ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
9 October 2017, 02:54 AM | #1 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,058
|
Panerai to Flip (maybe for Profit)! Need Advice ASAP
Hi All,
I pose this question to the Panerai experts. Have another chance to buy ANY Panerai (in stock) for 20% off and no tax. If purchased, I probably would sell immediately, although no guarantee as I’ve fallen in love with the brand. So, I’d like your opinions on which one you would buy for that purpose and why? I’m not looking at any special/limited editions, but was thinking a GMT perhaps. And please, I’m not interested in being called out for BS. If you doubt me, I’m happy to PM anyone, especially those in SoCal:). Thanks in advance. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
PANERAI Luminor 8 Days GMT “Dot” Dial (PAM00233) PANERAI Submersible (PAM01055) PANERAI Radiomir (PAM01385) ROLEX Sea-Dweller Mk1 (126600) ROLEX DeepSea D-Blue (136660) OMEGA Speedmaster “Silver Snoopy Award” (310.32.42.50.02.001) OMEGA Seamaster Diver 300M 75th Anniversary (210.30.42.20.03.003) IWC Chronograph Top Gun Edition “Woodland” (IW389106) |
9 October 2017, 03:05 AM | #2 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: PHILA
Posts: 1,720
|
I'm sorry but this question makes me
|
9 October 2017, 03:11 AM | #3 |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 34,645
|
Why not ask the dealer their thoughts on this plan?
|
9 October 2017, 05:18 AM | #4 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sweden
Watch: 1680
Posts: 1,835
|
Personally I think you can not sell with profit anything he has in stock even with a 20% rebate. Just have a look at jomashop and you will know what prices people will expect for different pieces in the US. They have like a constant sale on Panerai, they are really hard to move right now. Oh, and most people will probably get the same deal as you are getting from the dealer.
|
9 October 2017, 06:15 AM | #5 |
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 26,846
|
I’m sorry to say but the flipping days are over.
|
9 October 2017, 07:53 AM | #6 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,058
|
And you’re first on the board with the sarcastic, non-helpful statement. The dealer doesn’t care... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
PANERAI Luminor 8 Days GMT “Dot” Dial (PAM00233) PANERAI Submersible (PAM01055) PANERAI Radiomir (PAM01385) ROLEX Sea-Dweller Mk1 (126600) ROLEX DeepSea D-Blue (136660) OMEGA Speedmaster “Silver Snoopy Award” (310.32.42.50.02.001) OMEGA Seamaster Diver 300M 75th Anniversary (210.30.42.20.03.003) IWC Chronograph Top Gun Edition “Woodland” (IW389106) |
9 October 2017, 08:15 AM | #7 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,058
|
Quote:
Jomashop is grey. This is from an AD... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
PANERAI Luminor 8 Days GMT “Dot” Dial (PAM00233) PANERAI Submersible (PAM01055) PANERAI Radiomir (PAM01385) ROLEX Sea-Dweller Mk1 (126600) ROLEX DeepSea D-Blue (136660) OMEGA Speedmaster “Silver Snoopy Award” (310.32.42.50.02.001) OMEGA Seamaster Diver 300M 75th Anniversary (210.30.42.20.03.003) IWC Chronograph Top Gun Edition “Woodland” (IW389106) |
|
9 October 2017, 08:28 AM | #8 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Real Name: Bill
Location: Colorado USA
Watch: Rolex 16600
Posts: 214
|
People don't care about grey v. AD. They do care about the bottom line. 20% is not enough of a discount to be able to make money on flipping. You need 40% in order to make a clear profit. As was said, the market on Panerai has tanked. There are lots for sale on the classifieds here and fairly high too. But if you take the time to look at the ads they have usually been bumped 10 or 12 times on the high priced ones and most of the watches being sold aren't particularly special. Then again some do sell on our classified ads. Those are the ones that are priced low and are particular models most people want.
Definitely avoid the ceramic ones due to breakage problems and the fact that many won't buy them under any circumstances to due those problems. |
9 October 2017, 08:41 AM | #9 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 1,033
|
Don’t do it - I have AD offered most of his in-stock pieces close to his cost. They are not moving.
|
9 October 2017, 08:58 AM | #10 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Real Name: Chopped Liver
Location: S. Wales Valleys
Watch: Mickey Mouse
Posts: 9,924
|
If you’re open to providing us with details of the dealer via a pm then that tells me the 20% discount is open to anyone.
As had been said above, you’re not going to make a profit on flipping if you buy at 20%. Even the profit from buying at a 40% discount will hardly make it worthwhile. If you go ahead with this, you’re asking to get burned. I think you might have missed the point about AD v greys. You might be picking up from an AD but your intended market will not be. ADs and (some) greys offer a comeback if the watch develops a problem. What sort of warranty will you offer?
