Royal Oak Extra Thin 39mm

[Submarino]

I personally like blueish dial on the RG Jumbo. I tried it on a few months ago and loved it. A true grail!!!

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by gbany

Are you sure about the clasp? If I recall correctly this model has a different clasp, more similar to the old ones (single with the AP logo) and a single push button.

Thank you,

gb

As Hal pointed out, the original had a blade single fold, the old 15202 had the AP logo single fold, and the new is butterfly with double push buttons.

[Dino944]

Originally Posted by kilyung

I believe it's the Cal.2121. The 2120 is the non-date movement.

Yes, sorry. I generally just go with the base version, as its what most people recognize as being the movement developed but never used by JLC (it was their cal 920) and in a VC its cal. 1120. Patek was the only company never to designate their version of the caliber as ending in XX20. When Patek used a version of the 920 it was called call 28-255. And yes, there is a 2121, 2122 for APs and a 1121, and 1122 for VCs.

Originally Posted by kilyung

What has changed in comparison to the vintage Royal Oak ref. 5402 ST?
-black date wheel with white numerals
-thicker bracelet
-double folding clasp with double push buttons
-rotor
-dial color

And what has changed compared to the previous Royal Oak ref. 15202 ST?
-not the reference, because that remained 15202 ST
-also not the diameter, which is still 39 mm
-finer hobnail dial
-no white line around date window
-black datewheel with white date numerals
-thicker bracelet with double folding clasp with double push buttons
-double stick marker at 12 o’clock
-AP logo above the 6 o’clock position
-no roman numerals (to indicate the minutes) around the dial

The date wheel on the new 2012 15202 is NOT actually black. It is dark blue, but due to the change in depth (the date wheel is sunken compared to the rest of the dial) it appear black. Actually, if you look at the lines of the cloud de paris in between the squares depending on the light it often looks black between the squares.

In addition compared to the 5402, the font used on the dial to say Audemars Piguet is different than what is used to say Audemars Piguet on the 15202.

Also, where you said "No roman numerals (to indicate the minutes)..." I believe you meant no Arabic numerals.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by Dino944

Yes, sorry. I generally just go with the base version, as its what most people recognize as being the movement developed but never used by JLC (it was their cal 920) and in a VC its cal. 1120. Patek was the only company never to designate their version of the caliber as ending in XX20. When Patek used a version of the 920 it was called call 28-255. And yes, there is a 2121, 2122 for APs and a 1121, and 1122 for VCs.



The date wheel on the new 2012 15202 is NOT actually black. It is dark blue, but due to the change in depth (the date wheel is sunken compared to the rest of the dial) it appear black. Actually, if you look at the lines of the cloud de paris in between the squares depending on the light it often looks black between the squares.

In addition compared to the 5402, the font used on the dial to say Audemars Piguet is different than what is used to say Audemars Piguet on the 15202.

Also, where you said "No roman numerals (to indicate the minutes)..." I believe you meant no Arabic numerals.

[cdnyc]

Originally Posted by Submarino

I personally like blueish dial on the RG Jumbo. I tried it on a few months ago and loved it. A true grail!!!

Just when I thought I was out...they pull me back in!

[JorgeB]

The blueish dial with the AP at 6 o clock makes this watch my new grail!

[cdnyc]

Is the blue dial on the new 15202 noticeably different than the blue dial on the 15300?

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by cdnyc81

Is the blue dial on the new 15202 noticeably different than the blue dial on the 15300?

Yup

[Submarino]

Originally Posted by cdnyc81

Is the blue dial on the new 15202 noticeably different than the blue dial on the 15300?

Night and day!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk.

[cdnyc]

is it just the smaller pattern, or the color and shine too?

[Submarino]

Originally Posted by cdnyc81

is it just the smaller pattern, or the color and shine too?

The tapisserie (pattern) is smaller on the 15202 using what AP calls the Petite Tapisserie, while the 15300 uses the Grande Tapisserie. The hue of blue on the Jumbo (15202) is a bit darker with some charcoal in it. Shine is the same.

[TSW]

Originally Posted by Submarino

I personally like blueish dial on the RG Jumbo. I tried it on a few months ago and loved it. A true grail!!!

Crazy line-up pure love there Hal

[Dino944]

Originally Posted by cdnyc81

is it just the smaller pattern, or the color and shine too?

