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leopardprey · 7 June 2007, 01:22 PM

do u have any statistics to back your claim about asia...??
Look at the number of swiss luxury watches sold per capita in Asian countries compared to non-Asian countries for one. Observe how gold and diamond wathces for men, about 10x more popular with men than in the west. I have had several Asian ADs in KL, PP, BKK tell me the same thing I have observed, that watches are more status oriented in the Far East than in the western world. This is comming from Asian ADs and watch collectors, not just my observations. Not saying it is good or bad (Is a very good thing for the luxury swiss watch market), just a fact.

Meant to print Small Minute hand not small second hand. No one is disputing that Rolex is not a good watch, all I am saying is in terms of a Mechanical Reliable tool watch, IMHO the Omega PO is not only a better deal price wise but better in the features. Maybe you do not need the lum for example, but the Sub is marketed as a dive watch. If you have eer gone diving then you will know that a larger minute hand and better lum is needed. Ever go night diving? Or been on a military operation and have to check the time at 0300 in the morning?

The AR coating also helps keep glare off the watch and also does not show fingerprints and smudges all the time like on the sub when you use the bezel frequently.

AS for watches that look great for under $500, check out the line from Victorinix Swiss Army or Sieko, for example.

I think you are taking my post a little too serious and offensive, all I am stating is IMHO the PO is a better watch than the Omega. And if the Sub is evena little better is it over $2000 better?

Of course I think many that say the PO is too heavy are using the Giant size 45.5mm Sub for comparison, not the 42mm.

Now in terms of servicing, well with the Co-Axial, service intervals are much longer than the Rolex and also Omega charges about half for servicing than Rolex.

roadcarver · 7 June 2007, 01:31 PM

IMHO, both watches are good. I've owned a PO 42.5mm and currently own an SD. Only sold the PO cause it was the last watch purchased and I had to sell it to meet other financial obligations.

3135 movement is bullet proof
Coaxial movement is bullet proof + longer service intervals and less wear

Rolex is very popular due to an excellent marketing machine, and honestly not the end all and be all of watches.

Omega bracelets are great, very comfy no sharp edges. Rolex oysters and cases tend to have some sharp edge to them. Downside with the bond bracelet is that it has no micro adjustment.

AR I think is an awesome feature but overtime can wear off and can readily show smudges. It would be easier to see the time without much glare. Also, PO has no cyclops which makes the overall appearance a bit busier.

In the end its just a matter of preference.

leopardprey · 7 June 2007, 01:38 PM

Idiotsavant, Yeah that G Shock is one strong watch! I used to take mine and throw it full force against a wall to show others how tough it was! Wore one for several years thorugh some very tough military training.

Of course actually put an Omega SMP through some of the same rough training (minus throwing it at walls to impress friends! LOL) and it never skipped a beat!

But, I do like wearing a fine swiss (omega, Rolex, UN, etc...) mechanical watch instead now for other reaons (history, old school, tradition, prestige, like the fine working of the inner mechanical movements, etc...)

AR I think is an awesome feature but overtime can wear off and can readily show smudges. It would be easier to see the time without much glare. Also, PO has no cyclops which makes the overall appearance a bit busier.
Good post BTW Roadcarver, and I hear what you are saying about the potential for the AR to wear off, but in three years of very hard use with the OMega SMP never had an issue, and the AR benifit was really great! No fingerprints, smudges, easier to read the dail etc.. Think the benefits of AR far out ways any negatives and much prefer to non-AR coated. One fothe first things I noticed when I switched to a Rolex, was how I was constantly having to clean the crystal compared to the Omega.

I found the lack of micro-adjustement to never be an issue with the Omega, since they come with a half link, where as the Rolex has only full links but each micro adjustment is essentially a half link so about the same.

In the end its just a matter of preference.

That is what is really comes down to and if you do not mind spending the extra $2000 for your preference to have a Rolex. But, I still can not say that the Rolex is $2000 better watch. The extra $2000 is paying for the Brand Name recognition.

ohlins · 7 June 2007, 01:50 PM

serious i am....but not offensive.....:0

i think we can agree to disagree.........:)

as to the sales of luxury watches in asia.....i think that's a fact but is too simplistic to state that ppl here buy watches for the sake of owning a status symbol.....does sales figures equate to the need to have a status symbol, i dun think so.........there could be just more watch connoisseurs here....i dun try to dwell into why others buy luxury watches cos there is no way to tell....

all medically fit male singaporeans go thru compulsory military service and i have my fair share of ops and exercises in the day and night........i dun have a problem with the lume......

my pam has AR coating and my rolex watches have no AR coating....makes no difference to me.....

yeah in fact i think the rolex sub is worth the difference over an omega PO.....i walk the talk cos i own an LV .....i could buy almost 2 POs for the price but i did not....

i am not sure about omega service charges but rsc singapore charges about $400 for a service..........seems reasonable to me.....

leopardprey · 7 June 2007, 01:56 PM

Did you wear your Sub during military operations? I have worn my Sub and Omega both of Military operations, and definatley foudn the the Sub lacking in that regard for lum. But, that being said, many of my friends wore Rolexs as well and never complained. One thing good about the LV is the larger minute hand, a very good improvement.

Well, disagree, still can not see the Sub, even though I have one being worth twice a PO, except for the name Rolex. A Rolex is like gold in a way, an expensive commodity.

Now, don't get me going on Panerais here in Asia!

Too big of watches and has become all the fad. Way overpriced IMHO!

