Platinum vs gold can someone explain the price disparity

[Javier1971]

I really don't understand why platinum pateks and well as other companies charge so much more for platinum watches. Years ago platinum cost much more then gold. These days platinum is about 950 us dolllars an ounce. Gold is about 1260 an ounce. Granted they use 18kt gold which is 75 percent pure which equals about 960 or so an ounce. Platinum in watches is 95 percent pure. Another words gold is worth more then platinum. For those of you who think platinum is harder to work with that's not true because I ask a refiner.

[JP Chestnut]

One explanation - pt is harder to work with.
A second explanation - luxury watch pricing has nothing to due with the cost of raw materials

[KarlS]

Loads of threads on this

[FeelingTheBlues]

Welcome to TRF,

Supply and demand methinks, there are probably more reasons but that's the main factor in my opinion.

Originally Posted by Javier1971

For those of you who think platinum is harder to work with that's not true because I ask a refiner.

So this one guy told you it's not true and you're simply going to take his word for it?

[Samui]

Originally Posted by JP Chestnut

One explanation - pt is harder to work with.
A second explanation - luxury watch pricing has nothing to due with the cost of raw materials

And to add you need more pt weight wise for the same volume of material.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Samui

And to add you need more pt weight wise for the same volume of material.

yes,

75% of Rolex gold is gold.
95% of Rolex Platinum is platinum.
Plus, based on gm/cc, you get a lot more grams of Pt.

[unknown]

The hardness is the most important
The material itself doesn't make much difference

But the time they need to shape the case and bracelet is terrible compared to the time they need for a gold watch

Also their tools are damaged after only a few watches

I don't remember the exact number but the difference was astonishing
Let's say they can make 100 gold watches using the same tools ( then the need new brushing/ polishing tools) when working on platinum they need to replace everything after 5 watches

Again, not sure about the numbers but the difference was unbelievable

[PJ S]

As Karl says, this subject has been discussed a number of times across the various forums.
Also raised on another forum — http://forum.tz-uk.com/showthread.ph...um-versus-Gold

[AK797]

Historically it is perceived as more expensive/rare/exclusive by punters so peddlers price this in. It will be many years of gold having a higher spot price for this perception to change.

[jon_jon]

As someone mentioned, platinum is harder to work with than gold. In technical terms, one difference is that the melting point of platinum is a lot higher than gold, so you need special equipment and technique to work with platinum.

[Tony64]

On a somewhat related topic, I've been told that a potential advantage of Platinum over gold is that it doesn't lose metal when polished (if done correctly).

For those that obsess over case scratches and require a polished perfect watch, the resultant loss of metal over time inevitably changes the shape and contour of a gold watch. With the greater density of Platinum however, the scratches that typically appear result from displaced metal, not lost metal. Supposedly a proper Platinum refinish can rearrange this back to original without loss of metal, although it is more difficult to work with and requires special equipment.

With gold, the metal is simply polished away until the remainder of the case is level with the scratch, resulting in lost metal with each polish.

Can anyone experienced in metallurgy confirm this?

[dysondiver]

how much is a ton of stainless ,, and brass
materials make up a very small fraction of a watches price ,,, notice i said price , not cost , or value.

[locutus49]

This is what I understand. On a molecular level the Platinum molecules rearrange rather than "let go" and fly away when polished. But I would like to hear an expert on this.

Originally Posted by Tony64

On a somewhat related topic, I've been told that a potential advantage of Platinum over gold is that it doesn't lose metal when polished (if done correctly).

For those that obsess over case scratches and require a polished perfect watch, the resultant loss of metal over time inevitably changes the shape and contour of a gold watch. With the greater density of Platinum however, the scratches that typically appear result from displaced metal, not lost metal. Supposedly a proper Platinum refinish can rearrange this back to original without loss of metal, although it is more difficult to work with and requires special equipment.

With gold, the metal is simply polished away until the remainder of the case is level with the scratch, resulting in lost metal with each polish.

Can anyone experienced in metallurgy confirm this?

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by jon_jon

As someone mentioned, platinum is harder to work with than gold. In technical terms, one difference is that the melting point of platinum is a lot higher than gold, so you need special equipment and technique to work with platinum.

I recommend you read my replies in the link provided earlier.

[T. Ferguson]

Also, platinum is about 34% denser than 18 ct. gold. There is significantly more platinum by weight in say a Platona than there is gold in a WG or YG Daytona.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by Tony64

On a somewhat related topic, I've been told that a potential advantage of Platinum over gold is that it doesn't lose metal when polished (if done correctly).

