Hello Peters! Question on ADs...

[Ecolon9696]

Don't post much but have been wanting to ask this for the last couple days.

Do all Pateks ADs and boutiques make you buy your way up to the Aquanauts and Nautilus as policy?

I started my Patek Journey couple of years ago with a Rose Gold Calatrava and been wanting to buy Aquanaut. The AD keeps insisting that Pateks rules is that these pieces go to 5+ piece history customer. They keep pushing for watches I don't really like and other brands and I always say no.

Any guidance advice or history on your prior purchase on how you scored your Aquanaut and Nautilus is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!


AD. Caribbean St Thomas
Purchase History Calatrava Rose Gold (which I really love) & some jewelry.

Is this

[dardeca]

Patek does not specify how the dealers allocate Nautilus and Aquanaut timepieces to customers. Patek is obviously the decision maker on application pieces, but that is it as far as I know. That said, with the demand for Nautilus and Aquanauts, it sounds like your local dealer is using 5 as its own internal cutoff, but that is not something Patek HQ would stipulate or somehow regulate.

[Gelateria]

Huge pile of bullshit. Your store doesn't even have the guts to admit this is their own decision?
Not that we can do anything about it, just play dumb and decide whether you wanna continue trying your luck or go grey

[MRBolton]

I thought that the CEO himself said that sports models, especially stainless, should not go to a customer as a first piece?

I think it's stupid, personally, but it appears Patek themselves are on board with it because they probably couldn't sell some of their watches at MSRP otherwise.

[Divingdeep87]

I have bought 10 watches from my AD only steel models - He promised me an Aquanaut as my first Patek this December. He really cares more about celebration or anniversary when it comes to the first Patek.

[unotaz]

It's all BS. My first Patek that I ever bought from my AD was an Aquanaut 5167R.

[value.target]

Originally Posted by unotaz

It's all BS. My first Patek that I ever bought from my AD was an Aquanaut 5167R.

Is this from the past recent years? or way before the Aquanaunt became a grail watch?

[unotaz]

May 2020

Originally Posted by value.target

Is this from the past recent years? or way before the Aquanaunt became a grail watch?

[drbarba1]

I am very familiar with this authorized dealer and have purchased many watches from them. Most recently they helped me with an application piece that took several purchases to be qualified for. Definitely there are criteria for these application pieces, but to get a sports model every authorized dealer has criteria based on supply and demand. If you do not like the idea of buying five, then I would explore the Gray market or look for another dealer. This particular dealer is very fair in my opinion.

[dchang81]

First patek i got was a 5167a from an AD, along with a 20% discount. Completely different planet now. I mean how many people tell a dealer that they only truly love these hard to get sports models (not saying you OP) only to immediately flip it as soon as they get it. There have been multiple threads about how only the jumbo or 5711 etc is the only watch I really like...and the poster is 60 years old it's like where were you 5 years ago when no one cared and everything was readily available? Again I'm not referring to your intentions, but it's difficult if not impossible for an AD to parse this out.

I suppose you can say I'm making excuses for the dealer, but as long as there's still a large premium on the Grey market for flipping, they need to make sure you're gonna put skin in the game too. I've talked at length with various ADs with respectable and honest people (there are plenty more who aren't), and the good ones are in a hard position trying to make people happy...it's not easy to distribute something they get two per model a year, someone's gonna get upset they didn't get xyz. Sometimes it's cheaper and easier long run just to go Grey if it's just one specific watch you're after

[Halothane]

Go grey dealer especially if it's a 5167a you are after. You will spend a lot less than buying jewelry and watches you don't want to keep.

[Ecolon9696]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

It's the 5164R the one that I'm after. AD called couple weeks ago saying that there might be an opportunity for me to get allocated this watch although these usually go to the 5+ extensive resume due to the fact that sometimes they want to move slow pieces blah blah blah.

I call bullshit but who knows. Maybe it's true. Maybe they haven't been able to move this piece.

I will keep everyone posted on outcome in the next few weeks!

