How does the Corona Virus pandemic end?

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Lt Virgil Hilts

Yeah.....we don't have a 'blame culture' here.
(Whose fault is that?)


Just out of interest, who would you blame for this, disease and it's spread
out of the immediate area, after the initial discovery and outbreak?

Shit happens.

Literally?

I know. It's batshit crazy.

We are a connected world.

[jagwap]

Originally Posted by Lt Virgil Hilts

Yeah.....we don't have a 'blame culture' here.
(Whose fault is that?)


Just out of interest, who would you blame for this, disease and it's spread
out of the immediate area, after the initial discovery and outbreak?

Were the first couple of weeks handled perfectly? Maybe not, but then we will never know for sure what happened as this will never be fully disclosed. However very little was known about teh seriousness then. However by the time it hit Europe enough was know to act more proactively than was done. The same for many other major countries. But too many waited to see what happens. Too many valued their portfolios or votes to listen to what they were being told by teams of people employed to deal with this very eventuality.

If the source is bats, they are now outlawed completely along with most exotic animals in China. They were discovered a few years ago to be major carriers of coronaviruses by the recently disbanded Predict team, who probably never considered people would actually eat them! The pity is chickens and pigs have proved to be just as good at transmitting mutated viruses to us in the recent past. We seem to still like eating them.

Who do I blame? People. Not bats.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I have a feeling California is going to begin soon experimenting with the lessening of the lockdown.

As I mentioned yesterday Sonoma County north of San Francisco has since the beginning had people out walking, bike riding etc BUT doing the social distancing thing and some wearing masks in controlled stores (ones with control of crowds and protected employees) which there are quite a lot of. My wife bought a new phone the other day. Only one person at a time in the store etc.

It appears that a mandate is starting to go around to wear masks in any public space that puts you within a few feet of other people.

I believe we are going to get a slow return to SOME workplace activity that will include the masks and distancing to some extent. I'm guessing this is an experiment to see the spikes in the infection rate, to see if returning to the workplace is viable and to test if the concept that people have already been exposed and have some immunity.

As a controlled experiment this is probably a good idea.

Obviously high risk people should not be included and schools will still be closed.

Imagine if the US had started with a cover your face hole campaign, say, 2months ago?

Instead it was a convoluted and imho, disingenuous narrative, that was feed to the people, which means that some areas will have to FORCE mask compliance to get the opinion (that was seeded earlier by said bad narrative) to reverse.

[mountainjogger]

Originally Posted by superdog

Apparently.

Though, the more I look around, the more I realize it’s not just here.

Check out a car forum. Or yahoo news comments. Or any comments section anywhere. Everyone knows everything.

It’s really pretty amazing actually.

It makes me think I should simply stop talking and listen only.

Yes. It is amazing.

Here's the problem Seth. You and I do not always agree, but I credit you with at least as much common sense (and perhaps more) as myself and the other opposing views I respect on this forum, not to mention in the media. If you stop talking that will be one less common sense and sometimes opposing viewpoint for others to consider.

But your point is well taken. This is a watch forum for goodness sake.

Stay safe.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Imagine if the US had started with a cover your face hole campaign, say, 2months ago?

Instead it was a convoluted and imho, disingenuous narrative, that was feed to the people, which means that some areas will have to FORCE mask compliance to get the opinion (that was seeded earlier by said bad narrative) to reverse.

Yup. But it's old news now.

And don't forget the number of people led by some media types that said the whole thing was a hoax.

So now, we're at the "don't fix the blame, but instead fix the problem" stage I guess.

[Brew]

I find it a whole bunch easier to avoid fixing blame, when those who are responsible stand up as such.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Brew

I find it a whole bunch easier to avoid fixing blame, when those who are responsible stand up as such.

But we know that ain't gonna happen, so that solution has to be achieved in a different "venue".

[Hollie_Rollie]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Imagine if the US had started with a cover your face hole campaign, say, 2months ago?

Instead it was a convoluted and imho, disingenuous narrative, that was feed to the people, which means that some areas will have to FORCE mask compliance to get the opinion (that was seeded earlier by said bad narrative) to reverse.

Imagine if China contained the virus.

We can imagine a lot, it’s always easy playing Monday quarterback

[Brew]

[QUOTE=Hollie_Rollie;10538753]Imagine if China contained their virus.
/QUOTE]

This is a political statement that is not helpful, or accurate.

[Hollie_Rollie]

[QUOTE=Brew;10538763]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

Imagine if China contained their virus.
/QUOTE]

This is a political statement that is not helpful, or accurate.