__________________
116520 Black, 116610 LVc, 116660 D-Blue, 116610 LNc, 116622 Blue, PAM359, PAM689, PAM737 "Why should you allow an AD to shake you down, just so you can buy a watch" - Grady Philpott Card carrying member of TRF's Global Association of Retro-Grouch-Curmudgeons
|
9 October 2017, 09:08 AM | #11 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Florida
Watch: SSDayt, 5711, 5170
Posts: 195
|
I'll play. Have him sell you a 671 with 20% off you'll make a profit no question. :)
|
9 October 2017, 09:38 AM | #12 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: PA
Posts: 1,033
|
|
9 October 2017, 10:42 AM | #13 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,058
|
Quote:
Does the warranty not follow the watch? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
PANERAI Luminor 8 Days GMT “Dot” Dial (PAM00233) PANERAI Submersible (PAM01055) PANERAI Radiomir (PAM01385) ROLEX Sea-Dweller Mk1 (126600) ROLEX DeepSea D-Blue (136660) OMEGA Speedmaster “Silver Snoopy Award” (310.32.42.50.02.001) OMEGA Seamaster Diver 300M 75th Anniversary (210.30.42.20.03.003) IWC Chronograph Top Gun Edition “Woodland” (IW389106) |
|
9 October 2017, 10:45 AM | #14 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,058
|
Quote:
I disagree or else no one would buy from TSs and everyone would buy from Jomashop and not worry about the warranty... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
PANERAI Luminor 8 Days GMT “Dot” Dial (PAM00233) PANERAI Submersible (PAM01055) PANERAI Radiomir (PAM01385) ROLEX Sea-Dweller Mk1 (126600) ROLEX DeepSea D-Blue (136660) OMEGA Speedmaster “Silver Snoopy Award” (310.32.42.50.02.001) OMEGA Seamaster Diver 300M 75th Anniversary (210.30.42.20.03.003) IWC Chronograph Top Gun Edition “Woodland” (IW389106) |
|
9 October 2017, 10:46 AM | #15 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,058
|
Quote:
BTW, earlier didn’t you say a 12% discount would be good. So a 20% is not, or just not to turn a small profit? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
PANERAI Luminor 8 Days GMT “Dot” Dial (PAM00233) PANERAI Submersible (PAM01055) PANERAI Radiomir (PAM01385) ROLEX Sea-Dweller Mk1 (126600) ROLEX DeepSea D-Blue (136660) OMEGA Speedmaster “Silver Snoopy Award” (310.32.42.50.02.001) OMEGA Seamaster Diver 300M 75th Anniversary (210.30.42.20.03.003) IWC Chronograph Top Gun Edition “Woodland” (IW389106) |
|
9 October 2017, 11:03 AM | #16 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Real Name: dp
Location: chicago, usa
Watch: panerai
Posts: 2,369
|
....lol, good luck, surely you’ll make a killing
__________________
dp just living the dream chicago, usa chgo_risti on IG |
9 October 2017, 11:18 AM | #17 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 5,345
|
20% would not move me, it's pretty much expected, a decent number, not great. No way turn profit with 20%. Like others stated, you need 40% to have the chance. Pam market pretty soft right now.
|
9 October 2017, 12:13 PM | #18 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Real Name: Justin
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,307
|
|
9 October 2017, 12:27 PM | #19 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Real Name: Fred
Location: NYC/NJ Metro Area
Watch: Rolex
Posts: 8,507
|
|
9 October 2017, 12:40 PM | #20 | ||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Real Name: Chopped Liver
Location: S. Wales Valleys
Watch: Mickey Mouse
Posts: 9,924
|
Quote:
Some people like the comfort blanket of being able to deal with a 'storefront' if things go wrong. Quote:
For the sort of reference that you're likely to pick up, most people will also get 20% off without too much difficulty. If they buy from a grey, they'll expect a little more; that's why people buy from greys, to save money (or pay a premium for a reference that's normally impossible to source). If they buy from private individuals such as yourself, then they're going to want more than a 20% saving. I was offered a shade over 20% off a 533 from a TRF trusted seller; this guy is well-established and has a stellar reputation. If he can offer a little more than 20% on a piece like that, you have pretty much zero chance of turning any sort of profit, however small, on whatever it is you pick up. If you need further convincing, you're a private buyer that's been offered 20%. If a grey buys from an AD, they're going to get a much better deal because of the volume of business between them. They can then sell a reference at 20% off and still make money. You've been told a few times already in posts above that you are not going to make a profit. I'm guessing you're not liking the answers you've been given and that's your prerogative. Go ahead and ignore the solid advice you've been given here, forge ahead and buy a watch. Again that's your choice, you're in your big boy pants now. Most buy Panerai for the love of the brand, not with an eye on future values. I wish you well. However, you really are asking to get burned so whatever you buy, make sure it's something you're prepared to live with. On that basis, go for a 233. Awesome piece that screams 'Panerai', is dripping with Panerai DNA and is the cornerstone of many a Panerisiti's collection.