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by Ecolon9696

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

It's the 5164R the one that I'm after. AD called couple weeks ago saying that there might be an opportunity for me to get allocated this watch although these usually go to the 5+ extensive resume due to the fact that sometimes they want to move slow pieces blah blah blah.

I call bullshit but who knows. Maybe it's true. Maybe they haven't been able to move this piece.

I will keep everyone posted on outcome in the next few weeks!

I wouldn't necessarily call it BS. I'd be surprised if any ADs have a 5164R unspoken for, or would have a difficult time moving it going down their list. If they are readily available that would be news to me and I'd be interested. Also those don't have a big premium so if you just want that and don't care for the relationship def go grey.

[Bmats]

There is no such rule. I got a 5168G without buying other Pateks first in past year or so. I expect a 5167a would have been harder since it’s steel.

[Ecolon9696]

AD just called again saying that if I buy a ladies piece I could be rewarded (No guarantee!) with an opportunity to purchase the Aquanaut. 😆 Jesus, these people are Savages!

[abrosz]

I have a nightmare experience with Patek. I approached a Patek AD about a year ago regarding a 5726a or 5212. Was told I'd have to "take a journey of the brand," if I wanted a 5726a. I asked what that meant and was told I'd have to buy multiple pieces from other lines first. No specific number mentioned, no spend guarantee, just keep buying and trust... Then they offered me a flipped Nautilus model for 2-3x retail. I replied with my disappointment and indicated I had no intention on flying to their store or doing business under such an arrangement.

The business responded that the saleswoman was mistaken, and could the watch manager call me? I provided my contact information, but requested that if he was going to tell me the same thing, I'd prefer he didn't call.

The watch manager calls me and tells me again that the saleswoman was mistaken, and please come to the store so he can introduce me to the brand in person. Two months later I fly to the store for a visit. I'm taken upstairs to a private "Patek" room and told again there was no pay-to-play arrangement and that he can offer me a 5212 or a boring rose gold Calatrava. His only ask in return was that I consider the dealer for all my other special occasion needs. Thinking hey, great, a 5212 just magically appeared, I can do business on other things under this arrangement. I went ahead and purchased my wife diamond earrings, necklace (spelled neckless by the fucking dumbasses), and a diamond tennis bracelet two months later along with the 5212.

Fast forward to beginning of the year. I've spent $73,000 with the dealer. I think we have a good relationship that does not involve pay-to-play, purchasing things I don't want in perpetuity, or financial exploitation. I again inquire as to the possibility of a 5726a or perhaps a couple other Rolex models. The guy won't get back to me. The sales associate from whom I purchased the diamond tennis bracelet won't get back to me. I finally speak with another manager who informs that...there is no way they'll allocate me a Nautilus or Calatrava without a "journey of the brand." Now I'm told I have to specifically purchase one Calatrava per year, potentially in perpetuity, with no guarantee the dealer will EVER deliver the watch. I have to "diversify my purchase history," because the watch and the jewelry wasn't enough diversification. All of this is to be done just for consideration of allocation. Just keep spending, but no guarantee.

Thank goodness for documentation that I had rejected all of this up front and in writing. I consulted my attorney who offered to get me in touch with an attorney in the AD's area. I told the AD that they had committed bait-and-switch fraud and misrepresented how they do business to get me in the store to start spending money under false pretenses. I then let the AD know that I was looking forward to dragging them into court a la Shreve and Co and naming them and Patek in a bait-and-switch scheme unless they either allocated the 5726a or gave me my money back in exchange for all the merchandise I purchased. I also emailed Patek, who said they'd look into it. Never heard anything back.

I ultimately got all my money back, but the slippery fraudsters made me sign an NDA not to specifically name them online or in public. Hence why you don't see what AD it was. I sent back the 5212. Couldn't look at it without being pissed. Purchased the 5726a preowned from SohAIS here on the Rolex forums.