I fixed it for you!

[Brew]

Originally Posted by Blansky

But we know that ain't gonna happen, so that solution has to be achieved in a different "venue".

Indeed.

Sorry for my delayed response, I had to take out some trash.

[Amazing Lady]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

Imagine if China contained the virus.

We can imagine a lot, it’s always easy playing Monday quarterback

[superdog]

Originally Posted by mountainjogger

Yes. It is amazing.

Here's the problem Seth. You and I do not always agree, but I credit you with at least as much common sense (and perhaps more) as myself and the other opposing views I respect on this forum, not to mention in the media. If you stop talking that will be one less common sense and sometimes opposing viewpoint for others to consider.

But your point is well taken. This is a watch forum for goodness sake.

Stay safe.

thanks brother. right back at you.

[Speedbird-1]

Originally Posted by jagwap

Were the first couple of weeks handled perfectly? Maybe not, but then we will never know for sure what happened as this will never be fully disclosed. However very little was known about teh seriousness then. However by the time it hit Europe enough was know to act more proactively than was done. The same for many other major countries. But too many waited to see what happens. Too many valued their portfolios or votes to listen to what they were being told by teams of people employed to deal with this very eventuality.

If the source is bats, they are now outlawed completely along with most exotic animals in China. They were discovered a few years ago to be major carriers of coronaviruses by the recently disbanded Predict team, who probably never considered people would actually eat them! The pity is chickens and pigs have proved to be just as good at transmitting mutated viruses to us in the recent past. We seem to still like eating them.

Who do I blame? People. Not bats.

I hoped, in vain, that Tiger Penises, Pangolin scales and Civet spleens etc, etc, could ALL shown to be responsible. Then maybe the we might save a few of our rarest creatures from extinction, and in doing so also expunge some of the witchdoctory that persists in 'Chinese medicine'.

[jagwap]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

Imagine if China contained the virus.

We can imagine a lot, it’s always easy playing Monday quarterback

Sure, that would be nice. But it was never going to happen. The scale of the problem and shut down was only realised after the Chinese New Year migration had started. Hundreds of millions of people on the move for 3 weeks. 1.5 million from Hubei province has already left on international holidays by the time the doors closed. China is very much an international country now. It is also far more aware of how bad things can get than the west, and how to act than the west because of SARS. As does Hong Kong, Singapore, Korea, Taiwan. How much worse would it have been of these countries didn't shutdown and 60% of 1.4 billion had it at a 10% or more death rate?

Do you really think the US, UK, Spain, Italy or most other countries would have moved faster and more effectively than China, given how we have watched them dither about in the last few months when they actually KNEW it existed and were told it is coming.

Really, people stop blaming anyone else you can find so you don't have to look internally.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

Imagine if China contained the virus.

We can imagine a lot, it’s always easy playing Monday quarterback

Sorry, but that is unacceptable. I have been an advocate of face coverings since DAY 1 of this #$%##$^.

Face coverings were / are an easy way to mitigate spread and the advice was not given due to ???

The playbook to deal with the virus was played on loop over and over and over again on the news from Asia during the early days. Wear Masks in public.

Rather than say...hey that's a good idea, even a scarf would be helpful...it was seen and responded to from a contrarian view and that was a mistake.

[jagwap]

Originally Posted by Lt Virgil Hilts

I hoped, in vain, that Tiger Penises, Pangolin scales and Civet spleens etc, etc, could ALL shown to be responsible. Then maybe the we might save a few of our rarest creatures from extinction, and in doing so also expunge some of the witchdoctory that persists in 'Chinese medicine'.

That trade will be illegal now. Much of it wasn't before, but a blind eye was probably paid for. But after this, I can see a change in altitudes. My current home Shenzhen has finally made eating cats and dogs illegal too.

Other attitudes are shifting too. I have only seen two people publically spitting in the last month. Usually it is regular sight.

[jagwap]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Sorry, but that is unacceptable. I have been an advocate of face coverings since DAY 1 of this #$%##$^.

Face coverings were / are an easy way to mitigate spread and the advice was not given due to ???

The playbook to deal with the virus was played on loop over and over and over again on the news from Asia during the early days. Wear Masks in public.

Rather than say...hey that's a good idea, even a scarf would be helpful...it was seen and responded to from a contrarian view and that was a mistake.

Agreed. It helps in a really simple way: it stops you touching your face.

It also reminds you constantly that you are not wandering around in a normal environment, so you are less likely to get complacent and touch doors and lift buttons with you hands, etc.