The shine is about the same. Its my understanding that there are different blues used on is each of this year's new ROs such as the 15202, 15400, and the on the new 41mm RO chronograph.

[gbany]

Originally Posted by Submarino

The clasp on the 5402STs is a blade brevete clasp completely different to the new clasp. Here's a picture of the old one.

Thank you. I assume (from the pics.) that you have tried both the new and old 15202. How the new clasp wears? Is it thinner than the other RO models? Personally, I'm not a fan of the butterfly clasp, I find the single blade more comfortable.

Thank you very much for your time.

gb

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by gbany

Thank you. I assume (from the pics.) that you have tried both the new and old 15202. How the new clasp wears? Is it thinner than the other RO models? Personally, I'm not a fan of the butterfly clasp, I find the single blade more comfortable.

Thank you very much for your time.

gb

I've worn both and prefer the butterfly deployant for comfort. It's the same clasp on the 15400 as well.

[Dino944]

Originally Posted by gbany

Thank you. I assume (from the pics.) that you have tried both the new and old 15202. How the new clasp wears? Is it thinner than the other RO models? Personally, I'm not a fan of the butterfly clasp, I find the single blade more comfortable.

Thank you very much for your time.

gb

The stamped steel blade in that photo has not been offered on a Royal Oak Ultrathin in many years. Actually the GF on the blade indicates it was from Gay Freres (who made bracelets and clasps for lots of watch makers, AP, Rolex, Patek, Heuer etc). Gay Freres was purchased by Rolex many years ago.

The clasps on Royal Oak Ultrathins were not a butterfly style until 2012. However, I did not like the last few designs they did. I think their original stamped steel design (as made by GF) was their most comfortable single blade clasp. I did not care for the designs offered from say 2000-2011. Although the ones with the "AP" letters as part of the design were elegant I never thought it was very comfortable and I never liked the spring button closure. The new clasp is very comfortable and the watch sits right on the center of my wrist. Its probably one of the best butterfly designs I've worn.

I do not believe the current clasp is thinner than what is on other ROs, but didn't actually compare the clasps to check for thickness.

[Scott in Arizona]

I'll say this--the spring button closure is less secure than I would like. The foldover probably wouldn't work on a heavier, thicker piece but to me its part of the extra allure of the Jumbo.









Oh yeah, and there's that, too









They changed the rotor a little, but in either iteration, a thing of beauty. I will try to stop by the AD here and compare the new and mine, though I admit I want to see the 41mm. I love my 15202, but as our office has gone casual, I have to at least consider the larger one, probably better with polos.

[kilyung]

New rotor

[Minuteman]

The 15202 has rounded indexes/hour markers, amongst other things. Even if this is the original Genta design I find the hour markers with facets to give the watch more of a presence, especially in bright light/sunlight.

The fact that the 15300/400 costs quite a lot less, and has an in-house movement, as opposed to the 15202, I would think it over more than once before buying the 15202. But by all means, the 15202 is a fantastic watch, and if I had the money I would probably buy that as well :-)

[craniotes]

Originally Posted by Scott in Arizona

I'll say this--the spring button closure is less secure than I would like. The foldover probably wouldn't work on a heavier, thicker piece but to me its part of the extra allure of the Jumbo.



Oh yeah, and there's that, too

Agreed on both counts. I waited until the 40th Anniversary was released before I made my choice, and the clasp and rotor were two of several reasons that I decided to stick with the previous generation.

If I ever decide to get a Jumbo with an AP at six, it's gonna be an A-series.

Regards,
Adam

[orangedial]

So rich of information regarding the AP RO jumbo in this thread! I think it should be made a sticky

I've handled several versions of the jumbo, new and old, and I concur with all the comments here regarding the size, appearance, wearing comfort, etc comparing the different generations and also other more modern models such as the 15300 & 15400. In a nutshell, all ROs are special. Although one may wear slightly differently from another, they are all winners in their own rights.

5402 - Its 7mm "thick" case with solid case back is the slimmest. The legendary 2121 movement is concealed within the monocoque watch case. Agreed that the GF clasp is very comfortable but the older bracelet design has very limited removable links and it only suits larger wrist size. It didn't fit very well on my 6.75" wrist. The entire watch, while look sporty, does feel a little fragile due to the thin case and very thin bracelet. But it looks darn good on the wrist. The original dial with the double-stick 12 o'clock marker and the AP logo at 6pm is the most iconic jumbo dial, and the nicest of all.





14802 (Jubilee) - The first 8mm case with display case back exposing the amazing 2121 movement. The clasp is now single-fold. The plain rectangular shape clasp is very comfortable as there is no protruding edges like the newer AP logo single-fold clasp. For a smaller wrist like mine, I swap the orientation of the clasp to achieve better wearing comfort. The petite tapisserie dial is equally mesmerising as the original 5402.







15202 (pre-2012) - Same case size as 14802. Major design change in the dial, rotor engraving, and sporting the new AP logo single-fold clasp. With the shorter hour markers, arabic numbering on the outer ring, white box around the date aperture and the grand tapisserie dial, the entire watch looks even more sportier. The 3 dial colours (charcoal, slate-blue and white) offer good choices. The AP logo clasp doesn't wear as comfortable but it sure is elegant. The engraving of the rotor is tasteful.





15202 (2012) - As many have put, it is as close to the original as you can get for the jumbo. We see the return of double-stick 12 o'clock marker and AP@6, as well as the famed petite-tappiserie dial. The blue dial has a new shade of blue which is not quite near the original. I still feel the original dial colour is somewhat mysterious and more attractive. The little squares on the dial seem to be spaced a little far apart from each other compared to the original petite tapisserie dial. The font used is also changed. The result is a more modern and technical feel as opposed to the more classical feeling of the original design. The dark-blue date wheel with white numbering is however a welcomed detail which adds to the cohesiveness of the entire dial. The new rotor engraving is nice but feels more "industrial" compared to the previous model. The bracelet has been reworked with thicker size (same size or "flushed" with the lug-end of the watch case... previous model has a bracelet thinner than the lug). The clasp is now an enhanced butterfly clasp. The new bracelet has somehow given this revised jumbo a much bolder presence than the previous models, and it does give a more solid feeling in the hand.







How about the 15300 and 15400?

With the in-house 3120 movement, they come with a slightly thicker watch case and thicker bracelet. These add to a more substantial feeling and a bolder wrist presence compared to the jumbos. The modern models also have 60hr power reserve (as compared to the 38hr on the jumbo), quick-set date and second hand, which provide convenience and a sense of interaction assuring the wearer that the watch is ticking! As for 39mm vs 41mm, my take is that there is no real pros and cons here, it only depends on individual preference of size. As a matter of fact, the design of the RO's integrated steel bracelet makes the entire watch wears like a... bracelet. I think any size from 33mm - 44mm would look great on the wrist as long as the watch matches the apparel and style.

A pvd-ed 15300. Not the best example... but it's kinda cool..


15400. The bigger case size wears quite balanced on my 6.75" wrist. The new bracelet allows more room for adjustment too. (The bracelet in the photo has not been adjusted).


A quick shot of my wife's Lady RO on my wrist! Not really out of place though in terms of size except for the diamonds...


Hope these info and experience of mine is helpful for the discussion and for anyone who has yet to firm up his/her mind for a Royal Oak

[kilyung]

very well written Wayne! That PVD 15300 is very interesting.

[Submarino]

Originally Posted by orangedial

So rich of information regarding the AP RO jumbo in this thread! I think it should be made a sticky

I've handled several versions of the jumbo, new and old, and I concur with all the comments here regarding the size, appearance, wearing comfort, etc comparing the different generations and also other more modern models such as the 15300 & 15400. In a nutshell, all ROs are special. Although one may wear slightly differently from another, they are all winners in their own rights.

5402 - Its 7mm "thick" case with solid case back is the slimmest. The legendary 2121 movement is concealed within the monocoque watch case. Agreed that the GF clasp is very comfortable but the older bracelet design has very limited removable links and it only suits larger wrist size. It didn't fit very well on my 6.75" wrist. The entire watch, while look sporty, does feel a little fragile due to the thin case and very thin bracelet. But it looks darn good on the wrist. The original dial with the double-stick 12 o'clock marker and the AP logo at 6pm is the most iconic jumbo dial, and the nicest of all.





14802 (Jubilee) - The first 8mm case with display case back exposing the amazing 2121 movement. The clasp is now single-fold. The plain rectangular shape clasp is very comfortable as there is no protruding edges like the newer AP logo single-fold clasp. For a smaller wrist like mine, I swap the orientation of the clasp to achieve better wearing comfort. The petite tapisserie dial is equally mesmerising as the original 5402.







