Marina Militare - homage

[Ultraman]

Hi All,

Any comments / opinions on Marina Militare homage watches? Anyone know the origins?


Sourced from Google:

[greekbum]

There are lots and lots of players in this field.You get what you pay for usually and while some are outright junk others are nice watches with swiss quality movements.I have a very nice pam homage that I like. I have a IWI marine diver nice watch for the money if you like the style
http://www.internationalwatchman.com

[Ultraman]

Originally Posted by greekbum

There are lots and lots of players in this field.You get what you pay for usually and while some are outright junk others are nice watches with quality movements.I have a very nice pam homage that I like.

Any pics to share with us? twit:

[watch-nut]

MM ae not hommage watches they are copyright infringment, a hommage watch to me is a watch designed in the style of a discontinued model not copies of current watches in production.

MM are currectly in very hot water and are being sued over copyright infringment, namely over the crown guard but also the use of Marina on the dial, in fact the sale of these through some forums have now been banned as i believe Panerai will also go after the sellers of these watches, although i am not sure how practical that is

IMHO i don't like any company that chooses to steel another companies inovation and design ideas and brand them as their own, Steinhart, Grovana, Alpha they all do the same and to me it is wrong!

[Ultraman]

Correct me if I'm wrong..Will Alpha watches be the same alike, where Rolex will be sueing Alpha for copyright infringment (in terms of design)?

Any comments, anyone?

[watch-nut]

Originally Posted by Ultraman

Correct me if I'm wrong..Will Alpha watches be the same alike, where Rolex will be sueing Alpha for copyright infringment (in terms of design)?

Any comments, anyone?

Depends if they break a patent, the crown guard system on a Panerai is patented which is where the main issue is i believe

I don't think Alpha break any patents but i might be wrong, design theft unless protected by patent, copyright or intellectual property rights is not against the law sadly.

Either way, when you make something to look like an existing design that morally can't be right IMHO

[Ultraman]

Thanks for comments, it's very interesting to learn!!

[mfer]

First off, your second pic is a REPLICA, not homage. Homages don't say Panerai.

So, here is the story as I know it. Panerai had a patent on the curved crown guard. The patent ran out and Panerai filed it for a copyright image. There argument is that the curved shape is their trademark symbol and cannot be used on another watch. I think it is just lawyers getting creative IMO. Their trademark symbol is the OP logo. But oh well. I really think Panerai should just let it go with the crown guard. As long as they don't put Panerai on the watch, it is just an homage. There is only one Panerai.

Regarding their Rad cases, people can do whatever they want with those legally. Panerai cannot claim that they made the cushion case at all.

"Marina Militare" is not copyrighted by Panerai. This is the "Navy" in Italy.

[Flaxmoore]

Originally Posted by Ultraman

Correct me if I'm wrong..Will Alpha watches be the same alike, where Rolex will be sueing Alpha for copyright infringment (in terms of design)?

Any comments, anyone?

Doubt it. Different movements, and really, nothing they copy is a design that hasn't been done a hundred times. Subs are everywhere, whether you say the first was the Fifty Fathoms or the Submariner. GMTs also, as well as Air-King derivatives.

[Trurolexer]

Very nice homage watch except that fuke watch.

[DS/B MINI S]

Originally Posted by Ultraman

Correct me if I'm wrong..Will Alpha watches be the same alike, where Rolex will be sueing Alpha for copyright infringment (in terms of design)?

Any comments, anyone?

I think Alpha and Invictia can be placed in the same group. Neither company has seen a design they wouldn't copy

[cody p]

i'm thinking... i'm wearing one of those and someone compliments me by saying: 'nice panerai'. how do i respond? i'd just rather have something that is what it is. just my opinion, don't get too wound up if you disagree:)

[greekbum]

I bought my IWI Marine Diver to see if I would like the Panerai size and look. After wearing it and having my watchmaker go through the movement I cannot see myself ever buying a Panerai.Its my beater and keeps excellent time.I like the watch for around $500.00 I have a nice watch with a SWISS movement.I cannot see spending another $3-4k for it to say Panerai. I am a Rolex guy and have an extensive collection I never got the Panerai thing?To me most are 1k watches

The Panerai homage mkt is so big because you can build yourself a comparable watch for under $500.00 the way you want it. Dial,hands,case, caseback options are limitless. I have no problem with this but the people that put Panerai on the dial need there heads checked.They are only fooling themselves.

[Flaxmoore]

Originally Posted by DS/B MINI S

I think Alpha and Invictia can be placed in the same group. Neither company has seen a design they wouldn't copy

Then throw Seiko, Timex, Citizen and even some Rolex on the fire, too. Sorry, can't play that game- if you disallow derivatives, then even the Rolex Sub has to go, as it's derivative of the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms.

Seiko "Sub"

Citizen "Air-King"

Timex "Sub"

Oh, while you're tossing "copies" out... What kind of car do you drive? Bet I can find one it "copies".

[Ultraman]

Originally Posted by mfer

First off, your second pic is a REPLICA, not homage. Homages don't say Panerai.

So, here is the story as I know it. Panerai had a patent on the curved crown guard. The patent ran out and Panerai filed it for a copyright image. There argument is that the curved shape is their trademark symbol and cannot be used on another watch. I think it is just lawyers getting creative IMO. Their trademark symbol is the OP logo. But oh well. I really think Panerai should just let it go with the crown guard. As long as they don't put Panerai on the watch, it is just an homage. There is only one Panerai.

Regarding their Rad cases, people can do whatever they want with those legally. Panerai cannot claim that they made the cushion case at all.

"Marina Militare" is not copyrighted by Panerai. This is the "Navy" in Italy.

Opps! I didn't realised it was a replica and didn't mean to post it. I'm a Panerai noob..

Thanks for information, interesting to learn about the Panerai's patent issue.

[DS/B MINI S]

Maybe, but don't Seiko, Timex, Citizen, and even Rolex have some original designs
I haven't looked at Invictia's line in years, but the last time I looked they didn't need to allocate much to the R&D budget.

BTW, I drive a MINI Cooper S

Originally Posted by Flaxmoore

Then throw Seiko, Timex, Citizen and even some Rolex on the fire, too. Sorry, can't play that game- if you disallow derivatives, then even the Rolex Sub has to go, as it's derivative of the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms.

Seiko "Sub"

Citizen "Air-King"

Timex "Sub"

Oh, while you're tossing "copies" out... What kind of car do you drive? Bet I can find one it "copies".

[cody p]

Originally Posted by Flaxmoore

Then throw Seiko, Timex, Citizen and even some Rolex on the fire, too. Sorry, can't play that game- if you disallow derivatives, then even the Rolex Sub has to go, as it's derivative of the Blancpain Fifty Fathoms.

Seiko "Sub"

Citizen "Air-King"

Timex "Sub"

Oh, while you're tossing "copies" out... What kind of car do you drive? Bet I can find one it "copies".

good point. there's a hoard of seikos and citizens that are very rolex-like with oyster style cases and bands. it's funny, i'll cut citizen and seiko slack for doing this, but then hammer other 'lesser' companies who do the same thing.

[Flaxmoore]

Originally Posted by cody p

good point. there's a hoard of seikos and citizens that are very rolex-like with oyster style cases and bands. it's funny, i'll cut citizen and seiko slack for doing this, but then hammer other 'lesser' companies who do the same thing.

Just as an honest question, why the dichotomy? The "lesser" companies have to start somewhere. Invicta, for example, has a pile of watches I've never seen anywhere else, alongside their obvious homages.

[cody p]

Originally Posted by Flaxmoore

Just as an honest question, why the dichotomy? The "lesser" companies have to start somewhere. Invicta, for example, has a pile of watches I've never seen anywhere else, alongside their obvious homages.

an honest answer is that i'm biased:) although it's also partly an issue of trust. i trust the quality of seiko and citizen - i don't trust the quality of invicta, alpha, zeno, et al...

[Flaxmoore]

Originally Posted by DS/B MINI S

Maybe, but don't Seiko, Timex, Citizen, and even Rolex have some original designs
I haven't looked at Invictia's line in years, but the last time I looked they didn't need to allocate much to the R&D budget.

BTW, I drive a MINI Cooper S

You mean you drive a BMW-made copy of the original Mini Cooper S.

As for Invicta... Russian Diver series, the SubAqua series (find me another chrono that can do 500M), the Sea Spider collection. Few if any of those have a big-name equivalent.