Porsche 991.2 GT3

[texex91]

Originally Posted by GSDLover

Many car brands do this, but interestingly Ferrari does not. It's MSRP only.

Well...it's MSRP to their bud who flips it right back to the Ferrari dealer with 50 miles on it and then they sell at $50k price increase. I know their game too well.

F-car dealers will also make 'potential buyers' buy a sharp depreciation car, like California, in return for a 'potential' allocation on 488...all games. Ferrari is actually one of the worst.

No different at the end of the day. End buyers get screwed and dealers line their pockets. More power to them.

[ChrisInCharlotte]

Originally Posted by texex91

They will sell every GT3 991.2 they make and have demand for more...not laughing.

The ONLY car I ever regret selling...

Been to CoA, it's an awesome track!!

[SC11]

Originally Posted by texex91

They will sell every GT3 991.2 they make and have demand for more...not laughing.

The ONLY car I ever regret selling...

Lovey arse Paul

[texex91]

Originally Posted by ChrisInCharlotte

Been to CoA, it's an awesome track!!

It's a blast of a track to drive

[GSDLover]

Originally Posted by texex91

Well...it's MSRP to their bud who flips it right back to the Ferrari dealer with 50 miles on it and then they sell at $50k price increase. I know their game too well.

F-car dealers will also make 'potential buyers' buy a sharp depreciation car, like California, in return for a 'potential' allocation on 488...all games. Ferrari is actually one of the worst.

No different at the end of the day. End buyers get screwed and dealers line their pockets. More power to them.

I've got a couple friends who have 488s and haven't flipped them back. And I have been offered a build slot for a 488 spider and I didn't buy either of my Ferrari from them. Different dealers operate differently, I guess. If you wanted a 488 when it first came out, yes you needed to be a "preferred" customer.

PS Would love to see a pic of your Mille. :)

[derekstlmo]

Originally Posted by texex91

Well...it's MSRP to their bud who flips it right back to the Ferrari dealer with 50 miles on it and then they sell at $50k price increase. I know their game too well.

F-car dealers will also make 'potential buyers' buy a sharp depreciation car, like California, in return for a 'potential' allocation on 488...all games. Ferrari is actually one of the worst.

No different at the end of the day. End buyers get screwed and dealers line their pockets. More power to them.

Thats exactly how Atlanta ferrari worked it. You had to buy a california sell it right back don't even take it off the lot to get a 488 when there first came out. I like the gt3rs the best.

[Grahamcombat]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

Ferrari has the best system in my mind. You earn the right to get a hot car allocation by being a Ferrari customer and owner AND driver. Buy a few used ones from the dealer first. They when you do get on "the list" you get your allocation at MSRP. When you are done you have to sell it back to the dealer if you want to remain on that list. If you flip the car, you are out.



They have figured it out, Porsche has not.

I'm just gonna take this quote and substitute 'Rolex' and 'Daytona' and wish.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Spartacus]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

This will be very interesting indeed. Lots of folks that claim they are "purists" really want the manual. The 991.2 manual is .5 second slower in 0-60. That is significant. We will see really how many purists there are the PDK is so much a far superior trans in every way other than that weekend cruiser that wants to feel connected.

How about the 911R prices. $200K sticker, selling for $450K right now yet the new .2 GT3 has the same engine and same trans just not the limited number. Will be interesting, grab the popcorn and save your pennies the 997's may just be coming down in price and you will get your wish.

It is incredible. In 2011 I was in the position to buy a preowned 997 GT3 but settled on an M3 for $ reasons. At the time I think it was 90-100k to get into a preowned GT3 with very low miles.

The transmission purists are hilarious. Reminds me a lot of TRF and this 5-digit, 4-digit debate.

I think what breaks my heart the most is that the GT3 is moving away from being a race car to becoming the car you buy to drive to Cars & Coffee. Speculators are buying these supercars and turning them into garage queens.

I think the car to target these days is the GTS, just low enough under the radar from the fashion buyer, and enough of a drivers car that you can actually enjoy it without a helmet on.

As much as I am annoyed with Porsche, they are making cars that are interesting and fun. Love the Miami Beach Blue color!

[s14roller]

Current gen GT3RS was one of the best cars I've driven...I'm sure next gen will be even better.

[Schmed]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

This will be very interesting indeed. Lots of folks that claim they are "purists" really want the manual. The 991.2 manual is .5 second slower in 0-60. That is significant. We will see really how many purists there are the PDK is so much a far superior trans in every way other than that weekend cruiser that wants to feel connected.

I'm on the list for the 991.2 GT3 and right now, my thinking is that I'd order the manual. The PDK is great, and faster in every way. But.... I really like the involvement and "challenge" the manual provides. Trying for the perfect heel-toe downshift.... I'm not racing for trophies, so if I give up a second or two per lap, so what.

