A. Lange & Söhne Sports Watch

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by JR16

29 boutiques in the world, so 4 people per boutique for first allocation doesn’t seem unusual


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Fair but that is still such small potatoes. I am a fan but have been in the Lange boutique in NYC several times and I am typically the only one in there when visiting. Seems insane.

I bet you could stop 100 people on Madison ave randomly and less than 5 would have ever heard of Lange.

[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Fair but that is still such small potatoes. I am a fan but have been in the Lange boutique in NYC several times and I am typically the only one in there when visiting. Seems insane.



I bet you could stop 100 people on Madison ave randomly and less than 5 would have ever heard of Lange.

The number for AP wouldn’t have been that much greater a few years go

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Watcheroo

The number for AP wouldn’t have been that much greater a few years go

Ahh those were the days!

Point taken

[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by GB-man

Ahh those were the days!



Point taken

Yes they were!

[AK797]

Originally Posted by benlee

Finally got to try out the Lange New Sports Watch at the local boutique. First impression, it definitely looks much better in person. It's well finished and well constructed and definitely has that "Lange DNA" if that's what people are looking for. Looks are subjective but I thought it was pleasant enough, although I thought Lange could have done a better job in making being more creative and making distinctive case. The controversial bracelet is also well finished and super comfortable, but again, there isn't anything very distinctive like the Royal Oak or Nautilus bracelet. I really like the "on-the-fly" bracelet adjustment which can be activated by just pressing the logo button on the clasp.

I don't think the watch deserved some of the flake it's getting out there and it's not a bad effort but neither is it so ground breaking as the hype would lead us to believe. Generally, it's a case of the more the hype, the worst the disappointment and the more the watch is critiqued / bashed as a result.

Will I buy one? At this price, No. Especially they are boutique exclusives ( for now ) and apparently only offer to customers with a purchase history.

Very fair summary, pluses and minuses, but in today's market the key is price and as you say at this price it is a pass for most enthusiasts, if it was a few grand less most would be tipped over into buying, and then you have some true momentum behind this piece and the family. At this price everything needs to be near on perfect.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by AK797

Very fair summary, pluses and minuses, but in today's market the key is price and as you say at this price it is a pass for most enthusiasts, if it was a few grand less most would be tipped over into buying, and then you have some true momentum behind this piece and the family. At this price everything needs to be near on perfect.

I don’t see price being the deciding factor on a £25K watch, if it was £22K it would make no difference to the decision to buy.

The piece either appeals or it doesn’t.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by AK797

Very fair summary, pluses and minuses, but in today's market the key is price and as you say at this price it is a pass for most enthusiasts, if it was a few grand less most would be tipped over into buying, and then you have some true momentum behind this piece and the family. At this price everything needs to be near on perfect.

In the last three years the U.S. equity markets have created $9 trillion of new wealth. If it's just about money, the momentum is there. For a watch of which probably only 400 will be produced over 2 years I doubt that perfection is required.
I think that this will be one of the more enjoyable watches to follow as it reaches the market.

[mongrelnomoad]

Originally Posted by cascavel

In the last three years the U.S. equity markets have created $9 trillion of new wealth. If it's just about money, the momentum is there. For a watch of which probably only 400 will be produced over 2 years I doubt that perfection is required.
I think that this will be one of the more enjoyable watches to follow as it reaches the market.

Eh.... it’s debatable about that “wealth creation”. But yes, I agree, at this point a 10-15% price differential isn’t usually the deciding factor. And aesthetic perfection is subjective.

[tryptobphan]

I just got back from the A. Lange & Sohne boutique in Costa Mesa and I was holding my own opinions until after I handled it in person.

I have a 6.5 inch wrist so it's quite smaller than the more typical 7+ inch wrists I often see in pictures and reviews. Because of this, I'm extremely picky about my watches being too large or not proportional to the width and size of my wrists.