__________________
116520 Black, 116610 LVc, 116660 D-Blue, 116610 LNc, 116622 Blue, PAM359, PAM689, PAM737 "Why should you allow an AD to shake you down, just so you can buy a watch" - Grady Philpott Card carrying member of TRF's Global Association of Retro-Grouch-Curmudgeons
|
||
9 October 2017, 01:07 PM | #21 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Watch: Lots
Posts: 4,469
|
I wouldn't buy, even at 20% discount, and expect to make money. Sounds like a good deal you have for yourself, pick the watch you like the most, buy it and enjoy it. As for profit...unlikely
|
9 October 2017, 01:07 PM | #22 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,058
|
Hilarious Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
PANERAI Luminor 8 Days GMT “Dot” Dial (PAM00233) PANERAI Submersible (PAM01055) PANERAI Radiomir (PAM01385) ROLEX Sea-Dweller Mk1 (126600) ROLEX DeepSea D-Blue (136660) OMEGA Speedmaster “Silver Snoopy Award” (310.32.42.50.02.001) OMEGA Seamaster Diver 300M 75th Anniversary (210.30.42.20.03.003) IWC Chronograph Top Gun Edition “Woodland” (IW389106) |
9 October 2017, 01:16 PM | #23 | |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 1,058
|
Quote:
Appreciate the reply, and that it’s informative without being douchey like a few in this thread. I am clearly just doing my due diligence but you would think by a few responses that I was the dumbest/worst guy in the world for contemplating this. I’m not not listening to people, but it is the Internet and everyone has an opinion, and I don’t just listen to a few. If it were Breitling or Rolex, I wouldn’t have to ask but since I’m new and quite unfamiliar with Panerai, I figured I’d pose the question. Looks like I’ll decline the purchase though based on the majority of responses. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
PANERAI Luminor 8 Days GMT “Dot” Dial (PAM00233) PANERAI Submersible (PAM01055) PANERAI Radiomir (PAM01385) ROLEX Sea-Dweller Mk1 (126600) ROLEX DeepSea D-Blue (136660) OMEGA Speedmaster “Silver Snoopy Award” (310.32.42.50.02.001) OMEGA Seamaster Diver 300M 75th Anniversary (210.30.42.20.03.003) IWC Chronograph Top Gun Edition “Woodland” (IW389106) |
|
9 October 2017, 01:26 PM | #24 | |
2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 34,645
|
Quote:
??? Nothing sarcastic in my comment, bud. The dealer knows his numbers and market, so, ask him, since he doesn't care, which model sitting in his stock he thinks he's willing to too heavily discount for you so that you can turn around and flip at a profit. Hope that's helpful for you. Good luck. |
|
9 October 2017, 01:26 PM | #25 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 108
|
I was under the impression that 15-20% off for an in stock pam was regularly attainable from AD (I got my 1312 at 16% and no tax from a socal AD). Personally I would only consider buying an unworn piece from a private seller if the discount was better than jomashop because of the risk involved. And I see jomashop selling many references >30% off.
|
9 October 2017, 01:41 PM | #26 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Real Name: Chopped Liver
Location: S. Wales Valleys
Watch: Mickey Mouse
Posts: 9,924
|
Quote:
If you want a Panerai, then buy one to love and to wear. Buying one to flip for a profit is dangerous and, quite frankly, a mug's game.
__________________
116520 Black, 116610 LVc, 116660 D-Blue, 116610 LNc, 116622 Blue, PAM359, PAM689, PAM737 "Why should you allow an AD to shake you down, just so you can buy a watch" - Grady Philpott Card carrying member of TRF's Global Association of Retro-Grouch-Curmudgeons
|
|
9 October 2017, 02:47 PM | #27 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Real Name: dp
Location: chicago, usa
Watch: panerai
Posts: 2,369
|
Quote:
__________________
dp just living the dream chicago, usa chgo_risti on IG |
|
9 October 2017, 09:09 PM | #28 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Real Name: Fred
Location: NYC/NJ Metro Area
Watch: Rolex
Posts: 8,507
|
Only way to separate opinion from actual results is to try. Buy a few models and try to arb the 5% and let us know in a few months how it works out?
Please keep in mind and on a 100k investment, 5% is only $5k. See if that is an efficient use of your time or, just look at it as a fun experiment with how much love is out there for the brand. |
10 October 2017, 04:16 AM | #29 |
2024 Pledge Member
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sweden
Watch: 1680
Posts: 1,835
|
Yes! That was my point, I am seeing this from a buyers view, I am in the market for a new Panerai myself at the moment. I can get 15-20% from an AD, about 30% from a grey, so I would expect an even larger discount from a private listing. The discount he is proposing is basically available to anyone at the moment on pieces in stock.
|
10 October 2017, 04:40 AM | #30 |
Banned
Join Date: Jun 2011
Real Name: Mick
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 1,524
|
I'm actively looking to buy a new Panerai and the prices I've been quoted so far have been about 22+% MSRP BNIB from a very reputable seller we all know.
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.