Concerned: Am I being scammed by a seller on TRF?

[jaisonline]

this entire thread along with a few others made me hesitate even dealing with a reliable trusted seller on TRF when cashiers check and wiring money were the only payment methods.

i feel terrible for my TRF seller because when i went to the bank to begin the wire transfer process, i ended up calling the seller and withdrawal from our verbal deal (the watch obviously wasn't shipped). i was just too worried since if anything went wrong, it's a big chunk of money to lose. I sell watches and other expensive items online so I can understand a seller getting upset. note: I accept paypal and credit card for some of my buyers at their expense. So i totally understand why some buyers only want cashiers check and wiring money as payment.

i know my seller is very upset with me despite me trying to make it right by mailing him a small yet sincere goodwill personal check for the trouble.

at the end, people do need to realize that folks are buying the seller and any unknown risk. while my seller is known on TRF and he was nice on the telephone, i still don't know him. there are times i rather pay the extra 2%-4% for using paypal or better yet, a credit card.

[smym18]

I just read all of this and feel for all of you who got scammed. Best of luck I hope you all get your money back.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by jvmartin

I still can't get over 6 pictures for a $17,000 item...

6 good pictures is plenty if the watch is truly like new. Different for watches that have significant wear or vintage.

For reference davidsw uses 8 images and has a multimillion dollar business.

[GB-man]

Sorry to hear of you guys being scammed. You really have to be careful. I want references of forum members I know or I want a copy of their drivers license and a video chat to confirm it’s them for unknown sellers.

A wire is only for a sure thing. New sellers have to be willing to go the extra mile to prove they are legit like meeting f2f, accepting pp etc

Established sellers are unlikely to accept PayPal unless they have a very large business.

[rollin62]

I'm a long time lurker with a tiny post count, and therefore zero references on here. However, I love looking at peoples pics, and reading their stories. I've also been watching the for sale section for years, waiting for the day I can actually afford the watch I want. Stories like this are so depressing. I feel bad for the people that got scammed, I really hope they can get recourse. People like this (the scammers) tarnish the entire for sale section with doubt to me (aside from the couple mentioned BIG sellers), but this forum is also supposed to be for the smaller guys to be able to trade or sell. I know its not fool proof, but some of the above suggestions should be looked into. A third party mediator, a hand written note (yes, can be photoshopped, but that would also give away some potential clues of fraud).

[cht]

Originally Posted by Syed117

I feel bad when this happens to people in this community, but the thought process behind a lot of these decisions makes no sense to me.

The scammer joined last year and has 100 posts? Come on guys.

I'm not saying that every person with that short of a history is a scammer, but it's just not worth it. Go with the big established sellers that have been around for years or at least members that have been around for years.

3-4 references? I would want 3-4 hundred. There are guys like that here.

Hope it works out OP.

I agree guys...

I feel bad for the OP and the others, but this was completely avoidable...and easily so.

DAVIDSW for example doesn't sell Daytona-C's for much more $$$ and gets them regularly....I don't understand why people are willing to spend $17k on a "luxury" item but then gamble with an unknown seller just to try and save a few bucks...

[jbk45]

All proper authorities have been notified, investigations commenced etc. bottom line is that this will likely be a total loss for both myself and 0007. Nobody here needs to understand anything about my decision making process on this - I readily admit it was poor and easily avoidable - that’s the bottom line. This thread will now serve as a cautionary tale for others. I wish it wouldn’t have been at my expense but here I am. If it saves others the heartbreak and financial loss, at least something good will have come from this otherwise terrible experience.

If anything miraculous happens, I’ll update the thread accordingly. I won’t be holding my breath. For those who reached out directly and via PM - thank you, the support is appreciated.

[seabreeze60]

Thank you for the update. We feel your pain!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fjweld]

Originally Posted by MinMay

+1

- send a message to their Linkedin and eBay account to make sure their account is legit.
- search their email, phone numbers, name, address, bank information, etc.
- for wiring, do it Monday/Tuesday (takes 1 day for clearance)
- make sure seller ship by Thursday OVERNIGHT 1 day service (no exception) in order to receive it by Friday. Make sure the package doesn't sit in a warehouse or truck during the weekend. Even AD is aware of this process.
- if seller can't agree to the terms when dealing with high value money, then no deal.
- avoid seller with no references or newbies or flippers. They have no knowledge in shipping or experience.