Long story short, don't play these games. The AD is going to try to extract as much from you as it can get away with. While a Nautilus or Aquanaut is sold at a premium, the secondary market premium is going to be far lower than the premium the AD is going to try to extract from you. Be very careful dealing with this brand and its ADs.

[soxfan39]

Pretty simple to me. Just go grey and pay up the "market" price. Ridiculous to spend untold $$$ on stuff you don't want.

[dchang81]

Hah I must be beaten down too much, that doesn't seem too bad a request to be honest compared to many dealers ive visited. I'd say prob better to get it Grey if that's what you really want. If not, I say there are so many different awesome watches in that price bracket. I had a different pretty popular dealer straight up tell me 100k in jewelry for aquanaut, 150k for nautilus.

[rmlovett1]

Originally Posted by Halothane

Go grey dealer especially if it's a 5167a you are after. You will spend a lot less than buying jewelry and watches you don't want to keep.

Originally Posted by Ecolon9696

AD just called again saying that if I buy a ladies piece I could be rewarded (No guarantee!) with an opportunity to purchase the Aquanaut. 😆 Jesus, these people are Savages!

See quote above

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by abrosz

I have to "diversify my purchase history,"

WOS has a similar practice, at least where I have interacted with them. I purchased a couple of PPs and other brands, and after a few quarters of not purchasing, I inquired about the 5326G. I was told I would need to purchase other brands to regain the ability to purchase PP (even after purchasing multiple PPs from them).

OP, as others have stated, it is the ADs discretion to allocate the pieces they receive (outside of application pieces). It is better to go grey. The AD route is not worth it, in my opinion, especially with how soft the secondary market is. I finally purchased a 5326 grey and couldn't be happier—smooth transaction with no headaches or hoops to jump through.

[johnsonsxusfrt]

Originally Posted by abrosz

I have a nightmare experience with Patek. I approached a Patek AD about a year ago regarding a 5726a or 5212. Was told I'd have to "take a journey of the brand," if I wanted a 5726a. I asked what that meant and was told I'd have to buy multiple pieces from other lines first. No specific number mentioned, no spend guarantee, just keep buying and trust... Then they offered me a flipped Nautilus model for 2-3x retail. I replied with my disappointment and indicated I had no intention on flying to their store or doing business under such an arrangement.

The business responded that the saleswoman was mistaken, and could the watch manager call me? I provided my contact information, but requested that if he was going to tell me the same thing, I'd prefer he didn't call.

The watch manager calls me and tells me again that the saleswoman was mistaken, and please come to the store so he can introduce me to the brand in person. Two months later I fly to the store for a visit. I'm taken upstairs to a private "Patek" room and told again there was no pay-to-play arrangement and that he can offer me a 5212 or a boring rose gold Calatrava. His only ask in return was that I consider the dealer for all my other special occasion needs. Thinking hey, great, a 5212 just magically appeared, I can do business on other things under this arrangement. I went ahead and purchased my wife diamond earrings, necklace (spelled neckless by the fucking dumbasses), and a diamond tennis bracelet two months later along with the 5212.

Fast forward to beginning of the year. I've spent $73,000 with the dealer. I think we have a good relationship that does not involve pay-to-play, purchasing things I don't want in perpetuity, or financial exploitation. I again inquire as to the possibility of a 5726a or perhaps a couple other Rolex models. The guy won't get back to me. The sales associate from whom I purchased the diamond tennis bracelet won't get back to me. I finally speak with another manager who informs that...there is no way they'll allocate me a Nautilus or Calatrava without a "journey of the brand." Now I'm told I have to specifically purchase one Calatrava per year, potentially in perpetuity, with no guarantee the dealer will EVER deliver the watch. I have to "diversify my purchase history," because the watch and the jewelry wasn't enough diversification. All of this is to be done just for consideration of allocation. Just keep spending, but no guarantee.

