Tudor Black Bay with ETA Movement

[Recondope]

Originally Posted by myporsche

Good info gents, I didn't know they did movement swaps. I guess some of the advantages of ETA's is it's durability, dependability, and ease of servicing. The Tudor GMT movement issues certainly don't help the in-house movement argument.

And Tudor movements are not in-house in the same vein as Rolex. Tudor movements are made by Kenissi, which from what I've read, is owned by Tudor, Chanel with 20% stake and a French-Swiss group that supplies components to the watch industry. The Kenissi movements are used by Tudor, Chanel, Breitling and Norqain. So, imho, similar to ETA, in that Kenissi supplies movements to several manufacturers.

[Old Expat Beast]

Just for reference/interest...my seven-year-old, unserviced Ranger with the same ETA/Tudor 2824 movement is putting up similar numbers to the Black Bay (bottom pic again for easy comparison).

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Irydium

Tudor has started to use Sellita movements in place of ETA on many of their T600 movements. Loses the Triovis regulator and uses incabloc instead of kif shock absorber so its basically an off the shelf movement with no modifications. Still well decorated and adjusted, but its luck of the draw now whether you get an ETA or Sellita. Not sure if this will affect your buying decision from a purist point of view.

Originally Posted by Recondope

And Tudor movements are not in-house in the same vein as Rolex. Tudor movements are made by Kenissi, which from what I've read, is owned by Tudor, Chanel with 20% stake and a French-Swiss group that supplies components to the watch industry. The Kenissi movements are used by Tudor, Chanel, Breitling and Norqain. So, imho, similar to ETA, in that Kenissi supplies movements to several manufacturers.

Good info

[Rick_Nashville]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

This one will be nine years old next month (purchased in HK December 2012, not by me). We've been around the world together, and on a few adventures. Never serviced. The excellent ETA movement still putting up great numbers and running like new. IMO, it's a pity they stopped supplying Tudor.

Fantastic watch, Adam. By odd coincidence, I too purchased a burgundy-bezel BB ETA in 2012, lol. At the time, Tudor watches weren't yet available in the US. I got this beauty from a fellow TRF member in New Zealand. Over the last 9 years, the watch has performed absolutely flawlessly for me! This photo is from a couple of winters ago.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by Sprezzatura!,

Hi Bas,

If a Tudor that contains an in-house movement goes in for service at RSC, do they automatically swap it out for a refurbished movement, regardless?

Thanks

Yes, unless it is a warranty problem then you'll get a new movement.

Originally Posted by dannyp

And would one have the option of paying extra for a brand new one?

No, that is not an option.

[dannyp]

This is a lot like what electronics makers (Apple, etc.) do when people have a phone issue. Which is why it seems like a huge branding misstep. The message here: There's nothing intrinsically special about your movement, and it's the equivalent of an expensive commodity like an iPhone.

Totally sends the wrong message as I see it. Or, perhaps it's just meant to encourage people to avoid RSC for Tudors and have them serviced independently.

[peterp]

Nice but to thick.

[Sprezzatura!,]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Yes, unless it is a warranty problem then you'll get a new movement.



No, that is not an option.

That’s shocking?!

I understand the logistical benefits for Rolex/Tudor, but I can’t see many customers being happy with that.

I think with that knowledge, I’d take a Tudor to an independent watch maker at service time.

When was the last time anyone was happy with a car garage swapping their engine out for a reconditioned one because it suited the dealerships service dept?

Probably a poor analogy, but you get where I’m coming from?

[slus]

Nice. I'm on 7 hard years with my ETA Pelagos and it keeps great time. I have noticed the power reserve isn't what it used to be so a service is likely in the future, but not until it negatively impacts me in some way (running out of reserve overnight)

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by dannyp

This is a lot like what electronics makers (Apple, etc.) do when people have a phone issue. Which is why it seems like a huge branding misstep. The message here: There's nothing intrinsically special about your movement, and it's the equivalent of an expensive commodity like an iPhone.

Totally sends the wrong message as I see it. Or, perhaps it's just meant to encourage people to avoid RSC for Tudors and have them serviced independently.

I totally agree. I remember hearing about this a few years ago, but I'd forgotten about it until this thread.