I'm wearing one 12 - 14 hours a day. It's a pain (behind the ears), but if I don't I can't go out, go to work, shop, eat out. This is after the lockdown is lifted where I live.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Sorry, but that is unacceptable. I have been an advocate of face coverings since DAY 1 of this #$%##$^.

Face coverings were / are an easy way to mitigate spread and the advice was not given due to ???

The playbook to deal with the virus was played on loop over and over and over again on the news from Asia during the early days. Wear Masks in public.

Rather than say...hey that's a good idea, even a scarf would be helpful...it was seen and responded to from a contrarian view and that was a mistake.

I'm not even sure that a blitz campaign to enlighten people would have worked.

You have a massive swath of the population that has been indoctrinated to not believe in science. Who believe in cynical people who make millions spreading rumors and outrageous theories.

You have politicians who have agendas and legacies to worry about, and businesses who were in denial about the extent of the damage.

So to say "we could have done better" is probably true but we are essentially in uncharted waters and if we get through this relatively unscathed on a percentage of deaths, we'll definitely do better next time.

I get the outrage, but getting a country to do anything when they all listen to different voices is a bit of a stretch.

[Tha Baron]

Originally Posted by superdog

Apparently.

Though, the more I look around, the more I realize it’s not just here.

Check out a car forum. Or yahoo news comments. Or any comments section anywhere. Everyone knows everything.

It’s really pretty amazing actually.

It makes me think I should simply stop talking and listen only.

You're right although it is what humans do... anything that's scary and unknown we make up a ton of shit to support our own comfort. Been doing this for thousands of years

[Tha Baron]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Sorry, but that is unacceptable. I have been an advocate of face coverings since DAY 1 of this #$%##$^.

Face coverings were / are an easy way to mitigate spread and the advice was not given due to ???

The playbook to deal with the virus was played on loop over and over and over again on the news from Asia during the early days. Wear Masks in public.

Rather than say...hey that's a good idea, even a scarf would be helpful...it was seen and responded to from a contrarian view and that was a mistake.

That's the problem with America - we manage to the absolute lowest common denominator. "Masks would scare people" they probably said... we cant scare people can we?

[twitch54]

Originally Posted by Hollie_Rollie

it’s always easy playing Monday quarterback

agreed and the weekends not over yet .............

[MichaelFlash]

Originally Posted by statsman

The fundamental basis of economic theory is that people make rational decisions. The key is to make sure that the best information is available.

Our economy will be fine as long as we resist any moves to make it more of a command economy, and protect individual’s property rights.

I can see that you are proud of your country’s response to this crisis and believe it to be a model for the world to follow. That’s great. I promise you that for the rest of my life, I will remember the PRC CCP contribution to solving this crisis and credit them accordingly.

Agreed.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Fleetlord

Sorry, but that is unacceptable. I have been an advocate of face coverings since DAY 1 of this #$%##$^.

Face coverings were / are an easy way to mitigate spread and the advice was not given due to ???

The playbook to deal with the virus was played on loop over and over and over again on the news from Asia during the early days. Wear Masks in public.

Rather than say...hey that's a good idea, even a scarf would be helpful...it was seen and responded to from a contrarian view and that was a mistake.

You and I went over this incessantly ....CDC says no, now CDC says yes, who knows what they say tomorrow. IT WAS ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by pickettt

You and I went over this incessantly ....CDC says no, now CDC says yes, who knows what they say tomorrow. IT WAS ALWAYS A GOOD IDEA.

But was not part of the mask problem, the fact they they wanted the medical community to have them and not the general public. They wanted social distancing for the general public.

AND the fact that they were/are simply not available.

I only have mine as left overs from the fires last fall.

[Watch This]

Everyone knows everything.

Best post yet.

[statsman]

I started wearing a mask a week ago, because I think that’s how it will be going forward. We have surgical masks, from a box opened ten years ago. My wife cautioned me about wearing them, because we are supposed to route masks to hospitals first (I doubt they would use an opened, ten year old box). I wear them anyway (too many people are concerned about other people’s business).

[Brew]

I found an old box of surgical masks too. I wear one to Wegmans. It makes my glasses fog and it "breathes" in and out like I'm already on a ventilator.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Brew

It makes my glasses fog and it "breathes" in and out like I'm already on a ventilator.

I used to date a girl that caused that reaction in me.

[Brew]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I used to date a girl that caused that reaction in me.

Lucky you! Social distancing makes my dating life seem a whole lot more normal . . . .