Now personnally I think for the same price as a Rolex, there are better finished, worked, and tool watch features found IN the following dive watches than a Sub (they are jUSt not recognized like a Rolex, which IMO makes them mORe rare and unique): GP Seahawk, UN Marine Divers, Glashutte Sports Evol. Diver, Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (100 hour power reserve!)

ohlins · 7 June 2007, 02:31 PM

i have seen the GP seahawk and GO sports evo up close....while i recognise that they are nice watches.....i rather stay with my rolex

i have handled the UN maxi marine diver a few times......they are good and i think they are nice.....there are many satisfied owners of the marine diver but i wont be one........almost bought one though.....

no experience with blancpain cos no interest.....

i think you shd sell your sub if you find it to be such a "low quality" product....

amanda · 7 June 2007, 03:33 PM

Interesting thread... hows the saying go 'opinions are like a-holes everyone has one'

to state the obvious alot of what has been discussed is merely personal preference/opinion. Everyone here is a WIS and sees the merets of owning a fine mechanical timepiece.... Rolex is the master of marketing and with that comes a stigma associated to the brand... I personally dont like that stigma but like a few of the watches!

I'd certainly say that in Hong Kong owning a Rolex is making a statement, I've never seen so many Rolexs in the wild... everyone wears them.. young, old.. I saw a lady wearing a SS Daytona that looked like she couldnt afford to buy herself new clothes.. that was how she was dressed (merely speculation on my part). Everyone I've spoken to about it back in Australia all said the same thing... in HK owning a rolex is a status symbol. Makes sense to me.

I dont think I'd personally even compare a PO to a Sub... I dont dive so the 'tool' aspect means nothing to me, both watches are totally different in appearance to me, both totally different manufacturers - when choosing a new watch I might like 3 totally different and unrelated watches ie a 14060, a Seamaster GMT or a Speedy Pro and choose one from say those models.. I dont say ' i want a diver' or ' I want a GMT' thats just not me.

Anyone else share that view?

ADISMO · 7 June 2007, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amanda

in Hong Kong owning a Rolex is making a statement, I've never seen so many Rolexs in the wild... everyone wears them..

see any street vendors selling these Rorexes?

amanda · 7 June 2007, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADISMO

see any street vendors selling these Rorexes?

No I never saw anyone selling fakes. I was approached on Nathan Rd by those men asking if I wanted handbag or a Rolex and did I want to follow them - ahh no thanks!

I was referring to people wearing Rolex watches. Mainly on the train. And I never said 'rorex' you have implied I meant fakes, I never saw fakes.... these were the real deal and adorning the wrists of people on their way to work every day. If you've been to HK you'll know that there is pretty much a Rolex AD on every corner... fakes have been cleaned up significantly in HK. You have to know where to look to get fake Rolex.

idoitsavant · 7 June 2007, 05:07 PM

Really? I mean when I was there just months back, I was approached by folks selling fakes. They are all over Nathan, Temple and Women Streets. Cool.

leopardprey · 7 June 2007, 07:41 PM

Amanda, from one who used to live in HK, agree very much with your statements.

Ohlins, I never said the Sub was a low quality product or wish to get rid of my sub. The Sub is a great watch. But being objective, I can not say it is $2000 better than the Omegas, other than for the name and reputation.

Now, if one likes a Rolex, as I do for various reasons, or the Rolex just smiles at them and they like having it on their wrist and they don't care about the cost, then buy one and wear it with pride. That is a personal preference.

But, this post was which was a better watch and/or value. Even though I own several Rolex watches (and I love them on my wrist), I would have to say the Omega is better overall, if I look at it objectively.

So, here I go again. Lets put the Sub and the PO side by side. And forget that one says Omega on the Dial and the other says Rolex. Forget that one cost $2000 more.

Movement: I would say the PO wins by a small margin. 3135 Rolex movement is a great movement. But, PO has modified ETA with the Co-Axial. More time between service intervals, uses less lubrication, and also the rotar is ball bearing based instead of old pinion style like Rolex.

Water resistance: Sub is 300 meters, PO is 600 meters. So PO wins.

Bracelet: Bracelet is more engineered on the PO, fits better against the skin, edges more finished and rounded off and clasp is flush with bracelet. So PO wins. Sub bracelet is still a good bracelet and I like the links, but PO still wins.

Case: PO wins. Better finished and rounded off. Nice engraving on back side. Sub leaves unfinished rough edges on sides of case and lugs.

Readability of dial: PO wins. PO has larger hands and also much better lulmination.

Price: PO wins. $3000 for PO. $5000 for Sub. (resale value and future worth, well that is very subjective. It is easier to resell a Sub, so the Sub wins in terms of resell value. But, value wise will probably loose about the same amount of money when sell both. Also, for value you have to figure in with the PO, you can take the $2000 you saved and invest (like in a CD I have which pays 5.1% apr interest compounded monthly).

Crystal: PO wins. Domed crystal, anti-reflective coating. Sub still has nice crystal. Sub has Cyclops, PO does not. That is a matter of preference. I like the Cyclops and no cyclops both.

Crown and Crown guards: Both come out equal in my opinion.

Helium Escape valve: Will that is subjective. Do not really need, and would be better in that regards if you were comparing the SD to the PO. Well, the Sub does not have one. Again that feature is more of a preferecnce and IMO not a feature that is really needed unless one does commercial diving.

Now, I could also apply many of the above points to the OMega SMP GMT compared to the Rolex GMT and it would be the same. (OMega GMT 300 meters, Rolex GMT 100 meters, etc...). I have several Rolex dual time watchs (plan on selling one) and getting ready to buy an Omega Discontinued White GMT.

