Bought from Grey Dealer...

[watchmaker]

What does being from the UK mean? Of course I understand the way things work in America, as well as Britain.

My point is, and no one can argue with me on this. Is that (and these are the facts) Watch was bought grey, and has an AD stamp, which is not where it was bought from.
Rolex asked for a receipt because they caught smell of something they didnt like.
And the question was asked how to get them to do it without a receipt ie, get round them.

How can anyone argue that this isnt dishonest. Whether or not your in the UK, this isnt right. It was bought grey, and Rolex (and indeed almost any brand of any product) will not honour a warranty from a product bought grey. It is a trade off of the lower price.

[greekbum]

Originally Posted by Alan111

Really? Is that so? I bought a BMW in Germany 2 years ago. After a couple of months, I had it delivered to me here in the US. BMW has not once ever dishonored any warranty work. That's the reason for a warranty. If the manufacturer does not think that they are making a quality product, then they would not offer a warranty. IT's because Rolex is making a quality product that they offer the warranty. Why should my watch not function correctly after only 6 months?

You're analogy with buying a car and bringing it overseas was a bad example...

I dont think it was.You missed the point I think. I bought an American car here and shipped it overseas to Europe not the other way around.To save some money of course or else I would have bought it there.They do not honor the USA warranty. It even says so in the owners manual. When you bought your watch from the grey dealer did he inform you that Rolex USA does not honor the warranty?Did he mislead you?Did he offer you an in house warranty?

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by Numismatist

My apologies to Rikki, I did not intend this thread to go this way.

I understand that the warranty is written such that is applies only to an AD purchased watch; therefore, grey's watches shouldn't have a warranty. I concur and agree that legally the document should stand as written. That is a legally written distinction chosen by Rolex but does not address the issue of why there are so many 'BNIB stickers intact etc. open warranty card' watches available on the market at far below retail prices.

That has to be a problem with the Rolex-AD relationship. I'm just trying to understand why this is? End buyers of these broken relationship watches are just trying to get what they perceive as due them even though they are wrong. The Rolex-AD relationship problem is the root cause that helps tarnish our beloved brand.

Rikki, do you have any insight into what the Rolex-AD issues are that cause so many watches to be available in the grey fashion?

I assume this is aimed at me. I'm Scott. Rikki is a different member/techxpert.
In answer to your question though. It is generally a case where an AD sells the watch to the grey, that they receive some benifit provided by the grey. Could be anything. For example, the grey dealers brother runs a car park, so the AD manager gets free parking. That kind of thing. If the AD didnt benifit, they wouldnt do it. But in any industry there are people who buckle to persuasion/bribery.

[Numismatist]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

I assume this is aimed at me. I'm Scott. Rikki is a different member/techxpert.
In answer to your question though. It is generally a case where an AD sells the watch to the grey, that they receive some benifit provided by the grey. Could be anything. For example, the grey dealers brother runs a car park, so the AD manager gets free parking. That kind of thing. If the AD didnt benifit, they wouldnt do it. But in any industry there are people who buckle to persuasion/bribery.

Sorry Scott, I was confused at the names of all you fine watchmaker experts whom I truly value and respect.

I'm fascinated by all things watchmaking and trying to learn how the industry works. Thanks.

[cowincanada]

i see the point where the AD should not service (repair for free) any watches that was not bought from them, because the expert watchmaker is being paid by the AD.

But if you buy an expensive watch like Rolex. In my mind, it doesn't matter where, from you, how you bought it. If its under warranty period, Rolex should stand by their product - not the AD (since they did not benefit from any transaction). However way someone got their watch (except of course if they steal it), Rolex made a profit out of it.

[Art 1]

There is no warranty when you buy from a grey dealer. Even when purchased thru an AD you can be asked for the receipt.

[newmedia]

Even with this watch needs regulated and paying the service fee, the buyer should come ahead in money wise + some warranty from RSC.

[Toxicant]

Originally Posted by watchmaker

This is the gamble taken when you choose to go grey. Unfortunately there is nothing you can do to make Rolex honour the warranty. They are a smart lot, and will see quite a few watches with a foreigh, often Asian stamp. If you bought it genuinly, then you would have a receipt so no love lost for Rolex, so it was a safe bet for them asking you for it.