Personally I'm all for in-house movements as I'm of the opinion that a mechanical watch is a total anachronism that nobody in today's world actually needs, so therefore the "tool" element is completely redundant. So what we're left with is something that is basically functional jewellery. To me it's like owning a Ferrari - no-one really needs one, so it just wouldn't be the same for me if it had a Ford engine in it, even if the Ford power-plant was more powerful, more reliable, and/or cheaper to service than the Ferrari unit.

I'm not dismissing the ruggedness or serviceability (or even the performance) of ETA movements - not at all. I'm just of the opinion that I like my watches to be more than just fancy cases for generic, outsourced movements, even if that comes with more expensive servicing. ETAs and Sellitas have their place..., it's just not in anything over a couple of thousand IMO.

HOWEVER, there's no way on earth I'd want a refurbished movement from someone else's watch dropped into my watch at service time, purely out of principle, so in this SINGLE instance I can actually see the benefit of keeping the ETA. Awful idea from Tudor.

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Driver8

I totally agree. I remember hearing about this a few years ago, but I'd forgotten about it until this thread.

Personally I'm all for in-house movements as I'm of the opinion that a mechanical watch is a total anachronism that nobody in today's world actually needs, so therefore the "tool" element is completely redundant. So what we're left with is something that is basically functional jewellery. To me it's like owning a Ferrari - no-one really needs one, so it just wouldn't be the same for me if it had a Ford engine in it, even if the Ford power-plant was more powerful, more reliable, and/or cheaper to service than the Ferrari unit.

I'm not dismissing the ruggedness or serviceability (or even the performance) of ETA movements - not at all. I'm just of the opinion that I like my watches to be more than just fancy cases for generic, outsourced movements, even if that comes with more expensive servicing. ETAs and Sellitas have their place..., it's just not in anything over a couple of thousand IMO.

HOWEVER, there's no way on earth I'd want a refurbished movement from someone else's watch dropped into my watch at service time, purely out of principle, so in this SINGLE instance I can actually see the benefit of keeping the ETA. Awful idea from Tudor.

And I with you, my good sir . You hit the nail on the head in terms of what makes mechanical watches special. Which is what makes this all the more of a . Tudor itself is signaling that its in-house movements are but a completely interchangeable commodity.

However I don't know that I'd say I see a benefit, per se, in buying an ETA-powered Tudor. What I do see is a really good reason to find a really good independent Rolex/Tudor-trained watchmaker.

[George58]

Originally Posted by dannyp

and i with you, my good sir . You hit the nail on the head in terms of what makes mechanical watches special. Which is what makes this all the more of a . Tudor itself is signaling that its in-house movements are but a completely interchangeable commodity.

However i don't know that i'd say i see a benefit, per se, in buying an eta-powered tudor. What i do see is a really good reason to find a really good independent rolex/tudor-trained watchmaker.

plus two

[watchwatcher]

Great watch, Adam.

[mtherrmann]

Originally Posted by Sprezzatura!,

Hi Bas,

If a Tudor that contains an in-house movement goes in for service at RSC, do they automatically swap it out for a refurbished movement, regardless?

Thanks

I can confirm that Tudor does in fact swap out in-house movements when sent in for service. I had my BB58 serviced in April 2020. I dropped it off in person at the Rolex Building in NYC and when I received the confirmation email outlining what Rolex would do for service I called Rolex Service USA and specifically asked if they swap the movement or repair it. The agent replied that they would never swap the movement and that the movement would be serviced. When I went to pick the watch up 2 weeks later the agent informed me I received a "Geneva Movement" and he explained that means the movement was swapped out. I was of course disappointed and to me this really cheapens the Tudor watches with in-house movements. I have addressed this issue on the Rolex Forums in the past and it seems a 50/50 split. Some could care less and consider it a good thing that the movement is swapped. I disagree and think of the movement as a core part of the watch that should not be separated and should instead be serviced with only necessary parts replaced when necessary.

[Sprezzatura!,]

Originally Posted by mtherrmann

I can confirm that Tudor does in fact swap out in-house movements when sent in for service. I had my BB58 serviced in April 2020. I dropped it off in person at the Rolex Building in NYC and when I received the confirmation email outlining what Rolex would do for service I called Rolex Service USA and specifically asked if they swap the movement or repair it. The agent replied that they would never swap the movement and that the movement would be serviced. When I went to pick the watch up 2 weeks later the agent informed me I received a "Geneva Movement" and he explained that means the movement was swapped out. I was of course disappointed and to me this really cheapens the Tudor watches with in-house movements. I have addressed this issue on the Rolex Forums in the past and it seems a 50/50 split. Some could care less and consider it a good thing that the movement is swapped. I disagree and think of the movement as a core part of the watch that should not be separated and should instead be serviced with only necessary parts replaced when necessary.