- for 20K watch, I would fly out there and get it authenticated by a professional...no exception. Then again, I would just buy it locally from a local with reputation. There are plenty of Rolex watches out there....

I agree with all these points, but why can’t you just FaceTime with the seller? I’ve purchased 4 pieces here and have FaceTimed/Skyped or F2F before any money was sent so I could see the person I’m doing biz with catch a screenshot of them as well as make sure the piece I’m inquiring about is in their possession

Sorry OP but your in a horrible situation that probably won’t get resolved in your favor. These cyber criminals have taken theft to a new level, use all resources you have to protect your hard earned cabbage rather than just trusting some references

[Fjweld]

Originally Posted by jbk45

Appreciate all who have chimed in. There is no doubt I should have been more vigilant - I usually am and suffice to say this is a terrible experience. Like many here, I have worked incredibly hard to be able to indulge in this hobby. I have bought and sold 5 watches here over the last 6 months buying from and selling to both known trusted sellers and regular TRF members who, like me, enjoy this hobby and trusted me to make good on my end by overcommunicating and providing all of the info needed and reassurances required to provide them with peace of mind because of my relatively low post count and recent membership.

I am not wealthy and have worked so hard to save this money. This is a significant loss for me. I have shared my experience here to save others the heartbreak and hassle.

Here is an update on my end:

As expected - the watch never came. As of last night he had emailed and texted asking me for my wire info so he could send me a refund. I haven't sent my info because I cannot risk compromising myself further by providing him with more info he could potentially use to defraud me further.

@watchguy007 and @vipereaper30 - contact me directly and let's see what we can do in terms of organizing our efforts.

Regardless of the outcome, a very bitter pill to swallow. I appreciate all of the insight and concerns by the community here and will share more once I am able. Please PM me directly if you have experienced any scams involving this seller so we can coordinate and document accordingly.

This tears me apart

[rickc007]

If you wired him money, wouldn't his bank have his proper id, camera footage ... other paper trail ?

Originally Posted by jbk45

All proper authorities have been notified, investigations commenced etc. bottom line is that this will likely be a total loss for both myself and 0007. Nobody here needs to understand anything about my decision making process on this - I readily admit it was poor and easily avoidable - that’s the bottom line. This thread will now serve as a cautionary tale for others. I wish it wouldn’t have been at my expense but here I am. If it saves others the heartbreak and financial loss, at least something good will have come from this otherwise terrible experience.

If anything miraculous happens, I’ll update the thread accordingly. I won’t be holding my breath. For those who reached out directly and via PM - thank you, the support is appreciated.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by rickc007

If you wired him money, wouldn't his bank have his proper id, camera footage ... other paper trail ?

See page 2 of this thread for a discussion on middlemen and the steps scammers take to cover their tracks.

[rickc007]

Thanks , didn’t read the whole thing.
Just puzzled that even the “legit” account can’t be held accountable,

This sucks though. Gotta be an electric/paper trail

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

See page 2 of this thread for a discussion on middlemen and the steps scammers take to cover their tracks.

[imgook]

I feel so sick after reading through this thread. I can't believe there is scum out there doing these things. I too have been scammed in the past, and it's such a tough pill to swallow. I hope some better things are coming to all you guys that have been scammed, and a something super shitty the culprits. Really hope there's some karma to help make the world just that little bit better.

[rouxeny]

Sorry man, that sucks. I was scammed once or twice years ago, but not for much money. It’s a terrible feeling.

[Brew]

Just awful. But these threads make me realize I'm not savvy enough to buy or sell watches here.

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Brew

Just awful. But these threads make me realize I'm not savvy enough to buy or sell watches here.

Well you certainly can’t sell any Larry.

[Brew]

Originally Posted by directioneng

Well you certainly can’t sell any Larry.

Yup, will change next year, but not to sell watches.

[1William]

Very sorry for the OP and others that have been scammed. No amount of after scam advise or "I would have done it different", helps. The money taken is real and the loss is real. If there is an upside, it should reinforces our diligence in transactions. The OP should also be praised for sharing a difficult situation with us. Best of luck to the OP.

[scarlet knight]

Very sorry to hear. Well I hope Keller has been banned and the mods reach out to Keller to help the OP. Another reason to only buy from the bigger, known sellers here. This makes it harder for all the smaller and up and coming sellers.

