AP price drop!?!?

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by breitlingherst

it's all a squeeze on ADs so they don't 'cheapen' the brand by offering huge discounts to move these gold pieces. the people that get really burned are those that purchased from the boutique at full MSRP.

Next time I turn on Sky news I'm expecting to see rioting outside AP boutiques and the shops will be on fire, as the cameramen zoom in on the rioters they will all be wearing gold APs!

[Yoda]

Originally Posted by Sam Philip

Marcus, they acknowledged that there was a price decrease in gold models

Thank you Sam. Price decrease is upsetting but life goes on. Crazy drop percentage wise, add the duty free shoppers and a slight discount and you have a value proof watch for years to come. Would be interesting to know what the platinum 44mm has dropped to.

[theseire]

Considering all the news, in Singapore, it's still hard to find a preowned piece at a really good price. I have not seen any 44mm RG at any of the AD's here yet

[mfer]

Ok, I just read the entire thread. *whew*

Depending on the "new" discounts given by an AD it may not be that large of an issue or not one at all. For people paying near MSRP it will be a issue.

Regarding the reportedly higher discounts in the UK and the minimal discounts. I would be LIVID. They need to be VERY careful with what they are doing here. Second time they have done a price reduction. This is making me very leary of buying an AP. I don't invest in watches, but I do like their ability to hold value on the secondary market so if I tire I can trade without a large impact. Price reductions like this can hurt the secondary market very much.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by h999r

Some people collecting watches for investment. But I'm not. I'm collecting because I love the look, the feel and quality , that's why I will keep on buying this brand. I'm thinking to buy the 44mm RG now because its much cheaper now, good time to buy.

I buy stock for investments, not watches.

The pure and simple fact is, when I buy stock, i buy it with the confidence that it won't go belly up after i buy it.

While I would say the same goes for any high dollar watch I buy, I don't expect the watch to shoot up in value after I purchase it, in fact, I always expect a *little* depreciation, but this kind of decrease is not fair to customers when they pay through the teeth for something.

AP has the balls to lower the value of their own product in the manner their doing.

The fact is, when you buy a watch, and the company devalues their own watch, it's not right. bad business.

In the normal used watch market, most high end *stable* watch companies watches will decrease another 20 to 30% from the actual purchase price you paid (unless you received an amazing deal to begin with then my figures won't apply). That's what you can expect to get back out of the watch when you want to flip it..

Now, add another 17% loss ontop of your current loss and thats what you will get out of your watch. Of course this only goes for the people like me who are getting shafted..

most people are happy because they plan on buying a new AP... This is a good thing..

But you have to keep in mind this is not a good thing for the people getting burned. end of story.

no one and I mean NO ONE, no matter how much money they have in the bank wants to take more off a loss than they have to when it comes to money.


If 60k patek was worth 10 grand on the second hand market, i guarantee you that they wouldn't be selling watches like they are now.. It's a numbers game and VALUE has everything to do with it. No one wants to buy something that in the end, isn't going to hold some kind of stable value and again, i'm not speaking on terms of investment or making money on buying a watch, i'm speaking in terms of holding a fair market value on watch.



AP needs to make this right for the people that are losing thousands of dollars here.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by vpr80

Except Patek went absolutely bonkers with their prices and just jacked up everything to simply astronomical levels. Compare the prices over the last few years and they went from being high-end expensive to I need a second mortgage for the most basic SS one. Forget the complications, no chance at those unless your net worth hits 10 figures.

agreed. and imagine how good higher prices are for the people who already own pateks.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by mfer

Ok, I just read the entire thread. *whew*

Depending on the "new" discounts given by an AD it may not be that large of an issue or not one at all. For people paying near MSRP it will be a issue.

Regarding the reportedly higher discounts in the UK and the minimal discounts. I would be LIVID. They need to be VERY careful with what they are doing here. Second time they have done a price reduction. This is making me very leary of buying an AP. I don't invest in watches, but I do like their ability to hold value on the secondary market so if I tire I can trade without a large impact. Price reductions like this can hurt the secondary market very much.

X2!! this is what i been trying to say all along, but you did it in a much shorter way

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by SubKing

I buy stock for investments, not watches.

AP has the balls to lower the value of their own product in the manner their doing.

The fact is, when you buy a watch, and the company devalues their own watch, it's not right. bad business.

In the normal used watch market, most high end *stable* watch companies watches will decrease another 20 to 30% from the actual purchase price you paid (unless you received an amazing deal to begin with then my figures won't apply). That's what you can expect to get back out of the watch when you want to flip it..

