Winding Issue on New Datejust

[KeepTicking]

Hi all,

I’m hoping some members with watchmaking experience can chime in here. I have a 31mm datejust that I bought new from an AD less than a year ago, when I wind it manually it has a very “gritty” feel to it making it fairly difficult to wind. The best way to describe the feeling is that the movement feels like it has sand in it. The issue is present from the first turn of the crown after the watch has died, so definitely not the clutch that protects the movement from over winding. The issue is recent, it wound perfectly smoothly prior to about three weeks ago.

One point to note, I had my watchmaker swap the dial on this watch after I bought it, so I did void the warranty and any repair would be out of my pocket, if necessary I would send it to Rik at Time Care Inc.

Hopefully some of those with technical expertise can weigh in here. Thanks in advance!!

[Pandacat]

The same thing happened with my OP39. This isn’t the first time i heard about this “issue.” There are a couple of threads that i have stumbled across with this same topic. I am actually hoping a watchmaker can chime in about this.

Mine keeps perfectly great time, about 1.4 seconds fast per day. When i adjust the time the gritty feel isnt there. Only when i go to wind it. Recently i have stopped winding manually and just rotate the watch a few dozen times. Seems to work fine. I plan on sending it in right before the warranty expires though.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by KeepTicking

Hi all,

I’m hoping some members with watchmaking experience can chime in here. I have a 31mm datejust that I bought new from an AD less than a year ago, when I wind it manually it has a very “gritty” feel to it making it fairly difficult to wind. The best way to describe the feeling is that the movement feels like it has sand in it. The issue is present from the first turn of the crown after the watch has died, so definitely not the clutch that protects the movement from over winding. The issue is recent, it wound perfectly smoothly prior to about three weeks ago.

One point to note, I had my watchmaker swap the dial on this watch after I bought it, so I did void the warranty and any repair would be out of my pocket, if necessary I would send it to Rik at Time Care Inc.

Hopefully some of those with technical expertise can weigh in here. Thanks in advance!!

First there is no clutch all that happens when mainspring is fully wound it just slips in the spring-barrel.As long as watch is running and keeping good time myself would not worry about it, possible main-spring or spring-barrel is dry or not lubed correctly.

[KeepTicking]

Originally Posted by padi56

First there is no clutch all that happens when mainspring is fully wound it just slips in the spring-barrel.As long as watch is running and keeping good time myself would not worry about it, possible main-spring or spring-barrel is dry or not lubed correctly.

Thanks, Padi, I appreciate the insight and the correction on my description of a “clutch.”

I should also note that the watch keeps time within spec and setting the time or date via the crown feels normal, the issue is only when winding. I just want to be sure that wearing and/or hand-winding the watch will not harm the movement, if that’s the case then I will be thrilled.

[Bigblu10]

There seem to be countless threads lately about "gritty" feeling winding issues. Perhaps Bas the watchmaker can weigh in on this. And these all seem to be new watches. Definitely concerning. Is Rolex failing to properly lubricate new movements?

[Dr.Brian]

I would be concerned that the same “gritty” winding could be occurring with the auto winding and you are just not aware of it.
If it were my watch, I’d send it in for a service. It’s still under warranty.
My 12 yo Rolex is buttery smooth when wound. Though I should probably bring it in for a service and lubrication anyway after this long.

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brian

I would be concerned that the same “gritty” winding could be occurring with the auto winding and you are just not aware of it.
If it were my watch, I’d send it in for a service. It’s still under warranty.
My 12 yo Rolex is buttery smooth when wound. Though I should probably bring it in for a service and lubrication anyway after this long.

OP stated the warranty is voided due to a dial change by an indy watchmaker. He would need to pay for service out of pocket.

[KeepTicking]

Originally Posted by Dr.Brian

I would be concerned that the same “gritty” winding could be occurring with the auto winding and you are just not aware of it.
If it were my watch, I’d send it in for a service. It’s still under warranty.
My 12 yo Rolex is buttery smooth when wound. Though I should probably bring it in for a service and lubrication anyway after this long.

I have the same concern that if manually winding could cause damage then automatic winging could do the same. Also, I voided my warranty with a dial swap so a service is out of pocket, though I’m happy to do it if necessary (determining if service is necessary is the reason for my post).

Also, to further clarify “gritty,” it’s not only a tough feeling when winding but when it hits apiece of this gritty feeling, you need to apply a bit of additional force to break through the grit. Best way to explain is that it feels like there is sand in the movement, it’s gritty and rough to wind and then winding is halted due to a grain of sand stuck in a gear, once a bit more force is applied the gear pushes out that piece of sand and is gritty and rough until another grain of sand lodges in a gear and again halts winding until additional force is applied. Obviously there is no sand in the movement, but this is the best way I can describe the issue.

