New collector challenges (gripes vs state of affairs)

[NK212]

If I may perhaps help, and give my experiences. I’m not suggesting this applies to you, but it may do …

I frequently find watches that I like really really like, but then can’t easily get. How have I found them? Because they are either well marketed, popular and frequently discussed, or both. It is because of these elements that I come across them in the first place. Frustrating, yes, but also self-fulfilling. The answer I have found is to enjoy the hobby of watches by exploring the unknown. Name every watch brand you can think of and I’d be impressed if you get to 50% of what is out there. The joy of this hobby for some is finding what works for you.

I’ll give you two examples:
1. I am trying to get hold of a non-date Submariner. Not because it’s hot and everyone wants a SS Sub, but because it’s perfect for what I am looking for right now. I am in line, along with everyone else in line at my AD.
2. Back in 2016 I was discovering/researching the history VC and fell in love with the Overseas, particularly the blue one. I was abroad one time and there was a blue one in the window next to where I was staying. I walked past it daily, stopped to look at it daily, then went in to try it on. Unfortunately it was just too big across my wrist. Nevertheless, when back in the UK I was still smitten by it and went to the boutique in London to have another go. They had one, I tried it on again … and concluded again it was still to broad across the wrist for me. I walked out empty handed.

Today, there is no chance to get that watch. Do I kick myself for not lifting it when I could, twice? Well the profit I could have made to sell it would have been nice had I known, but it wasn’t right for me so not really. Same reason that even if I could buy one now, it’s still going to be too broad across the wrist.

2022 I am continuing to explore the path less trodden. There are some true gems out there, available without waitlists, or games. The enjoyment is finding them and learning why they work for you. Some might turn out to be the next big thing (as that VC Overseas in blue did) in which case you can smile inside to yourself daily wearing something that people fresh to this hobby such as you are now, are complaining they can not get. Or maybe it won’t be the next big thing, and you instead wearing a watch that is yours, your researched and chose and perfect for you.

Some one here know that I now wear a Glashutte Original SeaQ. It’s perfect for me in many many ways, but gets 0.005% of the internet coverage of more ‘popular’ brands and models. So my advice to anyone new to this interest is broaden your horizons as much as you can. You will be amazed what’s out there. The guys at Horage with their Supersede are the latest to be intriguing me and would be well worth you looking at.

Most importantly I have learnt to enjoy the journey. Good luck!

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by shafran

Are they now so popular becasue others want them? or did noone ever hear of them before?

Human nature, some may call it 'herd mentality'. History shows this to be true time and again from Tulips to Euro / Yen / Dollars to... instead of things the species need today like energy. Again, it's just typical human nature imho.

[DJ2020]

As a collector for over 50 years I don't necessarily place cost or even rarity as a factor in my collecting. I have owned Breitling, Rolex, Omega etc. over the years. Actually quite a few of them come to think of it.

But as time goes on the accuracy and build quality is not such a spread as it once was. Sure, collectors nitpick as different aspects of each brand. Some of the newer collectors think there Brand/model is the watch to end all watches and there can't possibly be any better built. But people who know watches know this is not the case at all, Far from it. Or the investor group. Which I don't count as a "real" collector.

In recent years and the invention of new technology watches at a $1000 price point are matching and even exceeding accuracy standards set by $10,000 watches, Power reserves and water resistance are also exceeded or matched.

I have purchased 2 Longines Hydro Conquest recently(I have many). Both have the new L888.5 movement. This is exclusive to Longines. They are not COSC movements but based on the 2895-A2 movement equipped with a silicon hair spring. They are VERY well built, 300 meter watches that run consistently within 1 spd. They vary very little by position and have a 72 hour power reserve. Accuracy stays in spec for 60 hours before it starts to fall off.

I have also added to my collection a Hamilton 43 mm Navy scuba. It has ceramic bezel, 300 meter and a H10 (2824-2 based) with nivachron hair spring. 80 hour power reserve and IS the most accurate watch I have ever owned (save grand seiko) at +.125 spd.