Of course I may be getting heavlily influenced, since I am starting to date one of the Omega Sales reps!

And yes, she is very cute! (actually she really prefers Longine watches and she like Omega Constellation series, and she likes Rolex watches as well. But, she is one who told me that watch buying for Cambodians is all about Status, and it is very hard to sell SS sport models here, as everyone wants a gold and/or diamond watch to show off)

leopardprey · 7 June 2007, 07:47 PM

Posted by Amanda:

I might like 3 totally different and unrelated watches ie a 14060, a Seamaster GMT or a Speedy Pro

Now that would be an ideal Tool watch collection at good value, historical significance, and very reliable!

If I had to start all over again, what you quote above is what I would go with! A agrat 3 watch collection for around $8500! And covers all your needs. A plain simple movement historical 300 meter Rolex dive watch, a dual time watch that is also 300 meters rated, and a very strong reliable and historical manual winding Chronograph. I like your thinking Amanda!

leopardprey · 7 June 2007, 07:50 PM

Well, the fake selling of Rolex in Hong Kong has become more discreet. You now are approached by some Pakistani refuge who asks if you want to buy a copy rolex. If you express interest he takes you to the back of some tailor shop or something like that and then out comes the fake catolog and the fake models.

Used to be you would see the fakes lined up right out there on the street. You still see that in BKK and Phnom Penh.

ohlins · 7 June 2007, 08:00 PM

i dun even need to consider so many things....

PO vs rolex sub.....

rolex sub is beautiful...the other is not....rolex wins.....

but since u listed the criteria and your reasons.....i dun see what i shd not engage u on that....

pls note that the co-axial is the escapement.....yes it does need less lubrication but that is only for the escapement......pls dun think that the coaxial is an entire movement......

i dun see any demerit of a jewelled rotor vs one that is on ball bearings......

wr......that is only a numbers game to me......so is a sinn u1 (wr 1000m) a better watch? or is the bell & ross hydromax ...rated to 11100 m the best ..??......doesnt matter to me whether its 300m or 600m or 1000m......

bracelet......i have previously said what i think of the oyster bracelet.....and i think it's superior both in comfort and looks

i find there is nothing wrong with the oyster case......i like the sharp edges and it doesnt even bother me when its on my wrist.......

readability of dial.....my eyesight is good enough to read the sub dial adequately.......

price of cos the po wins since it is cheaper......but i am not out to buy a cheap watch....

HEV......no use.....dun do saturation diving.....anyone here does...??

given all your comments......i really cant understand why do u own a rolex watch cos it gives you so many demerits......

u shd walk the talk and own solely omega watches....u could have save many thousands of dollars....

leopardprey · 7 June 2007, 08:17 PM

Ohlins, your taking this personal. I know many of us get upset when we see watches that are sometimes better and end up costing less. But, it does not bother me. I bought my Rolex watches cause I like them, like the history, tradition, looks etc.. Have no desire to part with all my collection, but if you compare the PO and the Sub objectively and look at the price as well, then I still believe the PO wins. But, you can have your opinion.

BTW, I would hardly call a $3000 watch a cheap watch, unless we are going after that status quo thing again.

Yes, you are right the Co-axial is the escapement, but that is a major critical part of the movement.

For example on the sharp edges, Most of the time does not bother me either, but it just shows that Omega took a little more time in the finishing department to insure there would be no sharp edges. That is one of the first things when non-WIS friends I had mentioned when I showed them both my SMP and the Rolex.

readability of dial.....my eyesight is good enough to read the sub dial adequately....... Take off your glasses (if you use them) and compare reading both dials at 0300 in the morning, when they were last exposed to light at 1000 hrs. Or compare reading both dials on a night dive. (yes, I used to dive quite frequently at night).

Again, not saying the Rolex is not a good watch, just IMHO, if it was not for the Brand Status name Rolex on the dial, can not see it being worth $2000 more. Now, I don't mind paying $2000 more for the status/history. But, $ to $, the Omega is a better buy.

One thing about the Sub bracelet, which I do like, but still think the Omega bracelet is way better. Is that there have been cases of the clasp opening, since it sticks out and is not flush of getting caught on things. Has never happended to me, but can see it as a liability. Did get caught up on a shirt one of my friends when he was wresteling down a Hagi.

Will not get into long discussing on jeweled pinion movement vs ball bearing, that has been discussed many times on this forum, with many Rolex Forum members before expressing that the ball bearings was better and wishing Rolex would update.

Agree that the HE has not use to me and the deepest I have ever dove is around 60 meters. But there are several forum members who do Saturation diving for a living, so they may be interested in that feature.

Again, if you like the Sub more and like it in the looks and recognition, pride, status, history, etc.. and the price is no big deal, then get a Sub. But, as this post or a friend ask me which one to get, which is a better tool watch, I would say get the Omega.

I am glad y ou enjoy your Sub and enjoy the pride it gives you wearing it. Jsut as I enjoy my Sub. Wear it and abuse it as a watch should be!

ohlins · 7 June 2007, 08:28 PM

not upset but just have to make a stand when "subjectively better" is being touted as the "absolute truth"......and i think u dun understand whether i was upset or not....

C.J. · 7 June 2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohlins

not upset but just have to make a stand when "subjectively better" is being touted as the "absolute truth"......and i think u dun understand whether i was upset or not....