[Dirt]

The gritty feeling happens more often than one may imagine.
My wife's DJ 31 has developed the condition but otherwise runs perfectly in all respects.
It can happen with a newly serviced RSC watch too where it went in relatively smooth and comes back with a gritty feeling when manually winding.
I have asked about it previously with the people in authority and they deem it to be within the realms of normal variation.
I have had a small handfull of freshly RSC serviced watches(including my own) to play with and they were all different when manual winding but assured it's all normal.
Some say it's a bit of drag on the Crown seals but i'm not at all convinced as it only manifests when manually winding and in no other Crown positions so I conclude that it's exclusively to do with the Main spring/Spring barrel assembly. This would account for variation between watches regardless of whether they're freshly serviced or not as Spring barrels/Main springs are often changed at service as well as being the major wear part.

Quite frankly I don't worry about these things any more as long as the watch is obviously running perfectly in every other respect. Besides, I don't put anything more than a few manual winds into a stopped auto wind watch other than to kick start it, then set it and put it on and away i go to let it wind itself up during the day.
So at the end of the day, a few gritty winds every so often aren't going to cause any harm in the grand scheme of things
My only recommendation is to relax

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by KeepTicking

I have the same concern that if manually winding could cause damage then automatic winging could do the same. Also, I voided my warranty with a dial swap so a service is out of pocket, though I’m happy to do it if necessary (determining if service is necessary is the reason for my post).

Also, to further clarify “gritty,” it’s not only a tough feeling when winding but when it hits apiece of this gritty feeling, you need to apply a bit of additional force to break through the grit. Best way to explain is that it feels like there is sand in the movement, it’s gritty and rough to wind and then winding is halted due to a grain of sand stuck in a gear, once a bit more force is applied the gear pushes out that piece of sand and is gritty and rough until another grain of sand lodges in a gear and again halts winding until additional force is applied. Obviously there is no sand in the movement, but this is the best way I can describe the issue.

You clearly have a deft touch and some good life experience
Not many notice such subtleties or have a good feel for them

[KeepTicking]

UPDATE: I decided last night to start winding until something happened, either when the grit went away or until the movement broke. I wound the crown for only about about 15 turns (I’d previously wound far more that that), it was super gritty and rough each turn, and then I felt a very slight pop and that was the end of the grit, perfectly smooth winding. This morning I wound it again, perfectly smooth.

I’m no longer concerned that it’s a problem requiring service, but now I just want to understand what was causing the rough winding to satisfy my curiosity.

[Pandacat]

Originally Posted by KeepTicking

UPDATE: I decided last night to start winding until something happened, either when the grit went away or until the movement broke. I wound the crown for only about about 15 turns (I’d previously wound far more that that), it was super gritty and rough each turn, and then I felt a very slight pop and that was the end of the grit, perfectly smooth winding. This morning I wound it again, perfectly smooth.

I’m no longer concerned that it’s a problem requiring service, but now I just want to understand what was causing the rough winding to satisfy my curiosity.

Hoping a watchmaker could chime in on this

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by KeepTicking

UPDATE: I decided last night to start winding until something happened, either when the grit went away or until the movement broke. I wound the crown for only about about 15 turns (I’d previously wound far more that that), it was super gritty and rough each turn, and then I felt a very slight pop and that was the end of the grit, perfectly smooth winding. This morning I wound it again, perfectly smooth.

I’m no longer concerned that it’s a problem requiring service, but now I just want to understand what was causing the rough winding to satisfy my curiosity.

That pop could have been the main spring breaking unfortunately.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by KeepTicking

UPDATE: I decided last night to start winding until something happened, either when the grit went away or until the movement broke. I wound the crown for only about about 15 turns (I’d previously wound far more that that), it was super gritty and rough each turn, and then I felt a very slight pop and that was the end of the grit, perfectly smooth winding. This morning I wound it again, perfectly smooth.

I’m no longer concerned that it’s a problem requiring service, but now I just want to understand what was causing the rough winding to satisfy my curiosity.

Good luck with that.
You now need to take it to your preferred watchmaker and potentially have it opened up

[Yess]

My OP 39mm isn't "gritty" but it is "clicky", which I assume it should be. The issue I have is it feels like it misses winding in places, as if there are dead spots during the turning of the crown where the winding process seems to "float". The crown is also really tricky to screw back down... the threads really don't want to catch.