Also added is a 46 mm Hamilton Frogman. Titanium with the same H10. Incredible accuracy and 1000 meter 3300 ft of water resistance.

My point being, There are a present more extraordinarily tough, well built watches on the market for a fraction of the cost that are very interesting to be had. All are much easier to get than high end pieces.

At present day, I think there are more high quality watches spread across the price spectrum than they ever has been in history. 40 years ago you did have to spend some significant dollars to get a high quality watch. And the "high" quality watch back then won't hold a candle to some of the ordinary watches of today. Just my thoughts.

[RoscoPico]

Definitely a bad time to start out in this hobby when it comes to certain brands. As a collector I hate that prices have appreciated on the ones I don't own and want lol, although I've done well with a few sales.

But I am probably in the spectrum of: enjoy watches, horology, and the hunt equally.
Some people fall into certain categories more than others.

Think about what drew you to the hobby, and build off of that I would say. If you're all about the hype, I'd try to acknowledge that and just move on truthfully. As far as great brands with history and top horology, thankfully there are still a plethora of them that are not hyped.

[Ichiran]

Fret not - many gurus at the main forum are 100% sure the grey price will drop below MSRP in a few months' time and we will get all our Resonance and Nautilus on the cheap real soon. Light at the end of the tunnel!

[DJ2020]

Originally Posted by NK212

Some one here know that I now wear a Glashutte Original SeaQ. It’s perfect for me in many many ways, but gets 0.005% of the internet coverage of more ‘popular’ brands and models. So my advice to anyone new to this interest is broaden your horizons as much as you can. You will be amazed what’s out there. The guys at Horage with their Supersede are the latest to be intriguing me and would be well worth you looking at.

Most importantly I have learnt to enjoy the journey. Good luck!

The Glashutte SeaQ is a awesome watch indeed. I'm sure a lot of people notice it. It is very nice. But there are a number of people who just like to have what others have as if it's the only one. To each there on. You do have a incredible watch with the SeaQ. PLEASE post pictures from time to time. I for one enjoy seeing something different.

[RoscoPico]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

I suppose there are many who want them because others want them. I know I want it because I want it and appreciate the aesthetics. Could care less of the hype train.

Don't be so sure about this, marketing hits deep.
btw you got some absolutely amazing responses to this thread. The above few replies (not including mine) are worth their weight in Sedna gold

[RoscoPico]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Fret not - many gurus at the main forum are 100% sure the grey price will drop below MSRP in a few months' time and we will get all our Resonance and Nautilus on the cheap real soon. Light at the end of the tunnel!

We both know there is 0 chance of this. Can you imagine the 2 you mentioned below msrp x 2 ?

[DJ2020]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Human nature, some may call it 'herd mentality'. History shows this to be true time and again from Tulips to Euro / Yen / Dollars to... instead of things the species need today like energy. Again, it's just typical human nature imho.

Nailed it Steven!!!

[2loaded]

Hang loose and wait for the call. It will happen.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by RoscoPico

We both know there is 0 chance of this. Can you imagine the 2 you mentioned below msrp x 2 ?

Make it 5

I'm waiting for the call for these 5:
Resonance
Automatique Lune
5270P green
5990/1R
5231G

[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by NK212

If I may perhaps help, and give my experiences. I’m not suggesting this applies to you, but it may do …

I frequently find watches that I like really really like, but then can’t easily get. How have I found them? Because they are either well marketed, popular and frequently discussed, or both. It is because of these elements that I come across them in the first place. Frustrating, yes, but also self-fulfilling. The answer I have found is to enjoy the hobby of watches by exploring the unknown. Name every watch brand you can think of and I’d be impressed if you get to 50% of what is out there. The joy of this hobby for some is finding what works for you.

