I'll never purchase All-Clad cookware again!

[2careless]

I'm really really surprised that there is no consumer protection agencies in the USA. If they do this kind of false / misleading advertisement in Oz, there will be consequences for the company from our consumer watchdog.

So if the company decides you have kicked up enough fuss and they offer to refund, are you going to fold and keep quiet?

BTW, there are many US companies changing their product description to "Assembled in USA" to mislead - they just pack the contents into boxes in USA, maybe just fit a little part into the main product - while the main product is still made overseas.

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by 2careless

I'm really really surprised that there is no consumer protection agencies in the USA. If they do this kind of false / misleading advertisement in Oz, there will be consequences for the company from our consumer watchdog.

So if the company decides you have kicked up enough fuss and they offer to refund, are you going to fold and keep quiet?

BTW, there are many US companies changing their product description to "Assembled in USA" to mislead - they just pack the contents into boxes in USA, maybe just fit a little part into the main product - while the main product is still made overseas - e.g. Cross pens.

Kai, there are consumer advocacy agencies. David (ducatidoc) pointed me to a couple of them in his post. Our state's Attorney General office has a division for consumer protection, which includes deceptive business practices. For now, I'm focused on getting info to them. They will forward the matter to relevant agencies at their discretion, and they may see fit to contact All-Clad to facilitate some resolution.

If they do offer a refund or exchange I think I will let the matter rest and consider myself the wiser. It takes a lot of time and energy to keep kicking up that fuss and I'm neglecting the children again!.

[rsg]

Originally Posted by Lisa

How can they say this stuff when they're NOT making all of their products this way? What BS. How is this even legal?

I think "bonded" is the key word here. They don't claim to make all of their cookware in the US, just the bonded stuff (actually they don't claim all bonded cookware is made in the US, they just describe the way that it is inspected at their PA plant).

Sorry for your troubles, hopefully they will resolve this to your satisfaction.

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by rsg

I think "bonded" is the key word here. They don't claim to make all of their cookware in the US, just the bonded stuff (actually they don't claim all bonded cookware is made in the US, they just describe the way that it is inspected at their PA plant).

Sorry for your troubles, hopefully they will resolve this to your satisfaction.

Richard, I think you're right. "Bonded" is carefully inserted in their "Made in America" references. Apparently my made in China pan is not made of bonded metal. I'm guessing that the "bonded" term would slip past a lot of people who peruse the website, but it may be enough to clear them of any responsibility. Similarly, their descriptions of what items are outsourced mention in a "for example" kind of way "tools," "accessories," non-bonded components and "lids."

Is an entire 16 inch roasting pan considered a "component?"

I still say, it's unclear form their website information that the item I bought isn't made in the USA. All Clad really wants customers to assume that it is.

[Art161]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Boycotting the brand would unfairly punish the people of that very depressed region. A better course of action would be to continue to buy, but make sure to buy only product manufactured in PA.

That's debatable. If you boycott the brand and make it clear you are doing so because of the products they make in China, and they then switch that production to PA, you could create jobs in the USA. Hard to say what the outcome of a boycott would be.

[Lol-x]

I went to the http://www.all-clad.com website.

It is one of the worst web-sites I've seen, full of spin with close to zero facts.

Interestingly they have a search engine facility on their home page so I typed in "China" and guess what...................

Server Error in '/' Application.
The resource cannot be found

Then I went to the FAQ's (frequently asked questions):
14. Is All-Clad made in the USA?

..........dribble....dribble.......dribble.
Again just spin, spin, spin.

One quite alarming aspect of the spin was this:

All-Clad items manufactured overseas are subjected to...... stringent third party testing to ensure products are free of lead or any other contaminations.

So you potentially have the situation, for all one knows, where this company All-Clad is relying upon some unknown third world backyard company in China to ensure that there is no lead in the cookware. How is that for confidence in your cookware

This company needs to be looked at very carefully for it's spin doctoring.

Heaven forbid they might actually state "China" on their website as to do so might actually be stating a real fact

[Lol-x]

Here is All-Clad's customer service email address:

info@allclad.com

How about everyone just send them a friendly email.

All you have to ask is:
_________
TO: The Company President
Why don't you identify on your web-site exactly which products are made in CHINA???????????
_________

Let us see if they can come to grips with that fact!!!!!!

You could also say that your friend got stooged and we want justice!!!!!