You seemed a little upset. What's better for one, certainly may not be for all. That why were here though, to share our thoughts and feelings and get to see things from the perspective of others

leopardprey · 7 June 2007, 08:37 PM

Not stating absolute truths, just comparing the facts and features about both watches and giving my opinions.

If I did upset you in any way, I apologize, as just discussing a purely mechanical peice of machinery, nothing really important in the grand scheme of life. It is just a watch.

Stating the Sub is beautiful and the other is not, well that is not really comparing the facts but a opinion.

I think both the Sub and PO are good looking watchs. The domed crystal on the PO gives a very nice look. Don't personally care for the Orange bezel versions, though a freind has one and looks nice on him. But, do like the 6, 9, 12 Orange numbers. Looks better than how Rolex decided to use the Orange highlights on the new Milgaus (a little overkill, but maybe will look really sharp when seen in the flesh).

Your Sub (and my Sub as well : ) ) is a fine watch. But, IMHO the Omega PO is a better buy with more tool oreinted watch features.

amanda · 7 June 2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leopardprey

Well, the fake selling of Rolex in Hong Kong has become more discreet. You now are approached by some Pakistani refuge who asks if you want to buy a copy rolex. If you express interest he takes you to the back of some tailor shop or something like that and then out comes the fake catolog and the fake models.

Used to be you would see the fakes lined up right out there on the street. You still see that in BKK and Phnom Penh.

Yeh if you go back a page, you'll see that I implied that is how one picks up a folex in HK

I'm not following no dude into a dark alley in some strange country!

As for the 3 ultimate tool watches.. yeh spose they are but you'd have to add a Panerai or 3 into the mix. I'd not get those 3 if was going to get another 3 watches it would be a Sub no-date and a Radiomir 210 or a 232 if I won lotto - I think.

I'll go wake up now.. from my dreams, a 232 is only that a dream

ohlins · 8 June 2007, 12:11 AM

no worries.....and u dun have to apologise....

ADISMO · 8 June 2007, 03:36 AM

leopard, each point you bring up is valid about the Omega, but the end total of all these doesnt add up to a "better buy" in someone elses eyes. its a lot of objective info for what still seems to be a subjective final opinion.

btw how did a rolex get caught on a haji? your friend took took it on deployment? thats what Timex are for. =)

leopardprey · 8 June 2007, 11:03 AM

A lot of people I worked with in Iraq, wore Rolex, Omega, Breitling, or Tag. Seems the thing to get while on R and R, is a really nice mechanical tool watch, and then wear it as it was designed, 24/7 in the environment you are working.

btw how did a rolex get caught on a haji?

Baggy man dress on Hagi, baggy overshirt on operator, Sub clasp sticks out a bit with edge easy to catch on things.

morgman · 8 June 2007, 11:44 AM

I have both. The PO is definitely more bang for the buck. If you try hard, you should be able to find an AD that can go $2500 on it. The sub is rarely discounted at $5175. That's over 2x the cost.

Both wear comfortably, but the PO bracelet is better IMO. It never catches hair and feels more quality. The PO also keeps slightly better time. I also find the PO easier to read at a quick glance. The hands are very reflective and crisp. I like the thick, domed crystal too. Very nice watch.

In general, I feel the PO is simply more modern looking. I do like the ultra glossy dial on the rolex better though. The PO can sometimes have an office/executive look to it, where I find the sub more classy.

If you made me choose between the two, I would pick the sub.

How are you all doing anyway?

morgman · 8 June 2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idoitsavant

.....Besides that, the NAME of cos! We all love it for various reasons. I associate that with quality only to be let down by my own experience. As of now, I am thinking of flipping my new GMT to get a pre-own Explorer 1 which I think has got a more robust movement (correct me if I am wrong).
........

I would agree that it's more robust only because it has less parts. They are both based off the same base movement though, correct?

JJ Irani · 8 June 2007, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by morgman

It never catches hair and feels more quality. The PO also keeps slightly better time. I also find the PO easier to read at a quick glance. The hands are very reflective and crisp. I like the thick, domed crystal too. Very nice watch.

In general, I feel the PO is simply more modern looking. I do like the ultra glossy dial on the rolex better though. The PO can sometimes have an office/executive look to it, where I find the sub more classy.

If you made me choose between the two, I would pick the sub.

How are you all doing anyway?

Hi Morgy,

Great to have you back. And I'm the one with all that hair on my arm....never had a problem of hair pulling with any bracelet - be it an Omega, Breitling, TAG or a Rolex.

leopardprey · 8 June 2007, 05:40 PM

A little known fact in the watch world is most watch manufacturers send their bracelets to JJ, for him to test on his wrist to se if they pull wrist hairs!! LOL

leopardprey · 8 June 2007, 05:42 PM

PO has a 3 year warranty
Sub has a 2 year warranty

So PO wins in that category.

Personally I think Rolex should see that and up their warranty to 4 years.

JJ Irani · 9 June 2007, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leopardprey

Personally I think Rolex should see that and up their warranty to 4 years.