With that said, I actually really liked the watch and how it all comes together. I can argue that the Royal Oak has a more interesting bracelet, but I would also say the Odysseus has a bracelet that is more comfortable than the Royal Oak's bracelet. The bracelet links just fold over the curvature of my wrists to embrace it. I don't have much hair on my arms so I never really have any problems with bracelets pinching my hair, however, I had bracelets from different watches in the past that don't conform so well to my wrists and leads to uncomfortable (though not deal breaking) experiences. This is why I always appreciate a watch that has adjustments. I appreciate the Rolex watches with microadjustments and especially the Submariner's glidelock system. This is why when I wear a sports watch, I typically only wear the Rolex Submarner or the Omega Seamasters. I even modified the Omega Speedmaster with a Seamaster clasp with microadjustments so that I can have the ability to length or shorten the bracelet.

The Odysseus has an amazing microadjustment system on the bracelet. I think the bracelet is already incredibly comfortable, but the clasp dials up the comfort and capabilities up another level that I don't think the other competing watches (Nautilus and Royal Oak) have. The Overseas has two extensions which are neat, but not as adjustable as the Odysseus.

The dial has an interesting texture to it that typically goes against the more elegant silvered argente dials of its many other models. It complements the more gruff and sporting nature of the Odysseus. I typically don't like blue dials because I tend to gravitate towards more dark dials or white dials when the honeymoon period is over. The blue dials tend to stand out too much for me. However, the darker navy blue textured dial can be extremely dark in certain lights and provides a hint of the blue nature in other lighting conditions.

The face itself is incredibly Lange. It has certain elements of the design elements used in other Lange models over the years. I was not sure what to think of the dial when it was unveiled, I thought it was too soft and classical in design to be a sports watch. But after handling this watch in person, I really like it. In fact, I love it. Unlike other watches which find ways to differentiate itself by looking more masculine or strange for the sake of strange in order to stand out, the Odysseus seems to use certain design elements from other models to keep its overall design languages intact. Similar to how the newest generation of Porsche cars have the wide light bar in the rear, Lange uses outsized windows to display the date and day. The alpha sword hands and subseconds dial made me feel at home with the watch since other models like the Saxonias typically use this understated, classic, and beautiful layout of the subsecond dial with alpha sword hands.

The movement is something of a treat for all Lange watches and this one doesn't disappoint. I was skeptical at first when I noticed the rotor wasn't the bright gold rotor I was used to for the automatic Saxonia models. But the new rotor with platinum weighted edges really added to the more sporty nature of the watch. Behind the classic dial design of the Odysseus belies a watch touch enough to within depth and shock from every day use. The 120M water resistance is just a testament to the design that this watch was made for every day use.

Again, this watch is on my 6.5" wrist and I think it fits really well.













Would there be anything I would change? Honestly, I don't think there's too much I would change. A part of me wishes the dial was just completely black since I love black dials on sport watches. A part of me wishes the movement was a microrotor since I've never seen a sports watch with a microrotor before (though this would most likely drive up costs even more). A part of me wishes the clasp has a nicer logo on it. Otherwise, I think the price is fine for what we're getting, the features it has are nice, and it's incredible to have a watch at this level of finishing being able to withstand punishment from every day use. I typically throw my watches into way more punishment than most people whether it's repeated door knob altercations, dropped watches, desk edge crashes, etc., so having a watch that can withstand all of that is great.

Also... I don't know why I even need to say this, but this watch has hacking seconds. Seriously, I know we are all spending a ton of money on watches, but I personally think it's ridiculous to spend $1K+ on watches and we don't get hacking seconds. Yet... a lot of us are spending $15K+ on watches that don't even have hacking seconds. I don't care that these watches have high finishing, Point de Geneve certification, historical significance and yet these are excuses for not having such a basic function.

So what's my verdict? I'm currently not in the market for a sports watch from the likes of Lange, Patek, Vacheron or another AP... but if I were in the market for one, I would shortlist the Odysseus and Overseas. I love the Overseas design and especially its bracelet with extension capabilities... but its size proved too big for my wrist no matter how many times I've tried it on. I could always get the 37mm Overseas but I don't like the subseconds dial being at the 9 o'clock position. However, the Odysseus is comfortable with its bracelet, can withstand punishment, and looks classy on my wrist.