For those that obsess over case scratches and require a polished perfect watch, the resultant loss of metal over time inevitably changes the shape and contour of a gold watch. With the greater density of Platinum however, the scratches that typically appear result from displaced metal, not lost metal. Supposedly a proper Platinum refinish can rearrange this back to original without loss of metal, although it is more difficult to work with and requires special equipment.

With gold, the metal is simply polished away until the remainder of the case is level with the scratch, resulting in lost metal with each polish.

Can anyone experienced in metallurgy confirm this?

Originally Posted by locutus49

This is what I understand. On a molecular level the Platinum molecules rearrange rather than "let go" and fly away when polished. But I would like to hear an expert on this.

I’m going to call ‘bullshit’ on this.
Pt950 has a hardness value slightly less than regular 316L, irrespective of material density.
If we suppose for a moment that scratches to it are deformations rather than microscopic gouges, then for the material to be restored to it’s original shape, you’re talking about heating the material in order for it to effective re-flow.
Given what we know about the high melting point of Pt950, what do you reckon the temperature needs to be, such that the material softens sufficiently to self-level?

Sorry, but scratches are scratches, and polishing levels the surrounding material down to the valley of the scratch – it does not add material nor move it around.

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by PJ S

I recommend you read my replies in the link provided earlier.

Interesting discussion in the link you provided where you were a contributor to the discussion.

I am not a metallurgist or involved in making watch cases, but as far as I have heard, Patek melts some parts of the gold, platinum and SS metal in the case manufacturing process. They do start with a chunk of metal and cut the metal and process it with machine, but platinum is harder to work with the gold. I have heard SS is also harder to work with than gold, though it isn't reflected in a watch price.

Whether the price of a final product is from the cost of raw metal, manpower required to work on the metal, apecial machines required to work the metal and/or just manufacturer mark-up due to perceived value of a precious metal, it is probably a combination of all the factors mentioned.

[rolex_addict]

Originally Posted by Javier1971

I really don't understand why platinum pateks and well as other companies charge so much more for platinum watches. Years ago platinum cost much more then gold. These days platinum is about 950 us dolllars an ounce. Gold is about 1260 an ounce. Granted they use 18kt gold which is 75 percent pure which equals about 960 or so an ounce. Platinum in watches is 95 percent pure. Another words gold is worth more then platinum. For those of you who think platinum is harder to work with that's not true because I ask a refiner.

Just buy what you love bro! Don't waste your time trying to justify why a company charges more for platinum than gold. Some steel models due to their limited numbers cost more than precious metals! In fact one of the most expensive pateks was made from titanium. The grande master chime was made from rose gold due to probably better sound; 5004a more expensive than 5004p; you will never be able to master Patek philosophy 😂

[Solicitor]

Metal used has never been a consideration in pricing a specific watch. It's always the target market that dictate pricing. (At least for luxury pieces)

If metal is ever considered in pricing., how could this be a 25k US dollars watch?





Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk

[RussW]

Originally Posted by PJ S

I’m going to call ‘bullshit’ on this.
Pt950 has a hardness value slightly less than regular 316L, irrespective of material density.
If we suppose for a moment that scratches to it are deformations rather than microscopic gouges, then for the material to be restored to it’s original shape, you’re talking about heating the material in order for it to effective re-flow.
Given what we know about the high melting point of Pt950, what do you reckon the temperature needs to be, such that the material softens sufficiently to self-level?

Sorry, but scratches are scratches, and polishing levels the surrounding material down to the valley of the scratch – it does not add material nor move it around.

I agree with this, I think polishing removes metal no matter what. Not based on fact though, just my opinion.

[RussW]

Originally Posted by unknown

The hardness is the most important
The material itself doesn't make much difference

But the time they need to shape the case and bracelet is terrible compared to the time they need for a gold watch

Also their tools are damaged after only a few watches

I don't remember the exact number but the difference was astonishing
Let's say they can make 100 gold watches using the same tools ( then the need new brushing/ polishing tools) when working on platinum they need to replace everything after 5 watches

Again, not sure about the numbers but the difference was unbelievable

Bruno, I think you are 100% correct. Just type "machining platinum" into google and there are countless links to back this up. Platinum may not be harder than steel, but it is "gummy and abrasive", which wears machine parts out quicker.

One link, for example is here http://www.technology.matthey.com/article/22/1/2-12/

[T. Ferguson]

One other factor is that platinum was likely a lot more expensive than gold when Rolex started using it. That positioned the platinum models at the top of the hierarchy from the outset. Rolex isn't changing that marketing strategy just because platinum is cheaper. And besides, how often does Rolex reduced prices anyway?