Yes i agree with you.

I think you, i, and perhaps the 50% you talk about, like the idea of keeping the movement, as its the most important part of it.

I understand why RSC change the movement out, but i also think that other 50% who are for it, are like many non-enthusiasts (the majority who buy Tudor and other watches) who aren’t as fussed.

Thats not right that they told you one thing and did the opposite, especially as you were pro-active in asking about that specifically.

If i bought a Tudor with their own movement, i’d be taking it to a good independent watchmaker for its servicing needs.

[Rado63]

I have owned more than a few ETA based movements and all were excellent time keepers, all within COSC specs even if not sold as a chronometer spec watch. I would keep your Tudor watch with the ETA movement because it's basically a time proven and worthy combination.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by Sprezzatura!,

That’s shocking?!

I understand the logistical benefits for Rolex/Tudor, but I can’t see many customers being happy with that.

I think with that knowledge, I’d take a Tudor to an independent watch maker at service time.

When was the last time anyone was happy with a car garage swapping their engine out for a reconditioned one because it suited the dealerships service dept?

Probably a poor analogy, but you get where I’m coming from?

Good luck with an independent, if he even loses as much as 1 screw you'll have an issue. If you can't get parts it cannot get serviced.

But I agree, I strongly dislike this policy and would have loved to service them.

[Sprezzatura!,]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Good luck with an independent, if he even loses as much as 1 screw you'll have an issue. If you can't get parts it cannot get serviced.

But I agree, I strongly dislike this policy and would have loved to service them.

Hi Bas, i understand, but its no different to an independent who is servicing a vintage Rolex, surely?!

Hypothetically, if nothing is mislaid, its fine.

[Tikandtokalot]

Originally Posted by Rado63

I have owned more than a few ETA based movements and all were excellent time keepers, all within COSC specs even if not sold as a chronometer spec watch. I would keep your Tudor watch with the ETA movement because it's basically a time proven and worthy combination.

What he said.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by Sprezzatura!,

Hi Bas, i understand, but its no different to an independent who is servicing a vintage Rolex, surely?!

Hypothetically, if nothing is mislaid, its fine.

I disagree.
For vintage Rolex you can get parts on ebay, when servicing a watch you'll always need at least a few new parts. You're not going to find those parts for these Tudor in-house movements.

[Sprezzatura!,]

Originally Posted by SearChart

I disagree.
For vintage Rolex you can get parts on ebay, when servicing a watch you'll always need at least a few new parts. You're not going to find those parts for these Tudor in-house movements.

Ok, understood.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by watchwatcher

Great watch, Adam.

Thank you Larry

[SaintMickey]

It is "the one" for me when it comes to BB's...41mm 12.7mm thick and I like the Tudor Rose matching on dial and crown. Future/current classic.

[Ballzzz]

When this is under the cuff, all is well.



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[SaintMickey]

Originally Posted by myporsche

I don't understand what is so superior for using an off the shelf movement found in sub $500 watches rather than an in-house one with far better specs and modern technology, seriously asking since I don't know and never understood the hype of an "ETA Black Bay".

For me the thickness of the watch and "far better specs" doesn't mean anything on a $2600 watch...

I mean 70 hour PR versus 48 for one doesn't matter because unless I'm dead the watch isn't going to stop anyway. +/- a couple seconds means nothing to me either as I do not micromanage my watches.

That's just my 2cents.

[Watcheroo]

Love mine




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[garbanzo]

It’s a great watch, I’d know Mine is from 2014.

[soho]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

This one will be nine years old next month.

Great post Adam. Amazing that’s it’s been almost a decade. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed many Tudors and agree that this is one of the best.




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[AzHadEnuf]

My 2014 (purchased in’15) has been my companion on 1000’s of miles on trail, dozens of mountain summits, 1000’s of feet in vertical rock climbing and 1000’s of rounds on trap and skeet fields. When I got it I thought it would be a nice addition to mix into the rotation but it’s definitely become a mainstay. It’s never been serviced but is still running at -3 sec a day. Super comfortably, legible and reliable and who doesn’t love the smiley face.

[THC]

Beginning to really enjoy Tudor, as they are now what Rolex used to be. A tank of a watch and can easily be acquired