But... it's a tough choice - the PDK is quite fun for an "auto"

Maybe it's like a great quartz watch (accurate, reliable, rugged), compared with a mechanical (less accurate, etc.). No?

[texex91]

Originally Posted by GSDLover

PS Would love to see a pic of your Mille. :)

There is a whole thread of pics--explore the site some

Originally Posted by derekstlmo

Thats exactly how Atlanta ferrari worked it. You had to buy a california sell it right back don't even take it off the lot to get a 488 when there first came out. I like the gt3rs the best.

Agree for tracking RS is fantastic.

[mjm1]

Just joined the forum and see this thread... two of my favorite things in one... watches and Porsches lol. Maybe this is a dead thread, but I agree, RS is a track monster. I was also offered GT3 - manual w/ PTS configuration. We'll see. Don't know if I want to go for it or not... its a seller's market though, so...

[Goin2drt]

Originally Posted by mjm1

Just joined the forum and see this thread... two of my favorite things in one... watches and Porsches lol. Maybe this is a dead thread, but I agree, RS is a track monster. I was also offered GT3 - manual w/ PTS configuration. We'll see. Don't know if I want to go for it or not... its a seller's market though, so...

Welcome. There are a few of us Porsche lovers on here. Wait till you see some of Dr Toms pics and threads.

[jw0n]

Ok, this is not a GT3 but I thought I'd just leave a picture here anyway........

[phalen302]

Originally Posted by Goin2drt

Ferrari has the best system in my mind. You earn the right to get a hot car allocation by being a Ferrari customer and owner AND driver. Buy a few used ones from the dealer first. They when you do get on "the list" you get your allocation at MSRP. When you are done you have to sell it back to the dealer if you want to remain on that list. If you flip the car, you are out.

They have figured it out, Porsche has not.

Exactly. Ferrari won't approve the sale of new car till you are on their good graces - have owned couple before. Most drive new ones for a season and then flip it for almost/slight below the purchase price.

Ford is running the same play for their new GT.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by jw0n

Ok, this is not a GT3 but I thought I'd just leave a picture here anyway........

Great shot. As good a Porsche as they make today for my money.

[locutus49]

Tommy, I have a question: is it true that even if you bought a car at invoice, the dealer will still make money with hidden fees, etc.?

Originally Posted by Tommyk

I worked at a high end dealer for 4 years, All markup a dealer adds to a car goes straight into their pocket. Its up to the GM of the store on how much or if they will even have a markup. If you have the time there are some dealers out there (doesnt matter if the are privately owned or publicly traded) but there are some who refuse to markup cars. This is unfortunately starting to die away since these ethics are typically found in old school owners who believe in customer service and they are rapidly selling and leaving the business.

A dealer may ask for a deposit of maybe $5k or $10k but $50k is ridiculous. But even if they say its list price today doesn't mean that in a year from now they can change their mind.

I quit the business but it anyone has questions or are looking for info feel free to reach out.

[Tommyk]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Tommy, I have a question: is it true that even if you bought a car at invoice, the dealer will still make money with hidden fees, etc.?

In a general answer, Yes. However its not really hidden fees that are profitable.
When people say hidden fees that usually applies to an average car like a Toyota, or chevy. I can't speak to that as much since I only worked in the luxury market. Each car is situational though. Meaning, some cars (Specific makes and then subcategorized by models) would have different programs or incentives.

Ill give two examples to make it easier. Both examples are a cash/finance purchase.

Porsche GT3 Has an MSRP of lets say $200,000. That car because it is a specialty car will have 0 (zero) incentives. It also won't get a factory allowance either. So true dealer invoice on a car like that is probably $175-$180k. that means when they sell it the dealer will stand to make the difference.

A BMW 3 series has an MSRP of $40k the true invoice on it is probably $36k. However depending if its last years model or if they have a promotion that month the dealer might be secretly be getting anywhere from $2k-$6k sometimes more in factory inventive money to help them move the units. Plus that dealer might also get a unit bonus that money which raises that value an additional $500-$1,000 per car and the list goes on an on.

Now the catch is sometimes the brand/dealer won't give out all of these incentives unless you lease. The reason for that is explained bellow.
To make things even more interesting, the only hidden fee out there if you are dealing with a reputable dealer is interest rate on leasing.
Just like any financial industry, there is a buy rate and sell rate. If the dealer leases someone a car and charges them more than the lowest rate possible they will receive that money over the course of the year while you are in the car.

So what a lot of dealers will do is sell a car at "invoice" receive a few thousand from the manufacture and then get a couple hundred to a couple thousand back on the rate.

Again these principles are broad and each car is under its own circumstances at any given time.

