Why do APs not hold their value as well or appreciate like Rolex or Patek?

[Baco Noir]

Originally Posted by jem7v

Uhhhh did you buy it for like 11k? lol

Pretty darn close.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by singe89

RBII, Schumi even the ceramic diver is holding pretty strong. It really comes down to buying right. I pucheased my 15400 before AP cut dealer margin and had a price increase. I can sell it now and make a small profit.

When was this? Dealer margins are still high and when did they increase prices? They seem to be slashing prices non stop on everything for the last 4 years.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by Baco Noir

Pretty darn close.

Well looks like I'll be getting my 15400 from Takuya.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by jem7v

Well looks like I'll be getting my 15400 from Takuya.

AP raised prices before he bought his. I remember because I was about to buy a 15400 from thanh at the same time and the price went up

15400s were 12000 asking BNIB on the forum a few years back.

[singe89]

Originally Posted by jem7v

When was this? Dealer margins are still high and when did they increase prices? They seem to be slashing prices non stop on everything for the last 4 years.

Will be 4 years next month. If I remember correctly there was 2 price increases around that time. AP then had a price decrease but cut dealer margins as well about 3 years ago. That was around the time I got my Pt 44mm because of the price drop.

[Xerxes77]

+1
If you buy it at a correct price AP hold value

[Colin W]

Originally Posted by singe89

RBII, Schumi even the ceramic diver is holding pretty strong. It really comes down to buying right. I pucheased my 15400 before AP cut dealer margin and had a price increase. I can sell it now and make a small profit.

Agree, especially those Schumi prices seem really strong at the moment
Oh and some of the QEII LE prices seem solid


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[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by benlee

A bit OT but isn't there some talk earlier on about an upcoming AP London boutique? Esp when the deal with Marcus of Bond Street felt thru and resulting in their largest AD in London ending the distributorship. What's the latest news on this?

I think almost every watch brand has dedicated boutique in London by now except AP.

Panerai, A Lange Sohne, AP, FPJ, Zenith, Grand Seiko still don't have boutiques in London. (The ones in Harrods don't count).


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[AK797]

Originally Posted by benlee

A bit OT but isn't there some talk earlier on about an upcoming AP London boutique? Esp when the deal with Marcus of Bond Street felt thru and resulting in their largest AD in London ending the distributorship. What's the latest news on this?

I think almost every watch brand has dedicated boutique in London by now except AP.

Yeah I thought after Marcus one was opening late last year but seems like it might happen this year or it might not.

[gummy]

Originally Posted by Hairdude1

I'll continue to buy AP bc I like the brand and and if I loose a little bc I bought right I am ok as I have enjoyed the time on my wrist. I consider it a win win

+1

Agree...

A lot to be said for wrist time enjoyment

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

Panerai, A Lange Sohne, AP, FPJ, Zenith, Grand Seiko still don't have boutiques in London. (The ones in Harrods don't count).


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That blows my mind. How could they have such an oversight? They all have them in New York sans zenith. What gives?

[mobster600]

It's the same analogy of buying a Toyota vs a luxury car. If you are concerned with resale value and maintenance costs, high end brands are not your cup of tea.

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by GB-man

AP raised prices before he bought his. I remember because I was about to buy a 15400 from thanh at the same time and the price went up

15400s were 12000 asking BNIB on the forum a few years back.

Wow If I only knew about AP a few years ago. I got my 15400 from an AD last fall with about 15% discount, I wear it heavily and have the battle scars to prove it. No way i'm getting back even a fraction of the difference I paid for it. But I do like the watch, only complaint is the lume is weak, but the style, wrist presence, comfort of the bracelet, she's definitely a keeper. I am hesitant to buy another Rolex because of the reasons stated above, the majority of the populous knows the brand and it's notorious with the jetset lifestyle, whether your rich or poor. Only a select few know what an AP, Patek, Lange, VC is, which is why I love my AP.

[IS250C]

I keep hearing in this forum that a lot of people buy Rolex and not AP, Patel, VC because they don't know about the AP..... I don't think it's true. I think the most of them want a prestigious watch and Rolex suits that requirement at a more affordable price compared to AP. These people are not watch lover and they cannot justify paying more for AP due to the better finishing, details and so on. I am almost sure in today highly connected environment there are a lot less ignorant people than we think.

[lhawli]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Since when was buying watches an investment vehicle? It is an expensive hobby. Watches are depreciating assets and should be treated as such IMO. Buy what you like and enjoy it. If you lose some money on it if you decide to sell it, think of it as the cost you paid for the use of it during your time of ownership. Life is too short and how much we could lose on a luxury item should be the least of our worries. Just my humble opinion..

I agree! I see the comment of "investment" being used loosely in the watch world! No watch or brand is a good investment generally speaking.

Are there exceptions, like the time I purchased a TT DJ II and sold it a year later for $200 more, YES! But I did not predict this and could not guarantee it either. And if you think about ROI, which is a function of time, you would have to factor in the cost of cash, which you tied up in a watch as well as inflation - there is no investment there! But generally speaking SS is always a safer bet than PM watches.

It's a hobby and a beautiful one, but also an expensive one! Unless you owned one of these SS PP that sold for over $1m.


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Rolex Submariner Date (116610LN)
Omega Speedmaster Pro (311.30.42.30.01.006)
IWC Pilot Mark XVIII (IW327001)

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by IS250C

I keep hearing in this forum that a lot of people buy Rolex and not AP, Patel, VC because they don't know about the AP..... I don't think it's true. I think the most of them want a prestigious watch and Rolex suits that requirement at a more affordable price compared to AP. These people are not watch lover and they cannot justify paying more for AP due to the better finishing, details and so on. I am almost sure in today highly connected environment there are a lot less ignorant people than we think.

Nah. It's because they don't know. The ones who want to show off, they always tend to have a very cursory knowledge based on superficial values. When you really get into the details on any topic you learn more.

It's like the person who buy's a ferrari to show off only to be shat on by the person who buys a pagani :). Not many people know about pagani though. But everyone knows ferrari.

Those same people get their minds blown when they find out an RM starts at 100k and can go to 1mil.

Every consumer good is like this. The mid-high end stuff that does insane intelligent marketing gets wide spread appeal, but with anything there is always the upper echelon that only the really informed will know about, or even have a means to attain.

But yes there are people who may know of AP, and think 6k on a rolex sub is good enough to show off with. They don't need to pay 12-50k on a steel watch by going with AP or patek, or even hublot for that matter.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by singe89

RBII, Schumi even the ceramic diver is holding pretty strong. It really comes down to buying right. I pucheased my 15400 before AP cut dealer margin and had a price increase. I can sell it now and make a small profit.

The RB2 in rose gold is still strong but not what it was. You can steal a ti right now.

[conkers]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

The RB2 in rose gold is still strong but not what it was. You can steal a ti right now.

Yes this is true. Seeing bids in the mid-30s on my ti RB2 (I want to upgrade to platinum version). 40+ used to be the entry point for this model. I sold one I owned a few years back at 45.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Defiancekofb

Wow If I only knew about AP a few years ago. I got my 15400 from an AD last fall with about 15% discount, I wear it heavily and have the battle scars to prove it. No way i'm getting back even a fraction of the difference I paid for it. But I do like the watch, only complaint is the lume is weak, but the style, wrist presence, comfort of the bracelet, she's definitely a keeper. I am hesitant to buy another Rolex because of the reasons stated above, the majority of the populous knows the brand and it's notorious with the jetset lifestyle, whether your rich or poor. Only a select few know what an AP, Patek, Lange, VC is, which is why I love my AP.

