Patek Quality Inconsistencies?

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

Agreed, but also please understand it will always only ever be “a watch by an independent” or “insert your choice/indy here”, it will never be a Patek Philippe.

That was directed at people who keep complaining about Patek being shite yet spend all the time being in the Patek section of the forum

[ts3]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Patek finishes it’s high grand complications to a different level, they are made/assembled by their finest watchmakers in a different department and are double assembled. High grand complications is defined as rattrapante and above.
You will not see a difference between a 5167, a 5320 or indeed a 5270.

Certainly a helpful reminder not to expect too much from them lower grand complications.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by HMHM

That was directed at people who keep complaining about Patek being shite yet spend all the time being in the Patek section of the forum

Yes, I think it’s about time the mods made an Independent sub forum for them so they can then discuss Andreas Strehler or how a new independent watch comes with a hand made 100x loupe so you can admire the custom hand engraved hairspring that’s so much better than Patek.

[dchang81]

i don't expect it to be impeccably finished, but some of the QC especially a few years ago was not good.

[daveo5]

What are “entry level or beginners” Patek Philippes? I wear a PP as a daily beater, to me the exterior finishing is superb. Can’t comment on the movement ‘cause it’s a solid back. The date changes when it should. The hands line up as they should. The screw down crown screws down as it should. The bracelet is a ‘rice’ design and a nice piece of work. ‘Course my PP was produced in 1995, which was a very good year.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Neurogeek]

I’ve seen comments like this on various forums/FB pages. Sometimes they all come from 1 single photo on the internet. My understanding is that they are referring to the finishing of the movement & dial under magnification. To me it isn’t an issue. I’d much rather my Patek to be robust against shocks and daily bumps than having "perfect" dial under the loupe but not able to be magnetic/shock resistant like the independents.

[Billfav]

My entry level 5227 finishing looks as good as my 3940, ALS 1815 or Lange 1. The only possible exception I would make MAYBE my Journe. And as stated elsewhere in this thread at the end of the day a Patek is a Patek.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by Billfav

My entry level 5227 finishing looks as good as my 3940, ALS 1815 or Lange 1. The only possible exception I would make MAYBE my Journe. And as stated elsewhere in this thread at the end of the day a Patek is a Patek.

5227 is one of my favourite’s.

[azizu]

my experience with Patek Philippe included the following references:
3919J
5146G
5170G
5712A
5320G
never once did i face any issues with Patek finishing quality.
my AD is honest and open and shares few stories of clients that had like a movement issue but never but never with the finishing

[dchang81]

this thread is kinda why i figured everyone will forget about the whole ming ordeal. several years ago there were a fair number of posts with QC issues and finishing issues. less so these days, but there were definite concerns.

[Ichiran]

We are all in this expensive hobby with our own money. If there are major concerns with quality, we won't be buying and buying them non-stop to this day, isn't it? My last Patek purchase was June 2021 and looking to add more pieces.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

We are all in this expensive hobby with our own money. If there are major concerns with quality, we won't be buying and buying them non-stop to this day, isn't it? My last Patek purchase was June 2021 and looking to add more pieces.

100% Agree, every company has QC issues including Patek although only extremely rarely. The important thing is the number of issues per items sold and how they are dealt with.

[bonsai-man]

A lot of the finishing concerns I have seen for ALL brands over the year’s are actually not an issue at all and better than spec for that level of product. I have no doubt Patek/other brands could hand finish the edges and undersides of every hand and mirror polish inside the threads of every screw used, but then they’d only make 6000 watches/year and cost 3x the price.

I may be easily pleased, but I am delighted with all my Patek purchases, and over the moon with the finishing even though they are only entry level steel pieces.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by ts3

Certainly a helpful reminder not to expect too much from them lower grand complications.

The definition of high grand comp is Pateks and also marks the level at which the piece has to be returned to the factory for a service/repair and cannot be worked on at service centres around the world.

Originally Posted by Billfav

My entry level 5227 finishing looks as good as my 3940, ALS 1815 or Lange 1. The only possible exception I would make MAYBE my Journe. And as stated elsewhere in this thread at the end of the day a Patek is a Patek.

I’m surprised you hold Journe finishing so high, this isn’t the general view.

[Billfav]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I’m surprised you hold Journe finishing so high, this isn’t the general view.

Maybe I will the contrarian to the general view on the matter of my reference comparison to FPJ finishing, but I disagree. To me I find their 18k rose gold movements are exquisite in both execution and finishing.

[vandyologist]

I own two Journes (and a bunch of Pateks) and while the rose gold movement is beautiful, the Patek finishing is much better to my eye. When I compare the edges, the polishing of the screws, the Geneva stripes, Patek is better even on the basic models. For me, I enjoy FPJ for their focus is on the engineering (“Invenit et Fecit”) and not necessarily the finishing.

[Billfav]

Originally Posted by vandyologist

I own two Journes (and a bunch of Pateks) and while the rose gold movement is beautiful, the Patek finishing is much better to my eye. When I compare the edges, the polishing of the screws, the Geneva stripes, Patek is better even on the basic models. For me, I enjoy FPJ for their focus is on the engineering (“Invenit et Fecit”) and not necessarily the finishing.

Yes I have seen your exquisite collection. Well done. To me (a raving PP fan with 1 FPJ and 4 PP) maybe it is the overall presentation of the FPJ that draws my untrained eye in wherein the sum is greater than its parts.