I’ll give you two examples:
1. I am trying to get hold of a non-date Submariner. Not because it’s hot and everyone wants a SS Sub, but because it’s perfect for what I am looking for right now. I am in line, along with everyone else in line at my AD.
2. Back in 2016 I was discovering/researching the history VC and fell in love with the Overseas, particularly the blue one. I was abroad one time and there was a blue one in the window next to where I was staying. I walked past it daily, stopped to look at it daily, then went in to try it on. Unfortunately it was just too big across my wrist. Nevertheless, when back in the UK I was still smitten by it and went to the boutique in London to have another go. They had one, I tried it on again … and concluded again it was still to broad across the wrist for me. I walked out empty handed.

Today, there is no chance to get that watch. Do I kick myself for not lifting it when I could, twice? Well the profit I could have made to sell it would have been nice had I known, but it wasn’t right for me so not really. Same reason that even if I could buy one now, it’s still going to be too broad across the wrist.

2022 I am continuing to explore the path less trodden. There are some true gems out there, available without waitlists, or games. The enjoyment is finding them and learning why they work for you. Some might turn out to be the next big thing (as that VC Overseas in blue did) in which case you can smile inside to yourself daily wearing something that people fresh to this hobby such as you are now, are complaining they can not get. Or maybe it won’t be the next big thing, and you instead wearing a watch that is yours, your researched and chose and perfect for you.

Some one here know that I now wear a Glashutte Original SeaQ. It’s perfect for me in many many ways, but gets 0.005% of the internet coverage of more ‘popular’ brands and models. So my advice to anyone new to this interest is broaden your horizons as much as you can. You will be amazed what’s out there. The guys at Horage with their Supersede are the latest to be intriguing me and would be well worth you looking at.

Most importantly I have learnt to enjoy the journey. Good luck!

Great advice and thanks for sharing your account and experience.

[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by RoscoPico

Don't be so sure about this, marketing hits deep.
btw you got some absolutely amazing responses to this thread. The above few replies (not including mine) are worth their weight in Sedna gold

Yes I agree. These are exactly what I was hoping to hear but also to put out here as I suspect there are many others like me out there in a similar boat. It’s good for us all.

[NK212]

People know I am into watches and I get a lot of questions from friends and colleagues about what I think they should get. My single biggest piece of advice is always: Buy what you want to WEAR, not what you want to OWN. Think carefully about it as they are not always the same.

All the best!

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Fret not - many gurus at the main forum are 100% sure the grey price will drop below MSRP in a few months' time and we will get all our Resonance and Nautilus on the cheap real soon. Light at the end of the tunnel!

No one ever mentioned those brands. Don't act so childish.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

No one ever mentioned those brands. Don't act so childish.

Yes sport Pateks were mentioned. Go read up.

[RoscoPico]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Make it 5

I'm waiting for the call for these 5:
Resonance
Automatique Lune
5270P green
5990/1R
5231G

now that is funny
but pics when it happens !!!!!!!!!!!!

[NK212]

Originally Posted by DJ2020

The Glashutte SeaQ is a awesome watch indeed. I'm sure a lot of people notice it. It is very nice. But there are a number of people who just like to have what others have as if it's the only one. To each there on. You do have a incredible watch with the SeaQ. PLEASE post pictures from time to time. I for one enjoy seeing something different.

If you insist! This thread deserves some imagery anyway

C2E901A7-C8A2-45DF-82F7-9A84402AB666.jpeg

[PFmicro]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

I suppose there are many who want them because others want them. I know I want it because I want it and appreciate the aesthetics. Could care less of the hype train.

Appreciating and wanting to own are separate. Nothing is stopping you from appreciating any piece. The need/want to acquire is where emotion and reason can easily confound a person. It’s so obvious to someone looking in but invisible to the one caught up in it.

Why not visit a museum? Go and experience and appreciate some other art.

[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by PFmicro

Appreciating and wanting to own are separate. Nothing is stopping you from appreciating any piece. The need/want to acquire is where emotion and reason can easily confound a person. It’s so obvious to someone looking in but invisible to the one caught up in it.