....make that FIVE!!

haakon59 · 9 June 2007, 05:29 AM

Some fascinating points for me to mull over and I especially appreciate the discussion since I have been so divided in my own sympathies. One day I think "Rolex", the next I think "Omega". As with so many things in life, it really winds up being personal preference. It's beginning to look like I am going to have to buy both.

leopardprey · 9 June 2007, 01:12 PM

It really comes down to which watch you think looks better, feels better on the wrist or just plain like more. But, I think a lot of us pay the extra dollars not so much for better quality or looks, but more for the Rolex Brand name. So if you do compare the SMP/PO to a Sub, is the Sub really worth the extra $2000-$3000 more for jsut the brand name? I will be honest, my Omega SMP cost me only around $1800 yet was much nicer finsihed, fit better on the wrist, actually got more compliments, and the lum lasted all night long. One thing to about the Sub, is you see do many fakes and also so many wearing real ones, it kind of looses it's uniqueness.
Rolex has done a very good job with advertising, reputation, and marketing. YOu are brought up hearing about reaching the pinnacle of acheivement where you will have a a Rolex. But, truth be told there are better watches out there for the same price and watches of the same or better quality for lesser price. I will say, I think ROlex has the best Advertisements out there! They always spark adventure.

I know I have plugged this before, but I bought a Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine Diver a month ago and it cost the same as a Sub, but the detail and craftsmanship is much higher and refined than the sub. I like the UN, cause I know it is a very small company (not owned by Swatch or a big conglamorate like ROlex) and some very fine individual fitting and quaility goes into the watch. Were the Rolex is mass produced by machines these days.

7 June 2007, 01:31 PM	#32
roadcarver "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Real Name: Vernon Location: C-a-n-a-d-a Watch: 16600 Posts: 5,641	IMHO, both watches are good. I've owned a PO 42.5mm and currently own an SD. Only sold the PO cause it was the last watch purchased and I had to sell it to meet other financial obligations. 3135 movement is bullet proof Coaxial movement is bullet proof + longer service intervals and less wear Rolex is very popular due to an excellent marketing machine, and honestly not the end all and be all of watches. Omega bracelets are great, very comfy no sharp edges. Rolex oysters and cases tend to have some sharp edge to them. Downside with the bond bracelet is that it has no micro adjustment. AR I think is an awesome feature but overtime can wear off and can readily show smudges. It would be easier to see the time without much glare. Also, PO has no cyclops which makes the overall appearance a bit busier. In the end its just a matter of preference. __________________ I'm just a cook...

7 June 2007, 01:50 PM	#34
ohlins "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Singapore Watch: Rolex Posts: 1,213	serious i am....but not offensive.....:0 i think we can agree to disagree.........:) as to the sales of luxury watches in asia.....i think that's a fact but is too simplistic to state that ppl here buy watches for the sake of owning a status symbol.....does sales figures equate to the need to have a status symbol, i dun think so.........there could be just more watch connoisseurs here....i dun try to dwell into why others buy luxury watches cos there is no way to tell.... all medically fit male singaporeans go thru compulsory military service and i have my fair share of ops and exercises in the day and night........i dun have a problem with the lume...... my pam has AR coating and my rolex watches have no AR coating....makes no difference to me..... yeah in fact i think the rolex sub is worth the difference over an omega PO.....i walk the talk cos i own an LV .....i could buy almost 2 POs for the price but i did not.... i am not sure about omega service charges but rsc singapore charges about $400 for a service..........seems reasonable to me..... __________________ the hype is true. a crown for every achievement. visit my audio and watch blog & how to use the rolex comfort link?

7 June 2007, 02:31 PM	#36
ohlins "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Singapore Watch: Rolex Posts: 1,213	i have seen the GP seahawk and GO sports evo up close....while i recognise that they are nice watches.....i rather stay with my rolex i have handled the UN maxi marine diver a few times......they are good and i think they are nice.....there are many satisfied owners of the marine diver but i wont be one........almost bought one though..... no experience with blancpain cos no interest..... i think you shd sell your sub if you find it to be such a "low quality" product.... __________________ the hype is true. a crown for every achievement. visit my audio and watch blog & how to use the rolex comfort link?

7 June 2007, 08:00 PM	#44
ohlins "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Singapore Watch: Rolex Posts: 1,213	i dun even need to consider so many things.... PO vs rolex sub..... rolex sub is beautiful...the other is not....rolex wins..... but since u listed the criteria and your reasons.....i dun see what i shd not engage u on that.... pls note that the co-axial is the escapement.....yes it does need less lubrication but that is only for the escapement......pls dun think that the coaxial is an entire movement...... i dun see any demerit of a jewelled rotor vs one that is on ball bearings...... wr......that is only a numbers game to me......so is a sinn u1 (wr 1000m) a better watch? or is the bell & ross hydromax ...rated to 11100 m the best ..??......doesnt matter to me whether its 300m or 600m or 1000m...... bracelet......i have previously said what i think of the oyster bracelet.....and i think it's superior both in comfort and looks i find there is nothing wrong with the oyster case......i like the sharp edges and it doesnt even bother me when its on my wrist....... readability of dial.....my eyesight is good enough to read the sub dial adequately....... price of cos the po wins since it is cheaper......but i am not out to buy a cheap watch.... HEV......no use.....dun do saturation diving.....anyone here does...?? given all your comments......i really cant understand why do u own a rolex watch cos it gives you so many demerits...... u shd walk the talk and own solely omega watches....u could have save many thousands of dollars.... __________________ the hype is true. a crown for every achievement. visit my audio and watch blog & how to use the rolex comfort link?

7 June 2007, 08:28 PM	#46
ohlins "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Singapore Watch: Rolex Posts: 1,213	not upset but just have to make a stand when "subjectively better" is being touted as the "absolute truth"......and i think u dun understand whether i was upset or not.... __________________ the hype is true. a crown for every achievement. visit my audio and watch blog & how to use the rolex comfort link?