You aren't alone man. I bought mine post the price increase but secured around 25% off at a NYC AD. Lost about 3k flipping it but it's all in the game. I throughly enjoyed it and would do it again. I typically try to buy my AP LNiB now.

Originally Posted by jem7v

Nah. It's because they don't know. The ones who want to show off, they always tend to have a very cursory knowledge based on superficial values. When you really get into the details on any topic you learn more.

It's like the person who buy's a ferrari to show off only to be shat on by the person who buys a pagani :). Not many people know about pagani though. But everyone knows ferrari.

Those same people get their minds blown when they find out an RM starts at 100k and can go to 1mil.

Every consumer good is like this. The mid-high end stuff that does insane intelligent marketing gets wide spread appeal, but with anything there is always the upper echelon that only the really informed will know about, or even have a means to attain.

But yes there are people who may know of AP, and think 6k on a rolex sub is good enough to show off with. They don't need to pay 12-50k on a steel watch by going with AP or patek, or even hublot for that matter.

Idk man. I've been around the block and I'm not the only one who knows the stages of Rolex ownership.

1) Rolex is an expensive watch worn by rich guys.

2) Rolex is amazing but a true connoisseur wears AP, PP etc

3) Rolex is Rolex for a reason. I'm buying another one.

[lhawli]

Luxury wristwatches are products driven by "passion," which means emotion must be a core element of their consumption!

Otherwise, you're just in it for the brag!


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Rolex Submariner Date (116610LN)
Omega Speedmaster Pro (311.30.42.30.01.006)
IWC Pilot Mark XVIII (IW327001)

[Garybaldi]

Originally Posted by AK797

Yeah I thought after Marcus one was opening late last year but seems like it might happen this year or it might not.

I was at the AP service centre at Brooks Mews on Friday, and was told that they would be opening a boutique there initially, sometime this year, with a view to moving to a more central location later on. Visitors would be seen on an appointment only basis but could view and try a selection of watches.

Watches of Switzerland also told me that AP are increasing their prices in the UK by 5% on 1st March.

[Snow-Dweller]

Its all about buying correctly. I had a 15400 and an SS Dover for a year, sold them for almost exactly what I paid...

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by mobster600

It's the same analogy of buying a Toyota vs a luxury car. If you are concerned with resale value and maintenance costs, high end brands are not your cup of tea.

True or be smart and buy pre owned so that you don't get hit with the big depreciation. Same analogy with luxury cars and same goes for luxury watches. But that's the thing, for me I want my name on the papers not someone else.

Originally Posted by GB-man

You aren't alone man. I bought mine post the price increase but secured around 25% off at a NYC AD. Lost about 3k flipping it but it's all in the game. I throughly enjoyed it and would do it again. I typically try to buy my AP LNiB now.



Idk man. I've been around the block and I'm not the only one who knows the stages of Rolex ownership.

1) Rolex is an expensive watch worn by rich guys.

2) Rolex is amazing but a true connoisseur wears AP, PP etc

3) Rolex is Rolex for a reason. I'm buying another one.

Yeah I know what you mean, I have not totally sworn off Rolex, I saw a 116610LV recently and it's clawing at the back of my head.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by GB-man

You aren't alone man. I bought mine post the price increase but secured around 25% off at a NYC AD. Lost about 3k flipping it but it's all in the game. I throughly enjoyed it and would do it again. I typically try to buy my AP LNiB now.



Idk man. I've been around the block and I'm not the only one who knows the stages of Rolex ownership.

1) Rolex is an expensive watch worn by rich guys.

2) Rolex is amazing but a true connoisseur wears AP, PP etc

3) Rolex is Rolex for a reason. I'm buying another one.

I agree with 2 and 3. But I still think a lot of people buy rolex to appear rich. I'm not against rolex though. I like the all gold sub, all gold daytona, steel daytona, and all gold yachmaster. I'll probably own one of these at some point. Every collector should have at least one rolex.