When you ask "Is there any way or anything I can tell Rolex for them to do the warranty work without showing a receipt from this HK AD? ", essentially you are looking to cheat them. My advise is, you probably made a saving by going grey (otherwise why bother) so if you want the regulation, why not pay for it.

If the watch wasnt worth buying for full price, and you now want to 'cheat' them out of a free regulation, what does that say for: 1-your valuation of the brand, and 2-Your respect for the industry.

Sorry for the slight rant. But given my salary was paid by the watch houses for many years it hits a nerve when topics like this come up.

I completely disagree with you on two points. There should be no difference as to how I acquired the watch, I could have bought it from the UK dealer direct or through a second or third party. When Rolex sold that watch to the AD in HK they made their profit PERIOD. Once that watch enters the retail market the warranty should follow that watch no matter where it ends up, if it was sold originally in HK then it should have its full two year warranty.

I think the HK AD's should stamp the warranty card and date it but that is an issue with Rolex and their AD's, not the end consumer. If Rolex can't police their AD's that would be their problem not ours.

Your second point regarding the value of the watch and "cheating" Rolex seems a lot off base. We all know that Rolex sold the watch to the AD, warranty starts when they sell the watch, end of story. You want to twist this all around and make it sound like poor Rolex is getting taken advantage so be it, this doesn't wash with the rest of us.

What a person pays for the watch when they buy grey is the actual value of the watch, no one is being cheated. I'd love to hear how you think Rolex is being cheated by someone buying grey, the US AD's on the other hand are loosing some business but really, since when does Rolex care about AD's. You have to display a certain way, can't cross brand and if you don't sell "x" amount get ready for us to pull the franchise.

Rolex is out of line, they should honor the warranty regardless of where the watch came from and frankly I think a class action law suit might be in order. I'm sick and tired of these big corporations dictating what they will and won't do. Rolex is being cheap and found a way to screw a bunch of people out of the warranty that they are entitled to. I have respect for the industry but very little for Rolex in this manner.

[BLM2]

Another option would be to send the watch to the RSC responsible for that foreign country. They should regulated the watch without any problems. Shipping and insurance (if possible) would probably cost a fair amount.

Lee

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by cowincanada

i see the point where the AD should not service (repair for free) any watches that was not bought from them, because the expert watchmaker is being paid by the AD.

But if you buy an expensive watch like Rolex. In my mind, it doesn't matter where, from you, how you bought it. If its under warranty period, Rolex should stand by their product - not the AD (since they did not benefit from any transaction). However way someone got their watch (except of course if they steal it), Rolex made a profit out of it.

It astonishes me that even when it has been openly admitted that Rolex do not owe the customer anything with regards to a grey watch that people still think Rolex should 'stand by them'. If that was the case then why have AD's.
Some people buy through grey dealers for a better price.
Others buy from an AD for the whole package inc warranty.

If you want it all, but dont want to pay full price, what does that make the people that play by the rules. Stupid for doing it? or does it say something about the people that want it all, their way, 40% discount and full benifit when it goes wrong?. I know what my vote's on.

[watchmaker]

Originally Posted by Toxicant

Your second point regarding the value of the watch and "cheating" Rolex seems a lot off base. We all know that Rolex sold the watch to the AD, warranty starts when they sell the watch, end of story. You want to twist this all around and make it sound like poor Rolex is getting taken advantage so be it, this doesn't wash with the rest of us.

You take it to Rolex for regulating under a warranty that in essence you didnt pay for. It costs Rolex to fix the watch. They are out of pocket. Simple.

It doesnt matter how much you paid for the watch. The warranty is clear that it only applies when bought through an agent. And it doesnt count to say the grey dealer bought it from an agent.

[MortgageGuy]

So are you telling me you would rather pay full price then get a discount? I dont think so. It sounds to me that some are pissed off that they didnt get a discount (sour grapes) and are now trying to say hahahha when there is a problem. I have bought all my Rolex from AD but see why others have not. To some people the savings is very important and I never new you would not have a warranty from Rolex? How can you say Rolex owes them nothing? I still dont understand this?