Why am I not in the market for a sports watch? Easy. I want my next piece to be the Richard Lange. It's a simple and elegant model that I think perfectly accentuates my personality and style. However, I was fortunate to see the Odysseus in person and I wanted to share with all of you my experience with it. I sat there for a good hour playing around with it, so I'm thankful the team at Costa Mesa let me play with it for so long and being one of those enthusiasts who just can't seem to put a great watch down.

[DasKptl]

A great review!

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by tryptobphan

A part of me wishes the movement was a microrotor since I've never seen a sports watch with a microrotor before (though this would most likely drive up costs even more).

Patek 5712
Patek 5740/1G

But yes, agreed, it's rare to see that.

Also, thank you for such a great review!

[locutus49]

Tryptophan,

I did not want to copy your entire post, so hope you read this. Excellent reveiw. Hope you enjoy your Lange when you get it.

[tryptobphan]

Originally Posted by locutus49

Tryptophan,

I did not want to copy your entire post, so hope you read this. Excellent reveiw. Hope you enjoy your Lange when you get it.

Thank you. I just wanted to do a quick write up of the Odysseus since I had a chance to really play around with it. I really urge all of you to go out to the closest boutique of you have time to check it out. Overtime, I learned that some of the watches people (including me) criticized the most ended up being some of my favorites. So check it out and try it on your own wrist.

[Watcheroo]

@tryptobphan - thank you for sharing!

[billfredericks]

Excellent post. And I agree re: Richard Lange (esp. white gold boutique model).

[GreenLantern]

Oh, look, another german watchmaker dropped a new sports watch today (steel on steel bracelet)... And it actually looks good. :)

https://monochrome-watches.com/glash...-review-price/

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Oh, look, another german watchmaker dropped a new sports watch today (steel on steel bracelet)... And it actually looks good. :)

https://monochrome-watches.com/glash...-review-price/

15.6mm thick for 300mm WR????

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I don’t see price being the deciding factor on a £25K watch, if it was £22K it would make no difference to the decision to buy.

The piece either appeals or it doesn’t.

Maybe a few years ago but the game has changed now, now people want value and immediate price appreciation potential, the 5522 really set this era off and the Code confirmed it with its overpricing, if this was priced at 21/22K I think alot of people on the fence, which is probably half of potential buyers, would go for it so the fact that this is not considered good value will put many people off. Just judging the piece on how it looks or feels is old thinking, the same thinking that keeps the Dato and ZW, two widely admired pieces that p1ss all over the 5522 and the Nautilus, firmly out of the hot and in the depreciation zone. At 18/19K this would be a surefire hit, a demand led organic hit, and not a supply manipulation hit, which is probably how Lange will engineer it.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by cascavel

In the last three years the U.S. equity markets have created $9 trillion of new wealth. If it's just about money, the momentum is there. For a watch of which probably only 400 will be produced over 2 years I doubt that perfection is required.
I think that this will be one of the more enjoyable watches to follow as it reaches the market.

It's not about money, it is about getting something of value, something that is cheap and underpriced and that will appreciate, that is the new kudos, that is what everyone wants to show off on Social Media. They want to essentially show off their profits, that is something that everyone can easily understand. Having the wealth to buy grand comps is old hat kudos and for only the select few, and to be brutally honest slightly looked down upon now as it's a money loser, as there are money winners to be had now. It has become an investment game sadly but that is how we have got to where we are and how hype forms.

[MichaelFlash]

Originally Posted by AK797

It's not about money, it is about getting something of value, something that is cheap and underpriced and that will appreciate, that is the new kudos, that is what everyone wants to show off on Social Media. They want to essentially show off their profits, that is something that everyone can easily understand. Having the wealth to buy grand comps is old hat kudos and for only the select few, and to be brutally honest slightly looked down upon now as it's a money loser, as there are money winners to be had now. It has become an investment game sadly but that is how we have got to where we are and how hype forms.