A lot of the time its out of the sales persons hands, yes they want to make money but really they just want to move a unit. The dealers don't want the sales people knowing too much so they don't have a mutiny on their hands when they find out how much money certain brands give out after the fact a couple weeks or months after the car is sold.

[locutus49]

Wow. Thanks for the detailed info, Tommy. Very helpful, and I will keep that in mind when buying my next car.

Naturally I excluded Porsche, which makes a huge profit on the innumerable options, which could virtually cost as much as the car if you bought them all. I had a 911 and was shocked at the cost of some of the options, which in my opinion should come standard in a luxury car (leather seats, leather dash, the kind and style of the leather, deviated stiching, and so on.

Best regards.

Originally Posted by Tommyk

In a general answer, Yes. However its not really hidden fees that are profitable.
When people say hidden fees that usually applies to an average car like a Toyota, or chevy. I can't speak to that as much since I only worked in the luxury market. Each car is situational though. Meaning, some cars (Specific makes and then subcategorized by models) would have different programs or incentives.

Ill give two examples to make it easier. Both examples are a cash/finance purchase.

Porsche GT3 Has an MSRP of lets say $200,000. That car because it is a specialty car will have 0 (zero) incentives. It also won't get a factory allowance either. So true dealer invoice on a car like that is probably $175-$180k. that means when they sell it the dealer will stand to make the difference.

A BMW 3 series has an MSRP of $40k the true invoice on it is probably $36k. However depending if its last years model or if they have a promotion that month the dealer might be secretly be getting anywhere from $2k-$6k sometimes more in factory inventive money to help them move the units. Plus that dealer might also get a unit bonus that money which raises that value an additional $500-$1,000 per car and the list goes on an on.

Now the catch is sometimes the brand/dealer won't give out all of these incentives unless you lease. The reason for that is explained bellow.
To make things even more interesting, the only hidden fee out there if you are dealing with a reputable dealer is interest rate on leasing.
Just like any financial industry, there is a buy rate and sell rate. If the dealer leases someone a car and charges them more than the lowest rate possible they will receive that money over the course of the year while you are in the car.

So what a lot of dealers will do is sell a car at "invoice" receive a few thousand from the manufacture and then get a couple hundred to a couple thousand back on the rate.

Again these principles are broad and each car is under its own circumstances at any given time.

A lot of the time its out of the sales persons hands, yes they want to make money but really they just want to move a unit. The dealers don't want the sales people knowing too much so they don't have a mutiny on their hands when they find out how much money certain brands give out after the fact a couple weeks or months after the car is sold.

[texex91]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Tommy, I have a question: is it true that even if you bought a car at invoice, the dealer will still make money with hidden fees, etc.?

Of course they do. Invoice is nothing more than something to show customers to make them feel good.

There is holdback, trunk money, other volume incentives, etc...plenty of money to be made on cars.

Invoice is the place to start and work back from there on negotiation.

[Tommyk]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Wow. Thanks for the detailed info, Tommy. Very helpful, and I will keep that in mind when buying my next car.

Naturally I excluded Porsche, which makes a huge profit on the innumerable options, which could virtually cost as much as the car if you bought them all. I had a 911 and was shocked at the cost of some of the options, which in my opinion should come standard in a luxury car (leather seats, leather dash, the kind and style of the leather, deviated stiching, and so on.

Best regards.

No problem.

You're correct. Porsche is intersting in many ways and the option pricing is an example of that.
For the longest time Porsche was the most profitable manufacture in the world. Mostly because they built the 911 on the same platform for years, could add a ton of options on for big profits and then shared the 911 frame on a dozen of 911 variants. They got so big that they were nearly about to buy VW until the an interesting situation took place about 8 years ago.

But again, even myself included, I tend to forget that once the car is sold to the dealer, the manufacture has already made 80% of its money. So you can only imagine how much mark up the manufacture is producing in order to manufacture and design future product.

But they do have great resale value and I've read that at one point that California was the largest single location of more Porsches than any where else in the world.

[Ferdelious]

I think I'll stick with buying Toyotas after reading this thread.

[Tommyk]

Originally Posted by Ferdelious

I think I'll stick with buying Toyotas after reading this thread.

You would be surprised, Toyota still has nearly the similar pricing strategy as a a lower end BMW Audi or Mercedes.

Ive been able to negotiate $6k off a new Corolla just last summer for a friend. On a $25k car that a pretty substantial amount considering the price point and the dealer was still making money. Partial because Toyota inc. had an allowance program for that model of an additional $2000.

But that is more discount than i could get on a $34 Mercedes so its all relative to supply and demand.

My best advice I tell myself when buying a car is: Understand the market that you are buying into, do I love the car and decide if the financials work and then just enjoy the car.
The dealers need to make a little money and I'm ok with that. But just don't pay retail unless its a niche car.