[mfer]

To me many AP's don't appear to patina well (the cases). They are so beautiful when new but that bezel attracts so much. I'm basing this off of used AP's I've seen in dealer cases. I'm not an AP owner. To get a new bezel and fix it up is in the same area as new.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by jem7v

I agree with 2 and 3. But I still think a lot of people buy rolex to appear rich. I'm not against rolex though. I like the all gold sub, all gold daytona, steel daytona, and all gold yachmaster. I'll probably own one of these at some point. Every collector should have at least one rolex.

Buying a Rolex to appear rich ( and I don't think there is anything wrong with that ) doesn't really work in my part of the world anymore, since Rolex in some cities like Hong Kong and Singapore is actually common. Driving a really nice car and even better owning a big house is a way more effective means of doing that.

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by jem7v

I agree with 2 and 3. But I still think a lot of people buy rolex to appear rich. I'm not against rolex though. I like the all gold sub, all gold daytona, steel daytona, and all gold yachmaster. I'll probably own one of these at some point. Every collector should have at least one rolex.

You could make the argument with any luxury watch brand. I know people that have $10-20 million and they wear casio and drive a Honda. They simply don't care about materialistic possessions, but when they travel the world, they drop $10-20k on a one week vacation like it's nothing, many times a year I might add.

I also know others who are "watch poor" they have PM watches, but no liquidity in the bank account. If they ever had an emergency, they have to liquidate their some of their watches in order to pay the bills.

You could make the same argument with luxury cars, a lot of folks lease or rent their vehicles now. Unless you are privy to their financials you wouldn't know if they are truly "rich" or just pretending.

[racer24]

rolex has been executing their marketing and branding strategy to a perfection. asking most people about luxury watch brand, the first one usually comes to mind would be rolex, thus, creating much more demand for the brand than AP. the similar comparison can be made between base Porsche 911 and Nissan GTR. 911 is much more recognized by most people than GTR.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by benlee

Buying a Rolex to appear rich ( and I don't think there is anything wrong with that ) doesn't really work in my part of the world anymore, since Rolex in some cities like Hong Kong and Singapore is actually common. Driving a really nice car and even better owning a big house is a way more effective means of doing that.

I agree. You'd think because of the increase in wealth in the upper end at least that would push the market towards brands like AP, RM, hublot. But their resale just keeps going down instead for whatever reason.

Originally Posted by Defiancekofb

You could make the argument with any luxury watch brand. I know people that have $10-20 million and they wear casio and drive a Honda. They simply don't care about materialistic possessions, but when they travel the world, they drop $10-20k on a one week vacation like it's nothing, many times a year I might add.

I also know others who are "watch poor" they have PM watches, but no liquidity in the bank account. If they ever had an emergency, they have to liquidate their some of their watches in order to pay the bills.

You could make the same argument with luxury cars, a lot of folks lease or rent their vehicles now. Unless you are privy to their financials you wouldn't know if they are truly "rich" or just pretending.

This is true. What are PM watches? Excuse my ignorance.

Originally Posted by racer24

rolex has been executing their marketing and branding strategy to a perfection. asking most people about luxury watch brand, the first one usually comes to mind would be rolex, thus, creating much more demand for the brand than AP. the similar comparison can be made between base Porsche 911 and Nissan GTR. 911 is much more recognized by most people than GTR.

This is also true. Rolex does spend way more in marketing. It's the low hanging fruit. But then again, AP doesn't want to become like rolex. They want to be somewhat hidden from the mainstream. Otherwise, they wouldn't be as special. It's be like oh look there is another AP like people are with rolex. Though if you go to say Mykonos or Monaco in the summer you will think that, AP galore.

[Defiancekofb]

Originally Posted by jem7v

This is true. What are PM watches? Excuse my ignorance.

Precious Metals - Yellow Gold, White Gold, Platinum, etc. So from the outside, you see this person in question and think he's a big baller. But in reality not so much.