15202 (pre-2012) - Same case size as 14802. Major design change in the dial, rotor engraving, and sporting the new AP logo single-fold clasp. With the shorter hour markers, arabic numbering on the outer ring, white box around the date aperture and the grand tapisserie dial, the entire watch looks even more sportier. The 3 dial colours (charcoal, slate-blue and white) offer good choices. The AP logo clasp doesn't wear as comfortable but it sure is elegant. The engraving of the rotor is tasteful.





15202 (2012) - As many have put, it is as close to the original as you can get for the jumbo. We see the return of double-stick 12 o'clock marker and AP@6, as well as the famed petite-tappiserie dial. The blue dial has a new shade of blue which is not quite near the original. I still feel the original dial colour is somewhat mysterious and more attractive. The little squares on the dial seem to be spaced a little far apart from each other compared to the original petite tapisserie dial. The font used is also changed. The result is a more modern and technical feel as opposed to the more classical feeling of the original design. The dark-blue date wheel with white numbering is however a welcomed detail which adds to the cohesiveness of the entire dial. The new rotor engraving is nice but feels more "industrial" compared to the previous model. The bracelet has been reworked with thicker size (same size or "flushed" with the lug-end of the watch case... previous model has a bracelet thinner than the lug). The clasp is now an enhanced butterfly clasp. The new bracelet has somehow given this revised jumbo a much bolder presence than the previous models, and it does give a more solid feeling in the hand.







How about the 15300 and 15400?

With the in-house 3120 movement, they come with a slightly thicker watch case and thicker bracelet. These add to a more substantial feeling and a bolder wrist presence compared to the jumbos. The modern models also have 60hr power reserve (as compared to the 38hr on the jumbo), quick-set date and second hand, which provide convenience and a sense of interaction assuring the wearer that the watch is ticking! As for 39mm vs 41mm, my take is that there is no real pros and cons here, it only depends on individual preference of size. As a matter of fact, the design of the RO's integrated steel bracelet makes the entire watch wears like a... bracelet. I think any size from 33mm - 44mm would look great on the wrist as long as the watch matches the apparel and style.

A pvd-ed 15300. Not the best example... but it's kinda cool..


15400. The bigger case size wears quite balanced on my 6.75" wrist. The new bracelet allows more room for adjustment too. (The bracelet in the photo has not been adjusted).


A quick shot of my wife's Lady RO on my wrist! Not really out of place though in terms of size except for the diamonds...


Hope these info and experience of mine is helpful for the discussion and for anyone who has yet to firm up his/her mind for a Royal Oak

Great information comparing the different references. Thanks for sharing. What a disgrace to see that A-series so over polished on the case back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Watches are the new currency!

[yonggoh]

My 15202 says hi :)

[edo]

Great post orangedial

[gbany]

Thank you very much Mike (congratulations on your new watch!), Dino944, Scott, Adam and Wayne for the excellent explanation. Thank you all for your time.

I am used to and find comfortable the rectangular clasp below. I have not tried the AP logo one but I can appreciate Wayne's concerns. Can the AP logo be swapped for the rectangular one? With respect to the butterfly clasp, I personally find that it is a little bulky underneath the wrist to the point of being uncomfortable. Well, is probably all a matter of personal preferences.

All the best,

gb

[Dino944]

Originally Posted by orangedial

Although one may wear slightly differently from another, they are all winners in their own rights.

15202 (2012) - The new rotor engraving is nice but feels more "industrial" compared to the previous model.

Hope these info and experience of mine is helpful for the discussion and for anyone who has yet to firm up his/her mind for a Royal Oak

Fantastic comparison Wayne!!! Also some great photos and you are spot on with your descriptions and experiences. Regarding rotors I really like the 14802 Jubilee and how they incorporated the bezel design into its rotor. As for the pre-2012 15202 rotors I always thought they were a bit too floral and maybe more suitable for their dress watches than ROs. So I didn't mind the "more industrial" look of the 2012 15202 rotor. Just my 2 cents. Again great write up regarding the evolution of the Jumbo.

[craniotes]

Originally Posted by yonggoh

My 15202 says hi :)

Wow.

Regards,
Adam

[TSW]

Talk about a enabling thread

[kilyung]

Gorgeous watch!