Rolex bubbleback dial coronet

[104peterb]

Hi all,

Just doing some research.

I've attached an image I've dragged off the internet.

I'm just trying to figure out the age of this dial? Is this a redial? Or is the coronet shown just a really early example? I haven't seen too many like this before, but have seen a couple. The crown appears to be a bit different than usual.

Also, I've noticed that on some bubblebacks the words "Swiss made" are non existent beneath the number 6. Is this correct with earlier versions?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Cheers

[R.W.T.]

Redial for sure.

[R.W.T.]

The early crowns were definitely squat, more like that but that dial is completely redone. No SWISS MADE, incorrect fonts, the crown is fantasy :-)

[104peterb]

I've also found this picture from the net that seems to show the exact same dial. How can that be?

Are you sure these are re-dials? The images come from completely different sources.

Also, as mentioned earlier, does no "Swiss Made" automatically mean re-dial?

Kind regards,

104peterb

[R.W.T.]

I do not believe any watches were sent from Switzerland without SWISS MADE, Fab. En Suisse or SWISS on them. Some people would like to believe that a few were...I'm not ever gonna buy that.

The font is wrong on both of those dials.

On the first one the crown looks like it was drawn by a jr. high student with a fountain pen and C H R O N O M E T E R looks really bad.

Rolex had some fairly dicey dials in the late 40's early 50's but that looks like a cartoon to me.

Here is a correct dial from the period.

[R.W.T.]

And a couple more.



A later one.

[crowncollection]

redial for sure

[104peterb]

Thanks for the replies all, I think I understand where you are coming from now. By the way RWT, that last dial you posted is a stunner. I'm really fond of that particular one. I don't suppose that's yours is it?

[R.W.T.]

It belongs to a friend in Japan now.

[104peterb]

Hi guys,

Had to carry this discussion on...

Just found this one on the bubbleback club website, and it's exactly the same as the one I originally posted - same font, same coronet, no "Swiss made". It's described as an early bubbleback.

Would be interested in any other comment you might have. How do you suppose each of these could be the same redial? Again, all photos are from different sources.

Cheers

[104peterb]

And here's another...

[adam78]

Well these are all early redials, and likely done with the same die used by one or several dial refinishers at the time. Definitely not factory original dials.

[R.W.T.]

Thanks Adam....I don't want to sound like a broken record.

[104peterb]

Cheers Adam. RTW I'm completely with you, I'm not disagreeing. Just trying to understand how these things occur that's all.

[R.W.T.]

There are only a handful of refinishing operations now. In the old days when mechanical watches were plentiful and dial refinishing was common due to most watches not being water resistant....(not as prevalent on Rolex) and also damage from radium burns....there were many operations going on across the country. Much of the work was hand done.

Theoretically the one guy or gal who was especially good might get the higher end dials. I have heard the dial folks say...something like...we'll give it to our Rolex guy...etc. They made the same kind of look every time.

Rolex NY ALSO sent dials out for refinish...sometimes rather than offering a new dial. Old service paperwork has a check box for dial refinish.

On less common sports dials like 6610 and 6202 and other 50's models that they didn't see so often and theoretically didn't have need to stock replacements for....I and some others have discovered a certain font and crown that were used by the refinisher in NY. They are never marked SWISS MADE or SWISS but they always look very similar. They are found on watches with RNY felt pen markings on the inside of the case back with some regularity.

It's just the same outfit doing the refinish work on that style of dial that you are seeing.

After a while you start to see things.

Some are very very very High quality.

[104peterb]

Hi again RWT/Adam,

Wondering if you could the deal with the numbers stamped on the back of these dials? Do they all have numbers on the back and is there a way to determine through these inscriptions if the dial is original to the watch?

Even better, is there a database that exists where one can look up a rolex watch serial number and find out what the watch should have looked like?

Please let me know if I'm living in cloud cookoo land!

Cheers,

Peter

[104peterb]

Sorry, was meant to say the following:

"Wondering if you could explain what the deal is with the numbers stamped on the back of these dials"

[adam78]

Not in my area of expertise...I've never disassembled a watch. But Tommy (RWT) might have some idea.

[R.W.T.]

Honestly I don't know what they mean.

I'm not sure anyone really does and I bet they have more to do with batch number than actual watches they were on.

[104peterb]

Ah right ok thanks, I thought they seemed a bit confusing and inconsistent

[motoikkyu]

If you get a multiple dials refinished nowadays, it will also be a consistent job: they will use the same template for the same dial, resulting in a bunch of redials that look very similar.

[tucsonrick]

fwiw, I have a Rolex from late 1940s; this Rolex was overhauled by Rolex Geneva in early 1960s and no one else after that. It has a dial without Swiss Made, etc. So this was probably some kind of Rolex replacement dial - replacement but still real Rolex I would guess.

[R.W.T.]

2 things. Rolex NY for one used to send dials out for refinish if they needed it and they did not have a replacement dial. It is a check box on their old paperwork.

That is still refinished and not service dial or original dial.

Rolex has also serviced old watches that already had refinished dials and have not replaced or refinished again those dials.

These are not service dials or original dials.

I still maintain that if it doesn't have some indication of SWISS or SWISS MADE or with tritium content designations depending on the model T SWISS T etc. it is not an original finish Rolex dial.