Can anyone push me in the direction of Patek.

[Top_Clock]

Now. What if I needed a car to travel is the desert or in the mud.
Would you still answer rolls royce? mercedes G or Landrover would be better.
Or what if I need a car rhat drives 335 km\h and goes from 0 to 100 in less than 3seconds.
The rolls would be a bad car.

Just in case you didn't know, RR Ghost makes 0-100 less then 5seconds
So it's enough for me! So i can drive as fast as supercar does, but with supreme comfort.

[Top_Clock]

Same story for warches. What do you want from your watch?
Superb finishing? in that case rolex is crap.
They must keep very good time? rolex is good but my zenith el primero
gets better results.

Please don't say Rolex is crap in case of finishing. This is not true.
With new rolex movements they can beat zenith el primero.

[texex91]

Cannot push you towards Patek.

Think you would probably be best with Rolex for a while.

Branch out into some other brands, and eventually end up with Patek (maybe).

Best of luck on your decision and welcome.

[genghis7]

Originally Posted by unknown

no they are not the best.
Very good but not the best.

Let me ask you a question. Who makes the best car.
You might answer rolls royce. And if i was looking for luxury you might be right.
But what about bentley?
Now. What if i needed a car to travel is the desert or in the mud.
Would you still answer rolls royce? Mercedes g or landrover would be better.
Or what if i need a car rhat drives 335 km\h and goes from 0 to 100 in less than 3seconds.
The rolls would be a bad car.



Same story for warches. What do you want from your watch?
Superb finishing? In that case rolex is crap.
They must keep very good time? Rolex is good but my zenith el primero
gets better results.

It must be strong? You can also try panerai.

Reliable? Do not underestimate a cheap valjoux 7750.

👍👍👍👍

[unknown]

Originally Posted by Top_Clock

Please don't say Rolex is crap in case of finishing. This is not true.
With new rolex movements they can beat zenith el primero.

I have Rolex and love them so don't get me wrong but when you compare the movements with Patek or Lange movements, than they are crap.
And I mena when you compare the finishing, I'm not talking about reliability


concerning the El Primero ... these are pics I took long ago









Well I do prefer the El Primero Daytona above the inhouse Daytona

Again, the quality aside ... but the looks of the older daytona's movement are imo nicer

[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Lastly, nobody needs to be pushed to a top watch house--they are drawn or pulled to them.

+1!

Cheers.

[Awesome Jim]

Good morning!

You have to know that both brands are phenomenal but intended for different purposes (You wouldn't want to take your Ferrari to war or your tank to the racetrack).

The Rolex is perhaps the most problem-free, robust watch that the Swiss have created. The Patek Philippe gets the nod from most watch manufacturers as the highest quality watches made in term of craftsmanship and attention to detail. ( 4-6 months to manufacture one dial, 10 months to 7 years to manufacture one watch.

You can proudly hand down either watch through several generations: IMHO, the perfect collection has a sports Rolex and a complicated Patek, (of course there are many possible additions. J

[eric23]

Originally Posted by Awesome Jim

Good morning!

You have to know that both brands are phenomenal but intended for different purposes (You wouldn't want to take your Ferrari to war or your tank to the racetrack).

The Rolex is perhaps the most problem-free, robust watch that the Swiss have created. The Patek Philippe gets the nod from most watch manufacturers as the highest quality watches made in term of craftsmanship and attention to detail. ( 4-6 months to manufacture one dial, 10 months to 7 years to manufacture one watch.

You can proudly hand down either watch through several generations: IMHO, the perfect collection has a sports Rolex and a complicated Patek, (of course there are many possible additions. J

Welcome to TRF Jim!

[Awesome Jim]

Thks, Eric. I'm liking your new picture! J

[eric23]

Originally Posted by Awesome Jim

Thks, Eric. I'm liking your new picture! J

Thanks!

[bjackson]

Originally Posted by bardm

Hi all.

I was almost set on getting a Patek 5712, but wanted to try on a Rolex Day-Date II first, just to be sure. Well I really liked the DD but I still love the 5712.

However I have lately begun to doubt that the movents of PP is so special as I have allways believed them to be. (For instance not hacking, can't change the date at night without damaging movement and so on)

It's not that the above features are that important to me, but it leaves the impression that the movements isn't top notch.

Can anyone with techical knowledge explain to me what makes the Patek movements so supreme? (And please don't tell me that they have tradition or history becaurse Rolex also have that and it doesn't make the movements -objectively - any better)

I would love to love Patek. Please push me in the right direction and remove any doubt

Hi Bardm
I would not in any way try to push you to any watch manufacturer, to get an idea of Patek spend some time on youtube and have a look at the various videos this should start to give you an idea as to why lots of us love Patek. I love Rolex like lots of us it was the Rolex brand that got me hooked but when you learn more and more you understand the various levels that each watch manufacturer is at and for me Patek is the top of the mountain but thats the great thing everone has his or her opinion
bruce

[bardm]

If feel I should clear up a couple of points, since I obviously didn't get it right the first time.

When I said "push me" it was meant humorously. But humor often don't get through in writing I'm afraid. I don't want, nor expect, anyone to "push me" in any direction of course, but I would like your thoughts, opinions and arguments.

Yes , I am drawn to Rolex. But lately I have been more drawn to Patek. In no way I need "help" to feel Pateks attraction. But beeing an engineer I needed some "hard facts" to support my decision before commiting such an amount of cash. Acting on feelings only is not what I'm used to do, and to be honest I'm not a watch movement expert. (Which I expect is just as true for many others at this forum.) That's why I asked for arguments for why Patek movements are so great.

In no way I was implying (or wanted to imply) that Patek movents are not great.

Nor did I want to deminish Rolex movements which I think are great in their own right.

I do admit that some of the reason I needed "hard facts" was because of the lack of a hacking feature, which made me worry a little if I was making the right decision.

In retrospect I obviously should have reread and refined my post before posting posting, but in the end I got a lot of useful input. Thank you all for that.

[Gagebuilder]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Based on your posts and lack of understanding of Patek Philippe my suggestion is for you not to bother as I definitely do not think they are for you. I think you should stick to Rolex and I mean that wholeheartedly. Perhaps if you spent time learning about them and truly understood the level of quality they represent I would post differently. Not meant to be a slam just an honest opinion. Patek aren't for everyone nor is any watch brand.

Hey Ken ...

What's a good way to get quality information about Patek?

What are some good sources?

I searched my local libraries' database (more than 30 libraries) for some of the books that have been written about PP, but they have none.

As these books are in the hundreds of dollars to purchase, I would like to pick up the ones that are considered the "better" references.

Any info. you (or anyone else's input, please) can provide would certainly be appreciated.


I ask because, as a side note, Ken, I was curious for more info. on the movement that was in the Ulysse Nardin Sonata that Casa D'oro had. I found conflicting info of the movement, that it is made in house by UN, or if it's a modified ETA, or if it's made by Christophe Claret, as he as made some "chiming movements" for UN. I still don't know the truth and I doubt I'd get the full story asking at a dealer.

Hence, why I'm hoping for quality references.

Thanks Guys!

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Gagebuilder

Hey Ken ...

What's a good way to get quality information about Patek?

What are some good sources?

I searched my local libraries' database (more than 30 libraries) for some of the books that have been written about PP, but they have none.

As these books are in the hundreds of dollars to purchase, I would like to pick up the ones that are considered the "better" references.

Any info. you (or anyone else's input, please) can provide would certainly be appreciated.


I ask because, as a side note, Ken, I was curious for more info. on the movement that was in the Ulysse Nardin Sonata that Casa D'oro had. I found conflicting info of the movement, that it is made in house by UN, or if it's a modified ETA, or if it's made by Christophe Claret, as he as made some "chiming movements" for UN. I still don't know the truth and I doubt I'd get the full story asking at a dealer.

Hence, why I'm hoping for quality references.

Thanks Guys!

Doug - good to hear from you my friend. As for the UN I have no idea about thier movements so can't help in that department. As for Patek books, I can recommend one but must say it is quite expensive. Here is a link to John Reardon's Book: http://www.patekphilippeinamerica.com/

Cheers, Ken

[Gagebuilder]

Thanks Ken!

I can look around, hopefully I'll find one pre-owed, if not, Christmas isn't too far off, even if it'll be a gift from me, to me.

As for the UN, I don't know if an owner would even know. I do know there are 2 members here who have owned and already sold them. I need to put together a couple PM's.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by Gagebuilder

Thanks Ken!

I can look around, hopefully I'll find one pre-owed, if not, Christmas isn't too far off, even if it'll be a gift from me, to me.

As for the UN, I don't know if an owner would even know. I do know there are 2 members here who have owned and already sold them. I need to put together a couple PM's.

Doug try Greg aka Mosco.

[FremStar]

Originally Posted by bardm

Hi all.

I was almost set on getting a Patek 5712, but wanted to try on a Rolex Day-Date II first, just to be sure. Well I really liked the DD but I still love the 5712.

However I have lately begun to doubt that the movents of PP is so special as I have allways believed them to be. (For instance not hacking, can't change the date at night without damaging movement and so on)

It's not that the above features are that important to me, but it leaves the impression that the movements isn't top notch.

Can anyone with techical knowledge explain to me what makes the Patek movements so supreme? (And please don't tell me that they have tradition or history becaurse Rolex also have that and it doesn't make the movements -objectively - any better)

I would love to love Patek. Please push me in the right direction and remove any doubt

I am a little late with my response, however, the 5712 is a fantastic timepiece and and a great semi-entry level Patek timepiece to own to acquaint yourself with the brand! ;-)

[bardm]

Originally Posted by FremStar

I am a little late with my response, however, the 5712 is a fantastic timepiece and and a great semi-entry level Patek timepiece to own to acquaint yourself with the brand! ;-)

Thanks. That's an amazing picture!