7 June 2007, 01:22 PM	#31
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	do u have any statistics to back your claim about asia...?? Look at the number of swiss luxury watches sold per capita in Asian countries compared to non-Asian countries for one. Observe how gold and diamond wathces for men, about 10x more popular with men than in the west. I have had several Asian ADs in KL, PP, BKK tell me the same thing I have observed, that watches are more status oriented in the Far East than in the western world. This is comming from Asian ADs and watch collectors, not just my observations. Not saying it is good or bad (Is a very good thing for the luxury swiss watch market), just a fact. Meant to print Small Minute hand not small second hand. No one is disputing that Rolex is not a good watch, all I am saying is in terms of a Mechanical Reliable tool watch, IMHO the Omega PO is not only a better deal price wise but better in the features. Maybe you do not need the lum for example, but the Sub is marketed as a dive watch. If you have eer gone diving then you will know that a larger minute hand and better lum is needed. Ever go night diving? Or been on a military operation and have to check the time at 0300 in the morning? The AR coating also helps keep glare off the watch and also does not show fingerprints and smudges all the time like on the sub when you use the bezel frequently. AS for watches that look great for under $500, check out the line from Victorinix Swiss Army or Sieko, for example. I think you are taking my post a little too serious and offensive, all I am stating is IMHO the PO is a better watch than the Omega. And if the Sub is evena little better is it over $2000 better? Of course I think many that say the PO is too heavy are using the Giant size 45.5mm Sub for comparison, not the 42mm. Now in terms of servicing, well with the Co-Axial, service intervals are much longer than the Rolex and also Omega charges about half for servicing than Rolex.

7 June 2007, 01:38 PM	#33
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	Idiotsavant, Yeah that G Shock is one strong watch! I used to take mine and throw it full force against a wall to show others how tough it was! Wore one for several years thorugh some very tough military training. Of course actually put an Omega SMP through some of the same rough training (minus throwing it at walls to impress friends! LOL) and it never skipped a beat! But, I do like wearing a fine swiss (omega, Rolex, UN, etc...) mechanical watch instead now for other reaons (history, old school, tradition, prestige, like the fine working of the inner mechanical movements, etc...) AR I think is an awesome feature but overtime can wear off and can readily show smudges. It would be easier to see the time without much glare. Also, PO has no cyclops which makes the overall appearance a bit busier. Good post BTW Roadcarver, and I hear what you are saying about the potential for the AR to wear off, but in three years of very hard use with the OMega SMP never had an issue, and the AR benifit was really great! No fingerprints, smudges, easier to read the dail etc.. Think the benefits of AR far out ways any negatives and much prefer to non-AR coated. One fothe first things I noticed when I switched to a Rolex, was how I was constantly having to clean the crystal compared to the Omega. I found the lack of micro-adjustement to never be an issue with the Omega, since they come with a half link, where as the Rolex has only full links but each micro adjustment is essentially a half link so about the same. In the end its just a matter of preference. That is what is really comes down to and if you do not mind spending the extra $2000 for your preference to have a Rolex. But, I still can not say that the Rolex is $2000 better watch. The extra $2000 is paying for the Brand Name recognition.

7 June 2007, 01:56 PM	#35
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	Did you wear your Sub during military operations? I have worn my Sub and Omega both of Military operations, and definatley foudn the the Sub lacking in that regard for lum. But, that being said, many of my friends wore Rolexs as well and never complained. One thing good about the LV is the larger minute hand, a very good improvement. Well, disagree, still can not see the Sub, even though I have one being worth twice a PO, except for the name Rolex. A Rolex is like gold in a way, an expensive commodity. Now, don't get me going on Panerais here in Asia! Too big of watches and has become all the fad. Way overpriced IMHO! Now personnally I think for the same price as a Rolex, there are better finished, worked, and tool watch features found IN the following dive watches than a Sub (they are jUSt not recognized like a Rolex, which IMO makes them mORe rare and unique): GP Seahawk, UN Marine Divers, Glashutte Sports Evol. Diver, Blancpain Fifty Fathoms (100 hour power reserve!)

7 June 2007, 03:33 PM	#37
amanda Banned Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,380	Interesting thread... hows the saying go 'opinions are like a-holes everyone has one' to state the obvious alot of what has been discussed is merely personal preference/opinion. Everyone here is a WIS and sees the merets of owning a fine mechanical timepiece.... Rolex is the master of marketing and with that comes a stigma associated to the brand... I personally dont like that stigma but like a few of the watches! I'd certainly say that in Hong Kong owning a Rolex is making a statement, I've never seen so many Rolexs in the wild... everyone wears them.. young, old.. I saw a lady wearing a SS Daytona that looked like she couldnt afford to buy herself new clothes.. that was how she was dressed (merely speculation on my part). Everyone I've spoken to about it back in Australia all said the same thing... in HK owning a rolex is a status symbol. Makes sense to me. I dont think I'd personally even compare a PO to a Sub... I dont dive so the 'tool' aspect means nothing to me, both watches are totally different in appearance to me, both totally different manufacturers - when choosing a new watch I might like 3 totally different and unrelated watches ie a 14060, a Seamaster GMT or a Speedy Pro and choose one from say those models.. I dont say ' i want a diver' or ' I want a GMT' thats just not me. Anyone else share that view?

7 June 2007, 05:07 PM	#40
idoitsavant Member Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Ivan Location: singapore Watch: WGDJ Posts: 177	Really? I mean when I was there just months back, I was approached by folks selling fakes. They are all over Nathan, Temple and Women Streets. Cool.