Now, add another 17% loss ontop of your current loss and thats what you will get out of your watch. Of course this only goes for the people like me who are getting shafted

But you have to keep in mind this is not a good thing for the people getting burned. end of story.

no one and I mean NO ONE, no matter how much money they have in the bank wants to take more off a loss than they have to when it comes to money.


If 60k patek was worth 10 grand on the second hand market, i guarantee you that they wouldn't be selling watches like they are now.. It's a numbers game and VALUE has everything to do with it. No one wants to buy something that in the end, isn't going to hold some kind of stable value and again, i'm not speaking on terms of investment or making money on buying a watch, i'm speaking in terms of holding a fair market value on watch.



AP needs to make this right for the people that are losing thousands of dollars here.

I could not have said it better.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by SubKing

AP needs to make this right for the people that are losing thousands of dollars here.

I don't disagree with you but I think you're losing sight of the fact that we, the WIS community, represent a very small percentage of overall AP sales. I think I'd be correct in saying that most folks who buy APs don't track the prices as we do. In fact, I bet most AP buyers will never flip their watches so the values on the secondary market matters very little to them. I'm not saying that makes it right but stupid decision or not, it is what it is.

[kilyung]

The price reduction didn't just hurt those who bought recently (although they'll feel the burn most intensely). It also erased any appreciable gains for those who bought gold pieces years ago. Talk about rolling back the clock. How many would love the opportunity to buy a $300 Rolex today? Obviously exagerated but essentially the same idea. The only winners are those who plan to pick up a gold piece in the future.

[breitlingherst]

can't you blame the ADs as much as AP for heavily discounting the watches and thus devaluing the brand??

How do you feel purchasing a $55,000 watch at the boutique (for MSRP), and the guy NEXT to you with the EXACT SAME watch purchased the watch at an AD for $38,500 (30% discount)?

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by breitlingherst

can't you blame the ADs as much as AP for heavily discounting the watches and thus devaluing the brand??

How do you feel purchasing a $55,000 watch at the boutique (for MSRP), and the guy NEXT to you with the EXACT SAME watch purchased the watch at an AD for $38,500 (30% discount)?

Discounts of that size don't exist in the UK.

[breitlingherst]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Discounts of that size don't exist in the UK.

how do you know? is it because you're not receiving those discounts?

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by breitlingherst

can't you blame the ADs as much as AP for heavily discounting the watches and thus devaluing the brand??

No more so than Rolex ADs for discounting gold pieces 30%. Would you say that discount strategy has contributed to devaluing the Rolex brand?

Originally Posted by breitlingherst

How do you feel purchasing a $55,000 watch at the boutique (for MSRP), and the guy NEXT to you with the EXACT SAME watch purchased the watch at an AD for $38,500 (30% discount)?

How many people buy Rolexes at full retail? A lot! So should the guy sitting next to me with a full price Sub feel bad because I got mine at 20% off? What is it we say all the time over on the Rolex side? "Just enjoy it" right? Yes, this was a silly decision. Yes, AP will lose some customers. No, it will not impact AP longterm.

[AshAP]

I can't rule that out of course, I have to trust my dealer who I have bought from for over twenty years. Anecdotal evidence on forums such as this one also backs up my statement.

[kilyung]

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd blame the recent trend of going to Boutiques as the culprit for this price adjustment. As we all know Boutiques usually discount at most around 5%. This situation creates a big price delta between heavily discounting ADs and their Boutiques. By lowering the price, they've closed the gap. As someone said, they're willing to take less margin for some pricing consistency.

IMO, AP should have done what Rolex did. Raise the dealer cost, which effectively decreases the discount percentage while preserving pricing stability. It would likely also have the effect of voluntarily shutting down some more ADs - especially the heavy discounters.

[breitlingherst]

Originally Posted by kilyung

No more so than Rolex ADs for discounting gold pieces 30%. Would you say that discount strategy has contributed to devaluing the Rolex brand?

Yes. OK so part of the Rolex name is devalued when most(???) of the ADs will offer a 30% discount on the gold models. no denying the ADs are contributing but their priority is moving the merchandize and making a profit.

How many people buy Rolexes at full retail? A lot! So should the guy sitting next to me with a full price Sub feel bad because I got mine at 20% off? What is it we say all the time over on the Rolex side? "Just enjoy it" right? Yes, this was a silly decision. Yes, AP will lose some customers. No, it will not impact AP longterm.

AP, Patek, Rolex, Mille, VC, JLC, WHATEVER...people will feel slighted when they learn that someone else got the SAME WATCH (included same warranty, condition, etc) for less money.