The watch itself is as accurate as my phone if I wear it 10+ hours a day. After a week I may notice a second or two discrepancy, but that's about it!

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Yess

My OP 39mm isn't "gritty" but it is "clicky", which I assume it should be. The issue I have is it feels like it misses winding in places, as if there are dead spots during the turning of the crown where the winding process seems to "float". The crown is also really tricky to screw back down... the threads really don't want to catch.

The thread issue is par for the course with screw down crowns. The smaller the thread size the more problematic it can be.
Try back winding whilst applying contact pressure to feel the point where the thread will catch.

Regarding manual winding and the issue you have.
It's not uncommon for this to occur.
It will only happen once at the initial stage of manual winding.
If you wind back and forth it will occur more often.
Only wind forward to minimize the issue at the first wind.
There's a number of things going on in there when an Auto wind watch is manually wound. The mechanism that facilitates the manual wind process swings across to make it happen as it only needs to be engaged when the Winding crown is in the first position. This mechanism may not fully engage at all times, thus the feeling of not winding or a bit of a skip before fully engaging.

[Yess]

Originally Posted by Dirt

The thread issue is par for the course with screw down crowns. The smaller the thread size the more problematic it can be.
Try back winding whilst applying contact pressure to feel the point where the thread will catch.

Regarding manual winding and the issue you have.
It's not uncommon for this to occur.
It will only happen once at the initial stage of manual winding.
If you wind back and forth it will occur more often.
Only wind forward to minimize the issue at the first wind.
There's a number of things going on in there when an Auto wind watch is manually wound. The mechanism that facilitates the manual wind process swings across to make it happen as it only needs to be engaged when the Winding crown is in the first position. This mechanism may not fully engage at all times, thus the feeling of not winding or a bit of a skip before fully engaging.

Thanks for following up - I appreciate the tips

[Yachtbuoy]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

That pop could have been the main spring breaking unfortunately.

Not on an automatic movement. If the mainspring had broken, the watch wouldn’t work

[Pandacat]

Originally Posted by KeepTicking

UPDATE: I decided last night to start winding until something happened, either when the grit went away or until the movement broke. I wound the crown for only about about 15 turns (I’d previously wound far more that that), it was super gritty and rough each turn, and then I felt a very slight pop and that was the end of the grit, perfectly smooth winding. This morning I wound it again, perfectly smooth.

I’m no longer concerned that it’s a problem requiring service, but now I just want to understand what was causing the rough winding to satisfy my curiosity.

I’m no watchmaker but it is hard to imagine any popping sound being a good thing, even if it got rid if the gritty feeling. I’m not as brave as you to try it with mine. Can i ask what was it that made you decide to wind it until something happens?

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by Yachtbuoy

Not on an automatic movement. If the mainspring had broken, the watch wouldn’t work

In some instances it will, but the power reserve will be severely compromised. Either way, I would be concerned if I felt or heard a pop when hand winding a Rolex

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

In some instances it will, but the power reserve will be severely compromised. Either way, I would be concerned if I felt or heard a pop when hand winding a Rolex

Agreed.
But the OP is obviously a bit gung ho as well
So it was either going to fix it or f**k it but either way the warranty was voided due to the mod so the OP was going to wear it(no pun intended) regardless

[AlyRba]

This happened with my wife’s 31mm DJ as well. Same exact gritty winding feeling 3-4 months after buying the watch, as if sand was stuck with the crown. It was initially sent to Dubai Rolex service center as my wife was traveling. The watch came back with the same issue. Then it was sent to Rolex US service center by a local AD. This time it came back with the issue fixed. Reading this thread, it seems it may be a common problem with this movement recently.

[KeepTicking]

Originally Posted by Pandacat

I’m no watchmaker but it is hard to imagine any popping sound being a good thing, even if it got rid if the gritty feeling. I’m not as brave as you to try it with mine. Can i ask what was it that made you decide to wind it until something happens?

I just decided screw it, if something is wrong then it needs to be serviced anyway so let’s give it a go and possibly break it a little quicker.

For another update, the watch has been smoothly manually winding since my last post where there was a slight pop and the grit went away. I’ve timed it against time.gov and it’s running -1.5 seconds per day and power reserve is holding at about 48 hours. My wife is now wearing it normally (I’ve stopped playing and testing) so all seems fine, just really weird that the watch wound smoothly for nearly the first year of its life, then rough for a week, and now smooth again...