[bradiowausa]

I agree with Scott on this one. I recently purchased a sub for $5000 from a grey dealer that I could have gotten $6000 for at an AD. The savings that I received have to come from somewhere, and I see it as fair that I loose the Rolex warranty (Bernard's 2 year warranty replaces it). Rolex needs to do this to protect their AD base.

That is from a broad fairness perspective. Legally speaking, there are many rules considering warranties. A manufacturer is limited in the restrictions that they can put on warranties, depending on the jurisdiction. I would be surprised if there is a law prohibiting rolex from restricting the warranty to sales between ADs and the ultimate consumer.

[cowincanada]

so you're telling me, when Rolex passes on a watch to an AD (Rolex makes x profit), and then the AD passes on the watch to the Grey (AD makes y amount of profit or benefit), and then Grey passes on to consumer (Grey makes z profit) - the warranty is lost along the way? All the time watch has not been worn whatsover?

The only reason people buy Grey is to not to give too much profit to the AD. But regardless of the route the watch takes from Rolex, to the end consumer, everybody along the way makes profit. Just a question of how much.

At the end of the day, its the same brand new watch that came from Rolex. To compete with the grey market, the AD should get the idea from you and just sell the warranty separately.

[springer]

Originally Posted by asadtiger

hey relax guys...its just different approaches to a purchase man...the guy found a good deal on a brand new watch that must have been bought and purchased from Rolex for sure so why should he have bothered how Rolex will make money on it?..its just simple economics and no such big deal of cheating or anything, IMHO...when he has bought a new rolex, ofcourse rolex has made money on it so his claim on the company is justified I believe..it is not justified in my humble opinion, only in the occassion the watch was stolen FROM ROLEX...even if it were stolen from someone else (I know that would be a very sad thing) but Rolex has to still, I believe, honour its warranty cuz whenever they sold the watch and made money on it,ofcourse they keept the margin for repairs that would be claimed on it and now they are cheating a customer by not honouring their committment...a warranty is a binding document of their promise on them...this is just what I believe..I could be wrong and do have limited understanding of the grey market but easy on the poor guy buddies :)

Tiger, I hate to break the news but you are wrong. Please read...the Rolex new watch warranty is valid only to the original purchaser of the watch in the USA. If a grey market dealer purchased the watch, they are the original owner, not the guy that purchased the watch from the grey dealer. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

It does no good to debate and question the warranty policies of Rolex - nobody on this forum or that forum is going to change it. This warranty issue protects Rolex from having dealers wholesale watches out the back door. I can't say that I blame them, because if I owned the company, I would do the same thing. This is one of the reasons that Rolex has retained it's marque in the watch community - they protect it with a passion. There are many other high-end watches available on the market, as well made as Rolex, but they are wholesaled everywhere and retain little of their original purchase price.

Everyone loves a deal or bargain, until the deal gets the better of you.

Regarding the original post in this thread, my response to you would be to take the watch back to the grey dealer and have it regulated, or pay Rolex to do it. All Rolex has to do is run the serial number and contact the Rolex authorized dealer that originally sold this watch to determine whether your name was on the sales receipt. I'm betting it wasn't - therefore you have no warranty. Trust me, I know, Rolex knows what goes on out there with some of their dealers, and they have no problem pulling someone's franchise to sell their watches. In this particuliar case, I wouldn't put it past them to ask to see your passport to determine if you were ever in Hong Kong or Singapore or wherever the watch originated!!!!!!!!

[scottschoe]

Originally Posted by Alan111

I bought my wife's Datejust from a grey dealer in February and it came with a warranty card from HK. The date was stamped and name was left blank, so I filled my name in.

I took the watch to RSC NY today for some regulation because it's running about 30 seconds fast, and they told me that I would need to show them a receipt if warranty work needs to be done.

The grey dealer is a store here in the US and I guess one of their sources for Rolex is in HK. Is there any way or anything I can tell Rolex for them to do the warranty work without showing a receipt from this HK AD?

As long as it's a recent serial, you could always try shipping to another RSC and hope you get lucky.