7 June 2007, 07:41 PM	#41
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	Amanda, from one who used to live in HK, agree very much with your statements. Ohlins, I never said the Sub was a low quality product or wish to get rid of my sub. The Sub is a great watch. But being objective, I can not say it is $2000 better than the Omegas, other than for the name and reputation. Now, if one likes a Rolex, as I do for various reasons, or the Rolex just smiles at them and they like having it on their wrist and they don't care about the cost, then buy one and wear it with pride. That is a personal preference. But, this post was which was a better watch and/or value. Even though I own several Rolex watches (and I love them on my wrist), I would have to say the Omega is better overall, if I look at it objectively. So, here I go again. Lets put the Sub and the PO side by side. And forget that one says Omega on the Dial and the other says Rolex. Forget that one cost $2000 more. Movement: I would say the PO wins by a small margin. 3135 Rolex movement is a great movement. But, PO has modified ETA with the Co-Axial. More time between service intervals, uses less lubrication, and also the rotar is ball bearing based instead of old pinion style like Rolex. Water resistance: Sub is 300 meters, PO is 600 meters. So PO wins. Bracelet: Bracelet is more engineered on the PO, fits better against the skin, edges more finished and rounded off and clasp is flush with bracelet. So PO wins. Sub bracelet is still a good bracelet and I like the links, but PO still wins. Case: PO wins. Better finished and rounded off. Nice engraving on back side. Sub leaves unfinished rough edges on sides of case and lugs. Readability of dial: PO wins. PO has larger hands and also much better lulmination. Price: PO wins. $3000 for PO. $5000 for Sub. (resale value and future worth, well that is very subjective. It is easier to resell a Sub, so the Sub wins in terms of resell value. But, value wise will probably loose about the same amount of money when sell both. Also, for value you have to figure in with the PO, you can take the $2000 you saved and invest (like in a CD I have which pays 5.1% apr interest compounded monthly). Crystal: PO wins. Domed crystal, anti-reflective coating. Sub still has nice crystal. Sub has Cyclops, PO does not. That is a matter of preference. I like the Cyclops and no cyclops both. Crown and Crown guards: Both come out equal in my opinion. Helium Escape valve: Will that is subjective. Do not really need, and would be better in that regards if you were comparing the SD to the PO. Well, the Sub does not have one. Again that feature is more of a preferecnce and IMO not a feature that is really needed unless one does commercial diving. Now, I could also apply many of the above points to the OMega SMP GMT compared to the Rolex GMT and it would be the same. (OMega GMT 300 meters, Rolex GMT 100 meters, etc...). I have several Rolex dual time watchs (plan on selling one) and getting ready to buy an Omega Discontinued White GMT. Of course I may be getting heavlily influenced, since I am starting to date one of the Omega Sales reps! And yes, she is very cute! (actually she really prefers Longine watches and she like Omega Constellation series, and she likes Rolex watches as well. But, she is one who told me that watch buying for Cambodians is all about Status, and it is very hard to sell SS sport models here, as everyone wants a gold and/or diamond watch to show off)

7 June 2007, 07:47 PM	#42
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	Posted by Amanda: I might like 3 totally different and unrelated watches ie a 14060, a Seamaster GMT or a Speedy Pro Now that would be an ideal Tool watch collection at good value, historical significance, and very reliable! If I had to start all over again, what you quote above is what I would go with! A agrat 3 watch collection for around $8500! And covers all your needs. A plain simple movement historical 300 meter Rolex dive watch, a dual time watch that is also 300 meters rated, and a very strong reliable and historical manual winding Chronograph. I like your thinking Amanda!

7 June 2007, 07:50 PM	#43
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	Well, the fake selling of Rolex in Hong Kong has become more discreet. You now are approached by some Pakistani refuge who asks if you want to buy a copy rolex. If you express interest he takes you to the back of some tailor shop or something like that and then out comes the fake catolog and the fake models. Used to be you would see the fakes lined up right out there on the street. You still see that in BKK and Phnom Penh.

7 June 2007, 08:17 PM	#45
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	Ohlins, your taking this personal. I know many of us get upset when we see watches that are sometimes better and end up costing less. But, it does not bother me. I bought my Rolex watches cause I like them, like the history, tradition, looks etc.. Have no desire to part with all my collection, but if you compare the PO and the Sub objectively and look at the price as well, then I still believe the PO wins. But, you can have your opinion. BTW, I would hardly call a $3000 watch a cheap watch, unless we are going after that status quo thing again. Yes, you are right the Co-axial is the escapement, but that is a major critical part of the movement. For example on the sharp edges, Most of the time does not bother me either, but it just shows that Omega took a little more time in the finishing department to insure there would be no sharp edges. That is one of the first things when non-WIS friends I had mentioned when I showed them both my SMP and the Rolex. readability of dial.....my eyesight is good enough to read the sub dial adequately....... Take off your glasses (if you use them) and compare reading both dials at 0300 in the morning, when they were last exposed to light at 1000 hrs. Or compare reading both dials on a night dive. (yes, I used to dive quite frequently at night). Again, not saying the Rolex is not a good watch, just IMHO, if it was not for the Brand Status name Rolex on the dial, can not see it being worth $2000 more. Now, I don't mind paying $2000 more for the status/history. But, $ to $, the Omega is a better buy. One thing about the Sub bracelet, which I do like, but still think the Omega bracelet is way better. Is that there have been cases of the clasp opening, since it sticks out and is not flush of getting caught on things. Has never happended to me, but can see it as a liability. Did get caught up on a shirt one of my friends when he was wresteling down a Hagi. Will not get into long discussing on jeweled pinion movement vs ball bearing, that has been discussed many times on this forum, with many Rolex Forum members before expressing that the ball bearings was better and wishing Rolex would update. Agree that the HE has not use to me and the deepest I have ever dove is around 60 meters. But there are several forum members who do Saturation diving for a living, so they may be interested in that feature. Again, if you like the Sub more and like it in the looks and recognition, pride, status, history, etc.. and the price is no big deal, then get a Sub. But, as this post or a friend ask me which one to get, which is a better tool watch, I would say get the Omega. I am glad y ou enjoy your Sub and enjoy the pride it gives you wearing it. Jsut as I enjoy my Sub. Wear it and abuse it as a watch should be!