I dont think it was a silly decision at all by AP. squeeze ADs by decreasing their profit margin and make the watch 'more accessible' to the market. aside from us WIS, not many people know to ask for a discount and what's considered a good discount, so they just rely on the MSRP. Suddenly if a watch is 17% less, its competing with other companies.

[AshAP]

I don't think it's a good idea to make the brand more accessible! The last thing I want to see is a chav walking down the street in his shell suit and the same gold watch as me!

[breitlingherst]

ok well here's the issue. Whatever AP was charging for their gold models was too high and ADs had to discount them to move the stock. if people saw the "value" and were willing to pay full MSRP, the ADs would not need to discount.

so either a few people can justify purchasing the watch at full MSRP and the ADs suffer while these watches sit in their watchcase, OR the AD discounts, moves their stock, and stays in business.

You do also realize that we're talking about the difference between a $55,000 watch and a $45,650 watch (17% discount). I doubt any "chav" can suddenly afford the watch since its approximately $10k less.

[AshAP]

The difference in the UK is not 17% though! It's 33%!

[breitlingherst]

33%???? How much are ADs purchasing the watches for then??? Same 45% off but only 12% margin????

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by breitlingherst

33%???? How much are ADs purchasing the watches for then??? Same 45% off but only 12% margin????

I don't know that, but I collected my rgrc in December - the sticker price was £40040. I got 20% disc.
If I bought the watch today the sticker price for the same watch is £27590 BEFORE we even talk discount - I appreciate that there may no longer be discounts for gold models.

A 17% price realignment IS kind of understandable BUT 33% suggests that something has gone very wrong and as a result it undermines confidence.

[breitlingherst]

i agree with you, AshAP. 17% is like you have modestly out-priced the market and need to come down 17% to get aggressive. 33% is like you are on a whole another world....

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by kilyung

I don't disagree with you but I think you're losing sight of the fact that we, the WIS community, represent a very small percentage of overall AP sales. I think I'd be correct in saying that most folks who buy APs don't track the prices as we do. In fact, I bet most AP buyers will never flip their watches so the values on the secondary market matters very little to them. I'm not saying that makes it right but stupid decision or not, it is what it is.

I agree with you and yes it is what it is. The only down fall is, they will lose me as a customer for the confidence I had with AP is now gone.

If they continue to make moves like this, one lost customers will turn into many, because right is right and wrong is wrong.

One lost customer is thousands of dollars lost, imagine what 50 lost customers would be. If Audemars Piguet doesn't care, then that goes to show you their motives and service, regardless what the future of the brand may be.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by AshAP

I could not have said it better.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by kilyung

If I had to hazard a guess, I'd blame the recent trend of going to Boutiques as the culprit for this price adjustment. As we all know Boutiques usually discount at most around 5%. This situation creates a big price delta between heavily discounting ADs and their Boutiques. By lowering the price, they've closed the gap. As someone said, they're willing to take less margin for some pricing consistency.

IMO, AP should have done what Rolex did. Raise the dealer cost, which effectively decreases the discount percentage while preserving pricing stability. It would likely also have the effect of voluntarily shutting down some more ADs - especially the heavy discounters.

X2 I agree, should have adjusted dealer margins but left msrp alone.
Lets call it what it is. A price adjustment is a nice way of saying it. It in reality is a price and value depreciation.

[TSW]

Originally Posted by yoda

thank you sam. Price decrease is upsetting but life goes on. Crazy drop percentage wise, add the duty free shoppers and a slight discount and you have a value proof watch for years to come. Would be interesting to know what the platinum 44mm has dropped to.

60,950€

[Sam Philip]

Originally Posted by Yoda

Thank you Sam. Price decrease is upsetting but life goes on. Crazy drop percentage wise, add the duty free shoppers and a slight discount and you have a value proof watch for years to come. Would be interesting to know what the platinum 44mm has dropped to.

Heathrow duty free would be the best place to get a gold AP in the UK, we can get a RGRC for £22000 and RG 44 mm for £ 25568 with 20% VAT off. I don't think AD's inside the country can match that price with the price decrease

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Sam Philip

Heathrow duty free would be the best place to get a gold AP in the UK, we can get a RGRC for £22000 and RG 44 mm for £ 25568 with 20% VAT off. I don't think AD's inside the country can match that price with the price decrease

For 22K Im prepared to take myself on a holiday.

[DK3]

Another sad example of AP management. Add this to their constant limited editions and non-sense marketing with their inability their poor watch service and snobby attitude and you have pedigree brand name continuing to spiral downhill. If it was not for their luck of their royal oak success AP would not survive today. Thank goodness they have the rap stars and those seeking recognition for the royal oak status to keep them going.