Until the bubble pops. For now, I am looking for an underappreciated and undervalued Lange...

[locutus49]

Talk about resurrecting design cues, just shoot me up with skeuomorhine.

Honestly, though, I kinda dig the Glashutte diver and especially like the sapphire covered back end. I might buy one of these.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Oh, look, another german watchmaker dropped a new sports watch today (steel on steel bracelet)... And it actually looks good. :)

https://monochrome-watches.com/glash...-review-price/

[AK797]

Originally Posted by MichaelFlash

Until the bubble pops. For now, I am looking for an underappreciated and undervalued Lange...

Underappreciated is most of them as I alluded to, and overpriced is why they have not gone more mainstream. If the Odysseus had been underpriced that might have led to alot more interest in the brand as a whole, so a double missed opportunity, look at how DJs are now widely unavailable when before they were everywhere and unwanted, all because Rolex is in play and everyone is after one or rather the profits and kudos that come with them.

[MichaelFlash]

Originally Posted by AK797

Underappreciated is most of them as I alluded to, and overpriced is why they have not gone more mainstream. If the Odysseus had been underpriced that might have led to alot more interest in the brand as a whole, so a double missed opportunity, look at how DJs are now widely unavailable when before they were everywhere and unwanted, all because Rolex is in play and everyone is after one or rather the profits and kudos that come with them.

Agreed. When we all were giving our 2 cents about what the Lange sports watch should be on another thread, I opined that it should not be too expensive or inaccessible to bring in some new blood.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Oh, look, another german watchmaker dropped a new sports watch today (steel on steel bracelet)... And it actually looks good. :)

https://monochrome-watches.com/glash...-review-price/

Aesthetically looks good, but also derivative and a giant hunk of steel I wouldn’t want to wear at nearly 16mm thick (~50% thicker than Ody)!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by JR16

Aesthetically looks good, but also derivative and a giant hunk of steel I wouldn’t want to wear at nearly 16mm thick (~50% thicker than Ody)!!!

Not disputing that it's unnecessarily thick, but remember its water resistance is 3x the Ody, and it is a dive watch, whereas the Ody is not.

[MichaelFlash]

I am not loving how there is quite a noticeable gap on the level were the lugs and bracelet meet. Also doesn't seem to align 100%. Dissapointing.

[0315]

Great read!

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by AK797

Maybe a few years ago but the game has changed now, now people want value and immediate price appreciation potential, the 5522 really set this era off and the Code confirmed it with its overpricing, if this was priced at 21/22K I think alot of people on the fence, which is probably half of potential buyers, would go for it so the fact that this is not considered good value will put many people off. Just judging the piece on how it looks or feels is old thinking, the same thinking that keeps the Dato and ZW, two widely admired pieces that p1ss all over the 5522 and the Nautilus, firmly out of the hot and in the depreciation zone. At 18/19K this would be a surefire hit, a demand led organic hit, and not a supply manipulation hit, which is probably how Lange will engineer it.

Couldn't disagree more.

This is a luxury item and as such it is very difficult to bring value and appreciation into any discussion about a potential purchase - buy because you want it to wear as a great watch, the quality of a Lange is paramount (nothing should stand in the way of quality) and the price is the price.

The piece is already sold out for 2-3 years. At £18k (list £24.9) Lange would probably need to sell twice as many pieces to simply achieve the same margin. They have stated that it is going to be a family line in their model range. Even if they were to increase overall production by 20% over the next 5 years (which is not easy in such a hand finished product and they will need to grow this organically) that still means they are likely to be making only around 200-250 pieces a year in each model of the Odysseus family.
If the product is good they can easily sell 200-250 per year - if it isn't good then it doesn't matter what the price is! Even using your floored argument you certainly don't get price appreciation increasing production and reducing price - never buy any watch with appreciation in mind!

Since when can you compare 5522 and Nautilus to Dato and Zeitwerk? Patek don't make a Zeitwerk competitor and the 5170/5172 pieces are Pateks Dato competitors! (neither Patek chrono is a strong residual performer)

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Couldn't disagree more.