[texex91]

Nice shot Sam!

[highdiver]

Well, put in simple and in language which most people understand, i always tell my friend who knows nothing about watch that rollie is like merc benz. being benz, its widely recogniseable by most people and indeed benz has been very reliable and it has produced many luxury, useful features which are good for day to day use.

however, PP is very much like ferrari and porsche. Its not made for everyone. benz owner may think that porsche especially entry models like cayman, 911 etc are very plain and not luxury. indeed, by looking at the dashboard and display, i am sure one may question why porsche is so plain and lack of this and that features and functions. However, a porsche or a ferrari is never meant to be a merc benz. Its a bit risky for one to challenge that benz is not a good car cos many owners will jump out and claim how reliable their ride are. Porsche and ferrari are however catered for a niche market who after owned a benz or beemer, is looking for ultimate self esteemed and looking for something which is more delicate and exclusive. So, I will say PP and AP are in different water altogether. its a bit hard for us to compare them per se. They are just meant for different segment.

[floater156]

I think most PP owners on this site only own the entry level models that don't have many complications. The PP grand complications are what gives the brand its reputation as having amazing movements. If you're only comparing the PP entry level with Rolex, then I'd go with Rolex as an every day wearer as they are more durable and can take a beating. I'd consider an entry level PP maybe once I retire and am not that active.

[HL65]

Originally Posted by floater156

I think most PP owners on this site only own the entry level models that don't have many complications. The PP grand complications are what gives the brand its reputation as having amazing movements. If you're only comparing the PP entry level with Rolex, then I'd go with Rolex as an every day wearer as they are more durable and can take a beating. I'd consider an entry level PP maybe once I retire and am not that active.

Is that right?

Not sure I ever considered my 5070P, 5960P or 5980R as entry level Pateks --live and learn I guess.

[brian8121]

Originally Posted by SteelerFan65

Is that right?

Not sure I ever considered my 5070P, 5960P or 5980R as entry level Pateks --live and learn I guess.

Ken don't you have a couple of entry level JLCs and Langes as well? I look forward to the day when you finally move on up

[S``]

There is an entry level patek?

[HL65]

Originally Posted by brian8121

Ken don't you have a couple of entry level JLCs and Langes as well? I look forward to the day when you finally move on up

[Ramiks]

Originally Posted by pfg1

Bard, I can scan and email to you a great article published in the last issue of the Patek Philippe owners magazine which describes in great detail the history and development of each of the eight PP in-house movements. You will enjoy it. Please send me a PM with your email....Good luck with your quest!

Hi
would highly appreciate it if you do me this favor and share with me that cataloug
my email is [email protected]
Thanks in advance and regards

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by floater156

I think most PP owners on this site only own the entry level models that don't have many complications. The PP grand complications are what gives the brand its reputation as having amazing movements. If you're only comparing the PP entry level with Rolex, then I'd go with Rolex as an every day wearer as they are more durable and can take a beating. I'd consider an entry level PP maybe once I retire and am not that active.

Personally I find terms like "only entry level" a bit offensive. I know my Aquanaut and Nautilus don't include any major complication, but do we really need to use "only entry level" as a discreption when discussing any type of watch?

[FremStar]

Originally Posted by floater156

I think most PP owners on this site only own the entry level models that don't have many complications. The PP grand complications are what gives the brand its reputation as having amazing movements. If you're only comparing the PP entry level with Rolex, then I'd go with Rolex as an every day wearer as they are more durable and can take a beating. I'd consider an entry level PP maybe once I retire and am not that active.

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Personally I find terms like "only entry level" a bit offensive. I know my Aquanaut and Nautilus don't include any major complication, but do we really need to use "only entry level" as a discreption when discussing any type of watch?

I agree with you Dan, describing mechanical timepieces in the range of those we usually discuss about as such sounds a bit snobbish and, indeed, rather offensive to those who work hard and spend their money in something they have a passion for. When you love watches the way most of us do, you never own an entry level model, you always own the one you want (or the ones for that matter) and you cherish it (or them).

...Of course, this statement excludes Ken's Patek's (and Lange's...and JLC's...)...they're just so uncomplicated and mainstream...

[topcat30093]

Originally Posted by floater156

I think most PP owners on this site only own the entry level models that don't have many complications. The PP grand complications are what gives the brand its reputation as having amazing movements. If you're only comparing the PP entry level with Rolex, then I'd go with Rolex as an every day wearer as they are more durable and can take a beating. I'd consider an entry level PP maybe once I retire and am not that active.

You obviously not looked at too many "Entry Level" Patek's, or compared them side by side with a Rolex movement, which is an excellent movement, but has lots of red (not sure of construction) parts in them.
Now compare that with what is probably Patek's work horse movement, the 324 and you would be very hard pushed to even say that Rolex comes anywhere near to the finish of it.

The 324 is fitted in most of the classic Calatrava's, Nautilus, Aquanaut as well as many of their annual calendars.

So based on these facts the "Entry Level" movement is one very versatile piece.