[ducatidoc]

Not to change to subject, but on a related note: if you are getting any type of of prosthetic work at your dentist's( bridgework/crowns, implant restorations, removable partials, etc) keep in mind that sending these items to China for fabrication is rampant throughout the industry nowadays. It is practically de riguer at the "chain" dental outfits that set up in/near malls and shopping centers to use laboratories that sub out their fabrication work in this manner. Many solo practitoners do as well, some unwittingly.

Sadly, there is no way for you, the patient, to know if that's been done, other than to ask what laboratory your dentist will be using, and then verifying on your own if that laboratory engages in such a practice. Again, it's not illegal, and some would argue it's not even unethical, but as with all Chinese-made items, you have to be concerned with what actually goes into the metal alloys.

Good rule of thumb: if the practice offers crowns at bargain rates, they're Chinese-made.

[rr-nyc]

Which model All-Clad do you have?

Mine are 4years old and none say made in China anywhere. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that Emeril (by All-Clad) is made in China as they don't have the same feel or weight

[prc117f]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Here is All-Clad's customer service email address:

info@all-clad.com

How about everyone just send them a friendly email.

All you have to ask is:
TO: The Company President
Why don't you identify on your web-site exactly which products are made in CHINA???????????

Let us see if they can come to grips with that fact!!!!!!

You could also say that your friend got stooged and we want justice!!!!!

Just say that word is spreading on the Rolex forums that all Clad is made in china

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by prc117f

Just say that word is spreading on the Rolex forums that all Clad is made in china

Not just here, but when Google gets hold of this.........word will be out across the entire world

Anyone doing a Google search for All-Clad will come up with "China"

Register you email here.......I'm #1

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

Which model All-Clad do you have?

Mine are 4years old and none say made in China anywhere. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that Emeril (by All-Clad) is made in China as they don't have the same feel or weight

Well, from what I'm learning if the cookware says "Made in USA" on the bottom you've got the good stuff. If it is unmarked, like mine, then it's not made in the USA.

The model I have is called the "Roti-Pan" open rectangular roaster. Model number is 5016. I've not been able to even look it up on the All-Clad website as I get the "unavailable' message like Steve describes when I try to search for it.

[Skullring]

Sorry to hear of your troubles Lisa. I have All Clad that are probably at least 10 years old and I really like them very nice heavy durable cookware. I didn't know that some of their products are made in China. Very disappointing that they don't disclose this better.

I hope it all works out for you.

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Here is All-Clad's customer service email address:

info@allclad.com

How about everyone just send them a friendly email.

All you have to ask is:
_________
TO: The Company President
Why don't you identify on your web-site exactly which products are made in CHINA???????????
_________

Let us see if they can come to grips with that fact!!!!!!

You could also say that your friend got stooged and we want justice!!!!!

That'd probably get results. What kind, I'm almost afraid to think about. Will the All-Clad Black Maria show up in front of my house tomorrow?

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by Skullring

Sorry to hear of your troubles Lisa. I have All Clad that are probably at least 10 years old and I really like them very nice heavy durable cookware. I didn't know that some of their products are made in China. Very disappointing that they don't disclose this better.

I hope it all works out for you.

Thanks. It's really all about disclosure.

[unclesallie]

Wow! Remind me not to pi** you off, Lisa! Amazing..you have mobilized an entire army of 'truth in consumer' advocates. All-Clad beware!

I might add that the Pa. Attorney General might help. Tom Corbett was just elected The Gov....but he's atty general until he's sworn in...his Office of Consumer Advocate will very likely help you since this is a Pa. manufacturer falsely advertising......

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/consumers.aspx

I can tell you (as a Pa. licensed atty.) that Pa. has a nasty unfair and deceptive trade and practices Act, that has teeth....I think a threat under that Act would suffice:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploa...tion%20Law.pdf

Finally, if you are REALLY pi**ed off, and don't get satisfaction that way, I'd be happy to represent you, pro bono......but try other options first, as I get tired, just thinking about suing a big company with teams of staff counsel.

Best,
(Pennsylvania) Dan

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by unclesallie

Wow! Remind me not to pi** you off, Lisa! Amazing..you have mobilized an entire army of 'truth in consumer' advocates. All-Clad beware!

I might add that the Pa. Attorney General might help. Tom Corbett was just elected The Gov....but he's atty general until he's sworn in...his Office of Consumer Advocate will very likely help you since this is a Pa. manufacturer falsely advertising......

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/consumers.aspx

I can tell you (as a Pa. licensed atty.) that Pa. has a nasty unfair and deceptive trade and practices Act, that has teeth....I think a threat under that Act would suffice:

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploa...tion%20Law.pdf

Finally, if you are REALLY pi**ed off, and don't get satisfaction that way, I'd be happy to represent you, pro bono......but try other options first, as I get tired, just thinking about suing a big company with teams of staff counsel.

Best,
(Pennsylvania) Dan

Hey, Dan. I must defer credit to Steve for initiating the idea to mobilize with an email campaign.

Thank you very much for the links and your very good information. I didn't hear back from All Clad today as hoped, but I'll be glad to have the weekend to ponder a course of action.

Appreciate your pro bono offer. I know you mean it. I've never hired an attorney in my life and you'd be a fine first one.

[Lion]

Lisa...go get em!!!

[Lucy Diamond]

Lisa,what collection does the pan you bought belong to?

I have the copper core and they are all stamped "Made in the USA" on the bottom.Not doubting you whatsoever,just curious.I was a professional chef and am very picky about my kitchen utensils.I just adore how these perform for me cooking at home and am disappointed that Al-Clad have done this.What is stamped on the bottom of your pan?

[BarkMaster]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Register you email here.......I'm #1

To All-Clad:

I find the information on your website to be purposefully vague and deceptive.

Since I can't trust what is truly made in the USA and specifically what is made in China, I will not be purchasing your products.

Sincerely,
<edited>

I'm #2, I guess

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by Lucy Diamond

Lisa,what collection does the pan you bought belong to?

I have the copper core and they are all stamped "Made in the USA" on the bottom.Not doubting you whatsoever,just curious.I was a professional chef and am very picky about my kitchen utensils.I just adore how these perform for me cooking at home and am disappointed that Al-Clad have done this.What is stamped on the bottom of your pan?

The pan I purchased is called a "Roti-Pan," but I couldn't tell you what collection it belongs to, or if it is part of any particular collection at all. I've tried a few times today to further research the item on the All-Clad website, but I can't even find the item. It doesn't show up using their search function, either. There are no markings on the pan whatsoever that identify where it was made. Just the "All-Clad" logo embossed on the handles.

[onkyo]

Originally Posted by Lisa

The pan I purchased is called a "Roti-Pan," but I couldn't tell you what collection it belongs to, or if it is part of any particular collection at all. I've tried a few times today to further research the item on the All-Clad website, but I can't even find the item. It doesn't show up using their search function, either. There are no markings on the pan whatsoever that identify where it was made. Just the "All-Clad" logo embossed on the handles.

Is this it ? --> http://www1.bloomingdales.com/catalo...RE-_-n-_-n-_-n

[Art161]

And if All-Clad doesn't come through, you can contact the French company (Groupe SEB) that owns All-Clad.

http://www.groupeseb.com/seb/en/prof...ess/front.aspx

Perhaps Thierry de La Tour d'Artaise, the Chairman and CEO of Groupe SEB, would be most unhappy with the negative publicity being given to All-Clad on the Internet. Then again, maybe he doesn't give a hoot about Americans and their quirky notion of fair disclosure.

[rsg]

Originally Posted by ducatidoc

Not to change to subject, but on a related note: if you are getting any type of of prosthetic work at your dentist's( bridgework/crowns, implant restorations, removable partials, etc) keep in mind that sending these items to China for fabrication is rampant throughout the industry nowadays. It is practically de riguer at the "chain" dental outfits that set up in/near malls and shopping centers to use laboratories that sub out their fabrication work in this manner. Many solo practitoners do as well, some unwittingly.

Sadly, there is no way for you, the patient, to know if that's been done, other than to ask what laboratory your dentist will be using, and then verifying on your own if that laboratory engages in such a practice. Again, it's not illegal, and some would argue it's not even unethical, but as with all Chinese-made items, you have to be concerned with what actually goes into the metal alloys.
Good rule of thumb: if the practice offers crowns at bargain rates, they're Chinese-made.

I develop medical devices for a living and I can have an injection mold manufactured in China for about 1/8th the cost of having a mold made here and it will come in 3 weeks earlier than if manufactured here in the US.
I'm talking about serious devices such as replacement heart valves.

[ducatidoc]

Originally Posted by rsg

I develop medical devices for a living and I can have an injection mold manufactured in China for about 1/8th the cost of having a mold made here and it will come in 3 weeks earlier than if manufactured here in the US.
I'm talking about serious devices such as replacement heart valves.

I don't doubt that for a second. My best friend is a director at Medtronic
and he relates similar stories constantly. There is no doubt that Chinese labor is less than 1/10 the cost of similar labor in the US.

But you at least know that the manufacturing is being performed in China and have set up and reviewed all of the relevant protocul and QA parameters. Many of the dentists have no idea that they're being subbed overseas -even less have a clue what goes into their metal alloys. I use only one lab for all of my metal-work and can tell you the exact composition of every different casting. (Not bragging, just in a fortuitous situation.) The lab is only 25 miles away, and I can pop in anytime to check up on any procedures they're doing. Probably less than 20 % of private practtioners can make that claim and of that number, 1/2 of them own in-house laboratories (an overhead nightmare unless you have enormous volume)

The point of my post was not necessarily to scare anyone, but to show how pervasive the Made in China phenomenon has become.

[TheDude]

Originally Posted by rsg

I develop medical devices for a living and I can have an injection mold manufactured in China for about 1/8th the cost of having a mold made here and it will come in 3 weeks earlier than if manufactured here in the US.
I'm talking about serious devices such as replacement heart valves.

Exactly. I was going to address this but decided not to, but since it was brought up...

There are only two reasons why this All-Clad thing is a big deal:

-You would want to buy American made to support jobs/workers
-Xenophobic prejudice against Chinese goods


As rsg points out, -countless- IMPORTANT things are made in China for us. Heart valves, components in complex control systems, structural elements in buildings, etc... I don't see people standing up and sounding the alarm for those items.

I had initially assumed that the driver behind all of this was to buy American to protect jobs, but the discourse is definitely leaning in the direction of the latter reason.


Without a lab test proving these specific products from China are inferior, any negative assumption one might make is purely an artifact of American media slant.

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by onkyo

Is this it ? --> http://www1.bloomingdales.com/catalo...RE-_-n-_-n-_-n

My roaster does look like that one, and includes the rack, but it's referred to by a different name; "Roti-Pan." They're calling this one a Petite French Rotisserie Pan. And I know prices vary, but mine was priced higher at Williams Sonoma. Let me see if I can find it from the WS site.

Here it is, I'm pretty sure. But they dropped the price from last year.

http://www.williams-sonoma.com/produ...e-thanksgiving

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Exactly. I was going to address this but decided not to, but since it was brought up...

There are only two reasons why this All-Clad thing is a big deal:

-You would want to buy American made to support jobs/workers
-Xenophobic prejudice against Chinese goods


As rsg points out, -countless- IMPORTANT things are made in China for us. Heart valves, components in complex control systems, structural elements in buildings, etc... I don't see people standing up and sounding the alarm for those items.

I had initially assumed that the driver behind all of this was to buy American to protect jobs, but the discourse is definitely leaning in the direction of the latter reason.


Without a lab test proving these specific products from China are inferior, any negative assumption one might make is purely an artifact of American media slant.

I'll reiterate - my motivation behind all of this IS to buy American to protect jobs. Secondary to that, All-Clad needs to be more clear about the manufacture of its goods since it touts its products as being American made.

But I do want to throw this out - from a Mom perspective - seems like there have been quite a few recalls in recent years of toys made in China (even sidewalk chalk, because I had that particular Wal-Mart product in my home at the time of recall) because of their lead content. I really have no idea what kind of quality controls are in place, but I'd think they're not being followed if that many recalls are coming out. At least, not in the toy making business.

[TheDude]

Sure. The milk thing too. However, people were -executed- as a result of the milk debacle in China.

That's far better motivation than the hand slappings we dish out as punishment in the US.

Playing Devil's Advocate, we've had our fair share of dangerous products sicken and hurt people too. Let's not let the media decide for us before we see data/facts.

[Lisa]

Originally Posted by TheDude

Sure. The milk thing too. However, people were -executed- as a result of the milk debacle in China.

That's far better motivation than the hand slappings we dish out as punishment in the US.

Playing Devil's Advocate, we've had our fair share of dangerous products sicken and hurt people too. Let's not let the media decide for us before we see data/facts.

Okay, Devil's Advocate - I respect your position. And for purely self-centered reasons, I do hope to see this thread continue and to learn what others think of the situation with All-Clad.