[smym18]

What's also is crazy is this scammer continued to use the same name, Keller, multiple times and somehow it worked.

[gaoxing84]

i got cheated as well by a certain TRF seller.

Still missing 4grand from our deal. but enough is enough, sick of his excuses. signed him up for FBI list and i hope that he regrets cheating me of 4k.

[smym18]

Originally Posted by gaoxing84

i got cheated as well by a certain TRF seller.

Still missing 4grand from our deal. but enough is enough, sick of his excuses. signed him up for FBI list and i hope that he regrets cheating me of 4k.

Can you share your story, either in here or a new thread?

[teqp]

Originally Posted by smym18

What's also is crazy is this scammer continued to use the same name, Keller, multiple times and somehow it worked.

It works if people that got scammed don't come forward like the OP. 2 other folks in this thread came forward after the fact. If they came forward sooner it might have prevented others from the same ordeal.

[116710er]

Originally Posted by smym18

What's also is crazy is this scammer continued to use the same name, Keller, multiple times and somehow it worked.

Just a guess but that might be because the "money mule"'s name probably has Keller in it somewhere (first, last, middle, whatever.) or has something to do with their location (Keller, TX for example..yes, I googled it.)

The best thing to do is out the money mule's information. The name on the wire, account number, bank, location, etc...This way when people get this info, they can (if they're diligent/through) google that info first and see what comes up. The more information that is out there, the better it is for others.

Originally Posted by 1William

Very sorry for the OP and others that have been scammed. No amount of after scam advise or "I would have done it different", helps. The money taken is real and the loss is real. If there is an upside, it should reinforces our diligence in transactions. The OP should also be praised for sharing a difficult situation with us. Best of luck to the OP.

I completely disagree about "scam advise" or "I would have done it different" not helping in this or any other "I've been scammed" thread. Of COURSE it helps. Maybe not the OP directly but it helps the people who have enough foresight to do a lot of research before sending off a ton of cash to some random person...hopefully they find this thread and heed the advice given by the various members.

I'll even double down and say that the advice is more useful then the condolences (as we OBVIOUSLY feel bad for the OP).


On a side note, I also get suspicious of sellers who don't immediately mark their thread "SPF" once a deal has been reached. To me, if they don't mark it, it looks like they're fishing for more buyers.

[JimHH]

Yes there is a Keller Tx. I have family there. I also inquired to Keller about their for sale post. When I requested certain information they never responded.

[function12]

You can always try to file a complaint here too. https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

I hope you get some kind of just out of this. That would be a very tough pill to swallow.

[MinMay]

Originally Posted by gaoxing84

i got cheated as well by a certain TRF seller.

Still missing 4grand from our deal. but enough is enough, sick of his excuses. signed him up for FBI list and i hope that he regrets cheating me of 4k.

I remember your incident...sorry you didn't get it back. I hope you ruin his life with the FBI and authorities. Sorry, I have no sympathy for scammers or thieves.

[116710er]

Originally Posted by function12

You can always try to file a complaint here too. https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

Unfortunately, that will not help in any way other than give the government some more data points for statistical use. I have a good friend who works on fraud crimes for the feds (extract from that what you will), let's just say that someone's $17K loss on a luxury item is pretty low on their "to do" list..not because they don't care, but they have way bigger cases to work on they just don't have the resources. Trust me, I WISH they had just a handful of people dedicated to working on these type of crimes (say anything over $10K) but that's just not going to happen.

[jbk45]

Originally Posted by function12

You can always try to file a complaint here too. https://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx

I hope you get some kind of just out of this. That would be a very tough pill to swallow.

I did this and everything else I could possibly do. The fact that there don’t appear to be any resources within law enforcement focused on aggregating/pursuing/investigating these cases would seem to embolden others to pursue similar wire fraud scams given that the apparent chances of being caught and/or pursued are so low. None of the authorities with whom I’ve spoken have given me anything in the form of direction or next steps. I’ve spent hours on the phone talking to as many people as I could across all of these agencies, while recovering from surgery no less, only to end up in the same exact spot I started in.

I’m going to explore other options and see if I can hire some kind of specialized investigator with expertise in digital/online forensics in an attempt to piece together all of the evidence and identify some kind of trail. It’s a long shot but the authorities have made clear that i should expect no such effort from them. Oakland PD told me there is one investigator that handles bank fraud for the entire city - they’re never going to look twice at my case.