[Alan111]

Everyone needs to calm down here. Many varied opinions here.

I just got a call from Rolex. They did not need to do warranty work on it, only a regulation and I wasn't charged anything.

I didn't beg, plead, swindle, rook, backstab, force or do anything that a "fraud" or "cheat" might do. They simply told me that they fixed it and it's ready for pickup. Watchmaker, you can stop crying now.

[Brushpup]

Boy! Some men.... you just can't reach.

To the OP: Guy, you took the gamble and came out ok. Used the money you saved and pay for a regulation. If not, live with it. I hate it for you, but your limited in options here.

[moviefreak]

Good thing about RSC is they pay for the travel back of the watch... so that is almost free.. and you get a nice box...

[2th Dr]

I've always wondered why you couldn't just tell them it was a gift? I mean, people DO receive Rolexes as gifts, don't they? And If I received one as a gift, I certainly wouldn't ask the giver for the receipt so I could have warranty service on it.

[MortgageGuy]

That would be dishonest and cheating....I agree we all need to calm down here. Glad they got it fixed for you, enjoy your watch...next thread...

[moviefreak]

What if it is a gift to yourself.. but you just do not mention the yourself part..

[NewYorker]

Bottom line: if it's grey market, Rolex USA has no idea where you got it from. You may trust your source, but why should they? You can say they are being greedy or protective of their AD network to maximize profits, but how can they be sure that the mysterious grey dealer you bought from didn't adjust or refurbish the watch in any way?

Glad you got your watch fixed though.

[Alan111]

Originally Posted by NewYorker

...but how can they be sure that the mysterious grey dealer you bought from didn't adjust or refurbish the watch in any way?

oh, THEY know. They will know right upon opening up the watch. They know the original configuration that the serial number is associated with it. They'll know if parts were changed or if the caseback was ever opened.

[moviefreak]

Imagine if RSC was reading this thread right now.. they might be magnetizing your watch...and laughing about the warranty.

[NewYorker]

Originally Posted by Alan111

oh, THEY know. They will know right upon opening up the watch. They know the original configuration that the serial number is associated with it. They'll know if parts were changed or if the caseback was ever opened.

Agreed. But there is a cost for them to do this in terms of labor, and unless all your paper is legit they will do everything to avoid taking on the cost.

Thankfully it turned out to be a non issue in the end. Thanks for the original post as it does highlight potential pratfalls.

[Thrasher]

i abdicated any warrantee rights when I purchased my 16710 from a grey marketeer. I understood the chances I took re warrantee work, and understood that the lower purchase price reflected this. Didn't see any "crying" on the part of Watchmaker, just a straight-forward mention of the ethics of the situation as he saw it. I am glad that the op got it sorted out.

[doze]

glad you got it fixed! understand nothing is free... but even with the savings from the grey dealer, the price that he paid for a WATCH is FAR from free. And let's be honest, rolex doesn't lose a dime and they even profit from the grey dealers (clear unsold inventory from AD).

[esm]

Originally Posted by Alan111

Everyone needs to calm down here. Many varied opinions here.

I just got a call from Rolex. They did not need to do warranty work on it, only a regulation and I wasn't charged anything.

I didn't beg, plead, swindle, rook, backstab, force or do anything that a "fraud" or "cheat" might do. They simply told me that they fixed it and it's ready for pickup. Watchmaker, you can stop crying now.

consider yourself lucky then. Glad it worked out to your advantage.
Maybe you should buy a lottery ticket. You know - good things also comes in three times.....

As for watchmaker's posts - he has given us alot of food for thought and I do agree with his posts.

Put yourself in a grey dealers shoes, the reason they can offer you a huge discount on popular/semi-popular rolex means something is excluded in the offer and in "almost" all cases, its the full 2 years rolex international warranty.

Congrats again on your outcome.

[rsg]

I'm confused. If I buy from a grey dealer who buys a watch from a US AD and my name is on the warranty card Rolex won't honor the warranty?
What happens if my brother happens to find a watch I want while he is traveling and picks it up for me, but happens to lose the receipt on the way home. Rolex won't honor the warranty?
That seems strange to me.