7 June 2007, 08:37 PM	#48
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	Not stating absolute truths, just comparing the facts and features about both watches and giving my opinions. If I did upset you in any way, I apologize, as just discussing a purely mechanical peice of machinery, nothing really important in the grand scheme of life. It is just a watch. Stating the Sub is beautiful and the other is not, well that is not really comparing the facts but a opinion. I think both the Sub and PO are good looking watchs. The domed crystal on the PO gives a very nice look. Don't personally care for the Orange bezel versions, though a freind has one and looks nice on him. But, do like the 6, 9, 12 Orange numbers. Looks better than how Rolex decided to use the Orange highlights on the new Milgaus (a little overkill, but maybe will look really sharp when seen in the flesh). Your Sub (and my Sub as well : ) ) is a fine watch. But, IMHO the Omega PO is a better buy with more tool oreinted watch features.

8 June 2007, 12:11 AM	#50
ohlins "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Singapore Watch: Rolex Posts: 1,213	no worries.....and u dun have to apologise.... __________________ the hype is true. a crown for every achievement. visit my audio and watch blog & how to use the rolex comfort link?

8 June 2007, 03:36 AM	#51
ADISMO Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Real Name: Adrian Location: Cali Watch: Seadweller Posts: 122	leopard, each point you bring up is valid about the Omega, but the end total of all these doesnt add up to a "better buy" in someone elses eyes. its a lot of objective info for what still seems to be a subjective final opinion. btw how did a rolex get caught on a haji? your friend took took it on deployment? thats what Timex are for. =)

8 June 2007, 11:03 AM	#52
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	A lot of people I worked with in Iraq, wore Rolex, Omega, Breitling, or Tag. Seems the thing to get while on R and R, is a really nice mechanical tool watch, and then wear it as it was designed, 24/7 in the environment you are working. btw how did a rolex get caught on a haji? Baggy man dress on Hagi, baggy overshirt on operator, Sub clasp sticks out a bit with edge easy to catch on things.

8 June 2007, 11:44 AM	#53
morgman "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 475	I have both. The PO is definitely more bang for the buck. If you try hard, you should be able to find an AD that can go $2500 on it. The sub is rarely discounted at $5175. That's over 2x the cost. Both wear comfortably, but the PO bracelet is better IMO. It never catches hair and feels more quality. The PO also keeps slightly better time. I also find the PO easier to read at a quick glance. The hands are very reflective and crisp. I like the thick, domed crystal too. Very nice watch. In general, I feel the PO is simply more modern looking. I do like the ultra glossy dial on the rolex better though. The PO can sometimes have an office/executive look to it, where I find the sub more classy. If you made me choose between the two, I would pick the sub. How are you all doing anyway?

8 June 2007, 05:40 PM	#56
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	A little known fact in the watch world is most watch manufacturers send their bracelets to JJ, for him to test on his wrist to se if they pull wrist hairs!! LOL

8 June 2007, 05:42 PM	#57
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	Another PO vs Sub comparrison PO has a 3 year warranty Sub has a 2 year warranty So PO wins in that category. Personally I think Rolex should see that and up their warranty to 4 years.

9 June 2007, 05:29 AM	#59
haakon59 "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Seattle Posts: 1,571	Some fascinating points for me to mull over and I especially appreciate the discussion since I have been so divided in my own sympathies. One day I think "Rolex", the next I think "Omega". As with so many things in life, it really winds up being personal preference. It's beginning to look like I am going to have to buy both.

9 June 2007, 01:12 PM	#60
leopardprey Banned Join Date: Nov 2006 Real Name: Chad Location: Around the world Watch: Panerai 233 Posts: 4,204	It really comes down to which watch you think looks better, feels better on the wrist or just plain like more. But, I think a lot of us pay the extra dollars not so much for better quality or looks, but more for the Rolex Brand name. So if you do compare the SMP/PO to a Sub, is the Sub really worth the extra $2000-$3000 more for jsut the brand name? I will be honest, my Omega SMP cost me only around $1800 yet was much nicer finsihed, fit better on the wrist, actually got more compliments, and the lum lasted all night long. One thing to about the Sub, is you see do many fakes and also so many wearing real ones, it kind of looses it's uniqueness. Rolex has done a very good job with advertising, reputation, and marketing. YOu are brought up hearing about reaching the pinnacle of acheivement where you will have a a Rolex. But, truth be told there are better watches out there for the same price and watches of the same or better quality for lesser price. I will say, I think ROlex has the best Advertisements out there! They always spark adventure. I know I have plugged this before, but I bought a Ulysse Nardin Maxi Marine Diver a month ago and it cost the same as a Sub, but the detail and craftsmanship is much higher and refined than the sub. I like the UN, cause I know it is a very small company (not owned by Swatch or a big conglamorate like ROlex) and some very fine individual fitting and quaility goes into the watch. Were the Rolex is mass produced by machines these days.

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