Thank goodness for documentation that I had rejected all of this up front and in writing. I consulted my attorney who offered to get me in touch with an attorney in the AD's area. I told the AD that they had committed bait-and-switch fraud and misrepresented how they do business to get me in the store to start spending money under false pretenses. I then let the AD know that I was looking forward to dragging them into court a la Shreve and Co and naming them and Patek in a bait-and-switch scheme unless they either allocated the 5726a or gave me my money back in exchange for all the merchandise I purchased. I also emailed Patek, who said they'd look into it. Never heard anything back.

I ultimately got all my money back, but the slippery fraudsters made me sign an NDA not to specifically name them online or in public. Hence why you don't see what AD it was. I sent back the 5212. Couldn't look at it without being pissed. Purchased the 5726a preowned from SohAIS here on the Rolex forums.

Long story short, don't play these games. The AD is going to try to extract as much from you as it can get away with. While a Nautilus or Aquanaut is sold at a premium, the secondary market premium is going to be far lower than the premium the AD is going to try to extract from you. Be very careful dealing with this brand and its ADs.

Good for you! Did your attorney actually file a lawsuit or was the verbal threat of a lawsuit enough?

BTW This is exactly what 90% of ADs will do, and IMO Rolex ADs in the past 4-5 years have become just as bad or worse than PP ADs. In my experience AP has done the best job of reigning in this garbage behavior by dropping 90% of ADs and selling through their own Boutiques. AP is very transparent in terms of "the journey" and since they control the allocation directly they actually will deliver on their promise.

[FrançoisCzapek]

Stories like this make me hesitate to switch my "journey" to an AD. Even without bad faith, too many things can happen. The AD relationship could be withdrawn just when you are close to the front of the imaginary queue. A SA might quit or rotate (which can be a positive thing if he transfers to a store where he can allocate something to someone willing to buy a complication).

[unotaz]

While there are lots of horror stories and bad AD experiences, there are still good ADs out there. I am the perfect example.

March 2020: First purchase from my AD, a platinum Daytona (my first Rolex ever)
May 2020: First Patek, an Aquanaut 5167R
September 2020: First Nautilus, 5712A
.
.
.
.
.
4 years goes by, 32 Rolex (all sports models), 20 Patek (Aquanuats, Nautilus and Grand Comps only), a trip to Geneva to visit PP6 (all expenses paid by AD), and zero jewelry/other watch brands spend. A very happy customer

[FrançoisCzapek]

To be fair some of the amazing stories I've heard start from early 2020. Might not translate to people today!

[dardeca]

Originally Posted by drbarba1

I am very familiar with this authorized dealer and have purchased many watches from them. Most recently they helped me with an application piece that took several purchases to be qualified for. Definitely there are criteria for these application pieces, but to get a sports model every authorized dealer has criteria based on supply and demand. If you do not like the idea of buying five, then I would explore the Gray market or look for another dealer. This particular dealer is very fair in my opinion.

I don't think you understand the OP's question/concern. The dealer is saying that Patek HQ is policy is that a customer must buy 5 watches before a Nautilus/Aquanaut can be obtained. That is BS. That seems to be the store policy, which is their prerogative, but they shouldn't be passing it off as Patek HQ policy.

[unotaz]

Current market value has now shifted back to early 2020 levels. I would say it's about the same now as pre-covid days.

Good ADs are still out there. Are you a reputable local guy? Do you have a long history with other brands or stores? All of these factors comes into play.

Originally Posted by FrançoisCzapek

To be fair some of the amazing stories I've heard start from early 2020. Might not translate to people today!

[Divingdeep87]

Seriously guys what will you do if you get 2 watches a year of a model and 1000 people who wants to buy it? It’s not easy being a AD sometimes. Sad but true.

[FrançoisCzapek]

True, of course, which is why I want to gauge whether one should just concede one is not going to buy a new Patek every 2-3 months and not even bother getting in the AD queue.

[MRBolton]

Originally Posted by abrosz

I have a nightmare experience with Patek. I approached a Patek AD about a year ago regarding a 5726a or 5212. Was told I'd have to "take a journey of the brand," if I wanted a 5726a. I asked what that meant and was told I'd have to buy multiple pieces from other lines first. No specific number mentioned, no spend guarantee, just keep buying and trust... Then they offered me a flipped Nautilus model for 2-3x retail. I replied with my disappointment and indicated I had no intention on flying to their store or doing business under such an arrangement.