However getting back to the point of the OP, I don't see a difference in the quality of the finishing between my different PP references. Now I have not seen anything higher on the spectrum from PP then a PC.

Great thread and apologies to all for the digression of FPJ.

[WatchEater666]

Patek is definitely a step down from others in the same price range no matter what level you look at.

With that said, you can also buy/sell them without losing anything so they don’t really cost anything to own. Of course, shit happens, but IMO they are a nice entry point to haute horology because of the above.

[ramenlover]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Patek is definitely a step down from others in the same price range no matter what level you look at.

With that said, you can also buy/sell them without losing anything so they don’t really cost anything to own. Of course, shit happens, but IMO they are a nice entry point to haute horology because of the above.

Can you please elaborate how Patek is a step down from equivalent watches from VC and AP, thanks.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Patek is definitely a step down from others in the same price range no matter what level you look at.

With that said, you can also buy/sell them without losing anything so they don’t really cost anything to own. Of course, shit happens, but IMO they are a nice entry point to haute horology because of the above.

Thanks for your contribution to the thread.

[mario1971]

Editing, off topic.

[Partekular]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Patek is definitely a step down from others in the same price range no matter what level you look at.

With that said, you can also buy/sell them without losing anything so they don’t really cost anything to own. Of course, shit happens, but IMO they are a nice entry point to haute horology because of the above.

A step down - from what and to what? Without explanation or examples I am sorry to say: …… well, I dont want to be rude but you ought to explain yourself.

As for PP prices, price and value are two different concepts.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by Partekular

A step down - from what and to what? Without explanation or examples I am sorry to say: …… well, I dont want to be rude but you ought to explain yourself.

As for PP prices, price and value are two different concepts.

Romain Gauthier, MB&F, Gronefeld, etc... all make watches that are objectively better for the money.

There is no question about it, the above have better finishing and usually more interesting/unique movements. Some of them will do custom work too for a negligible fee.

The nice thing with Patek is that you can get in and out of them easily, and that's about it.

[bonsai-man]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Romain Gauthier, MB&F, Gronefeld, etc... all make watches that are objectively better for the money.

There is no question about it, the above have better finishing and usually more interesting/unique movements. Some of them will do custom work too for a negligible fee.

The nice thing with Patek is that you can get in and out of them easily, and that's about it.

One man’s interesting and unique is another’s weird and wacky. It does not make them objectively better IMO, but then that’s probably just me.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

One man’s interesting and unique is another’s weird and wacky. It does not make them objectively better IMO, but then that’s probably just me.

+1.

Absolutely agree with what you said.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

One man’s interesting and unique is another’s weird and wacky. It does not make them objectively better IMO, but then that’s probably just me.

Originally Posted by Ichiran

+1.

Absolutely agree with what you said.

Look at the internal angles on something like a Romain Gauthier; the finishing is objectively better.

I'm not saying Patek isn't worth it, I'm just saying they are not even close to being the best in the price range. You can see the noticeably better finish on something like a Gronefeld too...

Again, what I like about Patek is that it's a nice way to dip your toes into haute horology without losing money.

[ramenlover]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Look at the internal angles on something like a Romain Gauthier; the finishing is objectively better.

I'm not saying Patek isn't worth it, I'm just saying they are not even close to being the best in the price range. You can see the noticeably better finish on something like a Gronefeld too...

Again, what I like about Patek is that it's a nice way to dip your toes into haute horology without losing money.

My tastes aren’t as discerning as yours. I don’t care that the movement of independent watches looks better under a loupe. I buy Patek because it is Patek.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Look at the internal angles on something like a Romain Gauthier; the finishing is objectively better.

I'm not saying Patek isn't worth it, I'm just saying they are not even close to being the best in the price range. You can see the noticeably better finish on something like a Gronefeld too...

Again, what I like about Patek is that it's a nice way to dip your toes into haute horology without losing money.

Objectively I can't even find a RG in my country to compare side-by-side with an equivalent Patek at the same price range. RG only sells in a handful of countries in a tiny volume of 100 pieces per year. This is not a slight on RG and it may well be superior to other similarly prized brands. I just can't opine.

It's a misunderstanding you can buy Patek without losing money. I lost 40% of the value on my 5327 the moment I leave the store should I want to sell.

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Romain Gauthier, MB&F, Gronefeld, etc... all make watches that are objectively better for the money.

There is no question about it, the above have better finishing and usually more interesting/unique movements. Some of them will do custom work too for a negligible fee.

The nice thing with Patek is that you can get in and out of them easily, and that's about it.

Like I mentioned previously, it’s like comparing Pagani to Ferrari. One makes 100 cars per year compared to 10k per year. MB&F is a different league to Patek but the price difference between a MB&F sport watch such as the perpetual Evo and a sports Patek such as the Aquanaut and Nautilus is huge (160k vs 30-50k). Naturally one would expect a better finishing on an MB&F right?

[dchang81]

please delete if against the rules, but there are plenty of threads. when i started looking at patek 5-7 some years ago there were plenty of threads like below. it does seem like there are less these days. the main theme too were the service center issues and their plan to hire more watchmakers since they were seriously understaffed. i still like the brand and plan on giving mine to my kids but they aren't without fault.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=409697
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=312945
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=581887
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=621148
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=748140
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=407227
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=424258
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=424459
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=434013