This is a luxury item and as such it is very difficult to bring value and appreciation into any discussion about a potential purchase - buy because you want it to wear as a great watch, the quality of a Lange is paramount (nothing should stand in the way of quality) and the price is the price.

The piece is already sold out for 2-3 years. At £18k (list £24.9) Lange would probably need to sell twice as many pieces to simply achieve the same margin. They have stated that it is going to be a family line in their model range. Even if they were to increase overall production by 20% over the next 5 years (which is not easy in such a hand finished product and they will need to grow this organically) that still means they are likely to be making only around 200-250 pieces a year in each model of the Odysseus family.
If the product is good they can easily sell 200-250 per year - if it isn't good then it doesn't matter what the price is! Even using your floored argument you certainly don't get price appreciation increasing production and reducing price - never buy any watch with appreciation in mind!

Since when can you compare 5522 and Nautilus to Dato and Zeitwerk? Patek don't make a Zeitwerk competitor and the 5170/5172 pieces are Pateks Dato competitors! (neither Patek chrono is a strong residual performer)

Like I said I think you are living in the past, so is Lange, which is why I am not surprised they have gone with a high price, just like with the AP Code and VCO, while the hot brands like PP sports and Rolex have been underpricing their recent offerings and we see how sought after they are. Luxury has been redefined to include price appreciation as well now, all those showing off on social media who drive this luxury market do want to be showing off a money loser now, even if it is a finely made Haute piece, that's why the humble Nautilus range is so much more in demand than the Dato, whereas before the hype both models depreciated in value, because both were highly priced in those pre-hype days. Now the Nautilus certainly is not. Those days are long gone.

So I am comparing the 5522 and the Dato to illustrate how today's market works, the Dato is twice the watch the Pilot is but the Pilot is the hot watch not the Dato and that is all due to the price, it certainly is not aesthetically very popular and got lots of criticism for looking cheap and like a Zenith etc, very similar reception for the AP Code, another overpriced watch that is not doing well, while the 5522 has very strong resale.

And the knock on effect of the 5522 was the 5524 also had a great start and lots of interest and so have all the Patek sports, which is why Lange and AP should have thought of the family to come when pricing this, and not just about making the maximum revenue right now. Yes Lange make far fewer watches and the novelty factor of this watch will probably mean they sell almost all they make, but with so much criticism of the watch and without the attractive price they have made this release and the future of the family not as successful as it could have been had they had a more modern strategy to pricing.

[_speedmaster_]

Originally Posted by AK797

Like I said I think you are living in the past, so is Lange, which is why I am not surprised they have gone with a high price, just like with the AP Code and VCO, while the hot brands like PP sports and Rolex have been underpricing their recent offerings and we see how sought after they are. Luxury has been redefined to include price appreciation as well now, all those showing off on social media who drive this luxury market do want to be showing off a money loser now, even if it is a finely made Haute piece, that's why the humble Nautilus range is so much more in demand than the Dato, before the hype both models depreciated in value.

So I am comparing the 5522 and the Dato to illustrate how today's market works, the Dato is twice the watch the Pilot is but the Pilot is the hot watch not the Dato and that is all due to the price, it certainly is not aesthetically very popular and got lots of criticism for looking cheap and like a Zenith etc, very similar reception for the AP Code, another overpriced watch that is not doing well, while the 5522 has very strong resale.

And the knock on effect of the 5522 was the 5524 also had a great start and lots of interest and so have all the Patek sports, which is why Lange and AP should have thought of the family to come when pricing this, and not just about making the maximum revenue right now. Yes Lange make far fewer watches and the novelty factor of this watch will probably mean they sell almost all they make, but with so much criticism of the watch and without the attractive price they have made this release and the future of the family not as successful as it could have been had they had a more modern strategy to pricing.

Wasn't the 5522 limited to 500 or so pieces? I would think that contributes to its price appreciation moreso than the initial price to entry. I also wouldn't consider the 5524 a hot watch; it gets around a 20% haircut on the secondary market.