Dilemma - Kermit

[epicurus]

Is a slightly different "4" worth that much more to you?

[77T]

Originally Posted by 037

How often does this happen? Honest question. I recall seeing it once on TRF a year or two ago but that's it so far.



I'd imagine the buyer could take it to RSC and authenticate it pretty easily, especially if he knows the seller personally.



$10k is another watch or two. Papers just sit around. But, we all have different priorities.

Don’t know the stats.

What I mean is you don’t want to go through that - just buy complete sets if it’s a flat 4 Kermit one wants.


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[GsurgBM]

Love me a mk 1 flat four. Here’s my f4 serial sold in dec 2003.


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[L_S_SHOE]

Love the Kermit but can’t bring myself to pay the premium.


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[ronricks]

Originally Posted by PatRols

I have a trusted grey dealer who proposes me a F2xxx series flat four kermit, from original owner, all original pieces, never serviced, with box, but NO papers.

I could get it for a good deal (approx. $15k) but the no paper part stops me...

What do you guys think? should I pass?

Thanks!

The papers you would get from a service at a RSC would trump expired papers that are easily faked.

[Rado63]

Buy it and send to RSC for authentication get your paperwork that way.

[djgallo]

Originally Posted by ronricks

The papers you would get from a service at a RSC would trump expired papers that are easily faked.

1. Serious collectors want everything that came original to the watch. If it is missing the original Rolex warranty paperwork....it devalues the watch.

2. You state that the original Rolex warranty paperwork can be faked....well so can the RSC documents....anything can be faked....

3. RSC paperwork DOES NOT trump the original paperwork that came with the watch.

4. The RSC paperwork is better than nothing....I agree.

5. A flat four Kermit with original documents will be more valuable than one with just RSC paperwork. Both being genuine of course

6. OP needs to buy the seller and perform all of the due diligence to make a successful purchase.

[CDNWatchNut]

No papers, no big deal...they’d be expired anyway. The savings are much better spent on an RSC service.

[CDNWatchNut]

Originally Posted by ronricks

The papers you would get from a service at a RSC would trump expired papers that are easily faked.

this.

[dane75]

Agreed on the lack of papers not mattering as much if what you want is the watch and you have time to get it authenticated and/or trust the seller.

If you want the watch AND you're looking at the investment side (or if you're only looking at the investment side), the question isn't about a preference for original papers or service papers. The question is how the difference between original price/savings you got without the papers and the sales price without the papers (or with service papers) compares with the difference between the higher price for original papers with the watch and the sales price of that watch with the original papers. In other words, original papers don't mean bumpkiss unless the delta between acquisition and sale for a watch with such is greater than the delta between acquisition and sale for a watch without such but with service papers.

For me, I'm never going to get my original papers out and look lovingly at them. I'm going to enjoy my friggin' watch, but, then again, I get what I like and let the chips fall where they may in terms of whether it's an investment. To put it another way, my investment is in my enjoyment of the watch, not cellulose pulp sitting in a safe.

[mikkolopez]

If it was me, I’d ask the seller to come with me to RSC for authentication that way you’d know if it was fake or franken.
After everything is good, then pay for it and enjoy.


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[Gmt21]

Originally Posted by epicurus

Is a slightly different "4" worth that much more to you?

Or a Meters First or Red Submariner:) ....all subjective and that's why these watches command these prices. MTC

[Nikrnic]

If you know it's a true flat 4 and a keeper why not. The price is relevant w/o papers, even if you end up selling it. One owner and 'Very' Trusted seller sounds good. Save 10k and get an RSC tune up only. I wouldn't lose any sleep over it by not having papers knowing in reality I saved 10k. Thats probably what you need to ask yourself. So... sleep on it.

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[boogiebot]

Can’t you work a deal with the seller to have the watch sent back to RSC at your cost and then have RSC send you back paperwork to fully authenticate? Would this suffice as “papers”?


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[PatRols]

Originally Posted by boogiebot

Can’t you work a deal with the seller to have the watch sent back to RSC at your cost and then have RSC send you back paperwork to fully authenticate? Would this suffice as “papers”?


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I could probably do that, but RSC service papers are different from original papers.

Thing is that I never flipped any of my watches, so this should not matter... but I like to think I may have the option to do so for good value one day down the road.

[jaisonline]

This is one of those few “modern” watches that I would only buy w/ papers & retail tag. Then send right to RSC for maintenance. If would rather own a complete sharp 4 than incomplete flat 4 especially since recent service inserts have the flat 4.

[4vCoupe]

I bought my LV before all the hype and franken watch threads. It did not come with the original papers but it came with a photo copy of the original papers, recent RSC warranty and I purchased from a big trusted seller on here.

MK1 dial, F1xx serial, unfortunately the bezel was swapped at the service.



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[mailman]

Pass for me.

[Chrispare]

I bought a y serie without paper , had it serviced by Rolex headquarters in France and enjoy it since 2013
Price was 6000 euros

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Gaijin

I'd rather not if I was going to keep it forever and wear it.

As we all know the market is 10 grand more for papers.

If you like it and trust the seller get it. Have it serviced at the RSC. Insist that they don't change the bezel.

You'll now have papers in the sense of an RSC card.

This ^^^

[1William]

Hard pass. Too much money, too many possible issues down the road.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by [email protected]

For something like that, it would always bother me...

Takuya has one for right around the same price, with box/papers.

I agree. If you’re paying a premium for a flat 4... in my mind it needs to be a full set. Keep looking!

[CDNWatchNut]

I've seen a $10K premium mentioned a few times here for papers...is that actually a realistic assessment of the market value? If so, my mind is blown...I'd think maybe they're worth maybe an extra couple hundred bucks for those who place a meaningful value on them?? I can honestly say, I've never gone into my watch boxes to specifically look at warranty cards/papers for the joy of it, so it just seems that they're incredibly overvalued at $10K(at least they would be for me at that price).

[Norbert]

Yes, you're paying a premium for a flat four so it would need a premium set, which includes papers. How does one lose papers anyway? I always keep mine with the box.

[greenalexandre.]

If trust seller with warranty go for it !


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[snowvapor]

bought mine from TS without papers, got it serviced from RSC. Wearing everyday. Enjoy it.

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[Bullethead73]

Good deal in my opinion

[Meyrin]

Originally Posted by dricig

It's Just a 5 digit sub with a green bezel!
We are our own worst enemy.

I couldn't agree more! I´d never pay 15K for "a 5 digit sub with a green bezel!" But everybody should buy what they want if they have the money, and if the OP buys it I hope he enjoys it!

[SlowhandBuzz]

It's due for service anyhow. Get it serviced by RSC and you'll have it verified and with a service card showing serial. Just make sure they don't swap the bezel insert and you're good. You can't find a lot of non flats for that price in good condition these days.

[Boaters]

With all the hype and value I would what full set on that one.