The business responded that the saleswoman was mistaken, and could the watch manager call me? I provided my contact information, but requested that if he was going to tell me the same thing, I'd prefer he didn't call.

The watch manager calls me and tells me again that the saleswoman was mistaken, and please come to the store so he can introduce me to the brand in person. Two months later I fly to the store for a visit. I'm taken upstairs to a private "Patek" room and told again there was no pay-to-play arrangement and that he can offer me a 5212 or a boring rose gold Calatrava. His only ask in return was that I consider the dealer for all my other special occasion needs. Thinking hey, great, a 5212 just magically appeared, I can do business on other things under this arrangement. I went ahead and purchased my wife diamond earrings, necklace (spelled neckless by the fucking dumbasses), and a diamond tennis bracelet two months later along with the 5212.

Fast forward to beginning of the year. I've spent $73,000 with the dealer. I think we have a good relationship that does not involve pay-to-play, purchasing things I don't want in perpetuity, or financial exploitation. I again inquire as to the possibility of a 5726a or perhaps a couple other Rolex models. The guy won't get back to me. The sales associate from whom I purchased the diamond tennis bracelet won't get back to me. I finally speak with another manager who informs that...there is no way they'll allocate me a Nautilus or Calatrava without a "journey of the brand." Now I'm told I have to specifically purchase one Calatrava per year, potentially in perpetuity, with no guarantee the dealer will EVER deliver the watch. I have to "diversify my purchase history," because the watch and the jewelry wasn't enough diversification. All of this is to be done just for consideration of allocation. Just keep spending, but no guarantee.

Thank goodness for documentation that I had rejected all of this up front and in writing. I consulted my attorney who offered to get me in touch with an attorney in the AD's area. I told the AD that they had committed bait-and-switch fraud and misrepresented how they do business to get me in the store to start spending money under false pretenses. I then let the AD know that I was looking forward to dragging them into court a la Shreve and Co and naming them and Patek in a bait-and-switch scheme unless they either allocated the 5726a or gave me my money back in exchange for all the merchandise I purchased. I also emailed Patek, who said they'd look into it. Never heard anything back.

I ultimately got all my money back, but the slippery fraudsters made me sign an NDA not to specifically name them online or in public. Hence why you don't see what AD it was. I sent back the 5212. Couldn't look at it without being pissed. Purchased the 5726a preowned from SohAIS here on the Rolex forums.

Long story short, don't play these games. The AD is going to try to extract as much from you as it can get away with. While a Nautilus or Aquanaut is sold at a premium, the secondary market premium is going to be far lower than the premium the AD is going to try to extract from you. Be very careful dealing with this brand and its ADs.

This is one of the most damning stories that I've seen on here. Did you return literally every item you purchased and get every dime you spent back?

I'd think that it would've been much less trouble just to sell you the 5726a and then them cut ties with you.

[abrosz]

Originally Posted by MRBolton

This is one of the most damning stories that I've seen on here. Did you return literally every item you purchased and get every dime you spent back?

I'd think that it would've been much less trouble just to sell you the 5726a and then them cut ties with you.

I returned every god damn piece of jewelry and the Patek complication for every single cent back. The mere threat of the lawsuit was enough. I had them dead to rights with my documentation of direct messages and text messages, and they knew it.

I honestly believe that Patek is fully aware of this behavior and to a certain extent directs it. A couple of these hucksters told me, "PATEK WANTS YOU to take a journey of the brand," and, "we kept our dealership because we do EVERYTHING that Patek asks of us." Its also pretty clear the ADs are sitting on a bunch of Calatravas and stuff that doesn't move, and this is their way of trying to sell it. Pretty shady stuff. Just be sure to ask a lot of questions and document your interactions in case things go south.