Why not visit a museum? Go and experience and appreciate some other art.

I don’t have time to visit a museum.
I have time to look at my watch all day though.
And appreciate looking at it on my wrist.

[PFmicro]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

I don’t have time to visit a museum.
I have time to look at my watch all day though.
And appreciate looking at it on my wrist.

I see.

Well you seem to already appreciate one or two of these without owning, just continue to appreciate them in that way. Sometimes looking at something everyday makes us appreciate it less.

[gliazzurri]

Better appreciated in reality than on screen.
Just like a museum.

[PFmicro]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Better appreciated in reality than on screen.
Just like a museum.

Yes, nothing like appreciating in person. Until you are in a position to acquire why not mentally reflect on the time you’ve spent with the object of your desire?

Did you spend time with this FPJ at a boutique? Reseller? Maybe visit and appreciate it some more?

[Jay (Eire)]

Whatever you do don’t settle. If you want an Optimum then don’t settle for something that may have some similarities technically but which may be less appealing aesthetically. Wait for the Optimum.

Journe, to the best of my knowledge, has a good record of getting watches to new customers (I.e. those with no track record, buying history). But you need to do some leg work, you need to make yourself known and reiterate you wants repeatedly. Make sure they know you are serious and persistent and take the conversation beyond the Boutique staff too. That’s where we are today, and I know it doesn’t suit all personalities to have to do that but that’s where we are.

My other comment would be that today there are so many more choices than ever. And the quality at lower price points seems to be at an all time high. You may with further investigation find other watches to bridge you on the way to that Optimum.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Thanks for the response. I'd love to buy an FPJ Optimum to be honest. Maybe I'll get laughed out of here because I have no history with them but of all the options I find it the most technically interesting. I have a variety of Mosers and am very happy with them as well as Lange. But I'm in the pick and choose category now of other types and this fits my target of what I love about the brand and technical mastery.

Have you visited the boutique? I don’t think it is impossible but just needs time to cultivate trust that you truly appreciate the brand and the watch. Also, there is definitely a long wait which is expected. But I don’t think you will get laughed off if you come across as a real collector. The boutique told me that their job now is so much harder than before as they are the gate keeper and needs to make sure the watch goes to someone who “deserves” it not in the sense of how many pieces you already own but truly would enjoy it. Before they just sell whatever available.

[gliazzurri]

Regrettably not but been in touch. Not sure how nyc is doing it as I think renovation pending. And hadn’t had opportunity for various reasons over prior year. But definitely serious. I appreciate all the advice.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by gliazzurri

Regrettably not but been in touch. Not sure how nyc is doing it as I think renovation pending. And hadn’t had opportunity for various reasons over prior year. But definitely serious. I appreciate all the advice.

If you are serious with the piece, I believe the only route is to visit the boutique in person if you are a new customer.

[thekman]

For those saying just go to the Journe boutique, my experience as well as other friend's experience in the past year was the same. Both of us were told we had to show to their collector's meetings to cultivate a relationship. Funnily enough their events are all on a Tuesday at 5pm. As I live 3.5 hours away from NYC and have to work for a living I just don't see how that will ever be possible. Funnily enough I live 1 minute away from their Boston AD that they just cut out this year. If Journe chooses to not have ADs and only 3 sales points in a country as big as the US then they need to have a better system than "keep dropping in to our weekday events". This is just not possible for most of their customers who do not live in the same cities as those 3 boutiques.

[gliazzurri]

Originally Posted by llngoc

If you are serious with the piece, I believe the only route is to visit the boutique in person if you are a new customer.

I’m on it. I want to hopefully report back here and eventually show my piece. Yes I’m 100% serious but the challenge is making that clear. Thankfully I was able to do so with a hard to find Moser piece and this has worked out equally in my favor so I’m all in on what I set my eyes on.

[kaiserphoenix]

I sympathise with the OP. