Blancpain first, or not?

[tedo]

Will be interesting to see how this plays out …

https://perezcope.com/2023/09/09/deb...fifty-fathoms/

[jonnythrust]

Seems a little like a rant by someone trying to disprove the moon landings

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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by tedo

Will be interesting to see how this plays out …

… on a Rolex forum

[Blansky]

I stole this from another site, but it debunks some myths about who had the first dive watch....

https://perezcope.com/2023/09/09/deb...fifty-fathoms/

[enjoythemusic]

Another highly detailed factual discovery / report. Will be great to see more accurate reporting by today's journalists, as in a sense they are writing today's history.

Look forward to a deep-dive into the 1960's marketing of three brands. Sixty years ago, so is just an item of history given today's manufacturers who create far higher craftsmanship and newfound ingenuity in horology.

[sski]

I must say- i always considered the Fifty Fathoms to be the 'first' dive watch & Submariner 2nd.

the article is compelling; would be interested to see a response from Blancpain.

[Chester01]

The Omega Marine came out in 1932, so beat both by a good margin.

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by jonnythrust

Seems a little like a rant by someone trying to disprove the moon landings

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Huh?

He presented solid evidence, despite a somewhat aggressive tone in various places.

Feel free to provide counter evidence.

[GB-man]

Seeing as I own two submariners I accept this theory and welcome it.

[dchang81]

considering how many brands have histories that are at best disingenuous, surprised anyone cares. hell blancpains tagline of there has never been a quartz blancpain and there never will be is a joke, they were killed specifically by the quartz crisis. I know I'm a cynical wanker that offers nothing but my useless opinion but I'm surprised people get excited by this earth shattering investigative journalism that reminds me of a school assignment

[John Doyle]

Who cares about all that, we know have the swatpain! or is it the Blancwatch!

[1William]

A great article.

[Chopper87]

Nice article, but the fact that he personally can't find evidence beyond the commercial release of a watch in 1955 says nothing.
He should've at the very least contacted Kingston/Blancpain and ask about their sources and claims before blurting this out.

Also some reactions to this article just make me laugh.

"Another highly detailed factual discovery / report. Will be great to see more accurate reporting by today's journalists, as in a sense they are writing today's history."

Come on, this isn't real journalism by a stretch...

[DoraTheExplorerII]

Superb article. I’ll be saving it with the ones that debunked the moon landing.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Chopper87

Come on, this isn't real journalism by a stretch...

All good and am sure Blancpain will provide details on their side. A debate may ensue, who knows? We might find a third party none of us realized could be the actual.... Maybe some guy in Waltham for all we know.

Frankly, doubt it will sway anyone one way or another about any brand in 2023.

Besides, thankfully there is an abundance of conglomerates, companies, micros, independents, etc. to choose from today. Heck, go ahead and build your own timepiece via parts easily available online.

[Chopper87]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

All good and am sure Blancpain will provide details on their side. A debate may ensue, who knows? We might find a third party none of us realized could be the actual.... Maybe some guy in Waltham for all we know.

Frankly, doubt it will sway anyone one way or another about any brand in 2023.

Besides, thankfully there is an abundance of conglomerates, companies, micros, independents, etc. to choose from today. Heck, go ahead and build your own timepiece via parts easily available online.

Maybe my wording was a bit harsh and I didnt mean to single someone out, sorry for that, and kudos for your reaction to it.

I mainly wanted to emphasize the one sidedness of the story and that there's probably more to it, and people should realize this is not a proper way to reach a conclusion.

[brandrea]

He never misses a chance to slam Panerai

[enjoythemusic]

All good, we're cool

Totally imho he generally does do research. Ok, sure, while I was not a witness am pretty sure at some point he asked Blancpain for data / info. I mean, c'mon, it's pretty basic 101 when doing research.

Does it wholly make even a smidgen of difference today commercially? Not really monetarily is my guess, just a historical clarification. Their marketing can easily be shifted to _____.

Yes, let's get a more transparent view of horology history. I love reading the NAWCC articles about table clocks, tall clock movements, etc. Lots of history STILL being discovered today.

[jonnythrust]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

Huh?



He presented solid evidence, despite a somewhat aggressive tone in various places.



Feel free to provide counter evidence.

If rolex was first, they would be marketing that fact

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[ajw45]

Really like the work from Perezscope and while this article seems extra angry, its probably about as biased as the other side. Some great points made but also Rolex is the king of marketing so while this might prove Rolex was right there in the running in 1953, I'm not sure this completely disproves Blancpain's claims. Afterall, 1953 is when Rolex also told the world they summitted Everest too.

Just like today, Rolex marketing and presence absolutely dwarfed Blancpain's and just like today, when a watch was announced and when people actually received them could have been separated by months or years. Blancpain not having equal presence in watch media sounds about right.

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by jonnythrust

If rolex was first, they would be marketing that fact

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That's not really counter evidence any more than an assertion that Blancpain must have been first because their marketing says so.

Perezscope presented specific, verifiable evidence. Feel free to provide counter evidence. Controvert his particular claims.

[Jonadab]

Originally Posted by jonnythrust

If rolex was first, they would be marketing that fact

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Genau so ist es!

[asiparks]

"If this picture is indeed from 1953 as claimed, chances are Jeanneret was already wearing a Submariner prototype on his wrist. It is impossible to say for sure but even if it was a regular Oyster, it would have been good for diving."
Is how he describes the blurry object on the wrist of a gentleman in a fishing boat; and that seems to be the heavy-on-guesswork tone of the article...

He seems to be conflating public product launches of a dive watch named "fifty fathoms" with small runs of predecessor watches, intended intended to win military contracts
His statements as to patent filing are not strictly true- many companies will NOT file a patent until ready to launch commercially- patents are public and early filing tips your hand and reveals intention to competitors.

I like his articles generally, but this was light on facts and heavy on conjecture- He seems more to be railing against (mis)statements by Jeffery Kingston, than to be seriously investigating Blancpains' claims to be first.

Am I biased toward Blancpain ? Mildly, but I have also owned a couple of Subs and a Seadweller....and I think his statement "The Crown is the Crown after all" belies his own favor.

[Milou66]

If Blancpain produced watches or even prototypes for the French navy as early as 1953, or earlier, someone should be able to find a dated note, letter, drawing, some sort of written exchange or even one of these early watches. It is very possible that the Fifty Fathoms was developed over a year or a longer period; if so some evidence must exist somewhere….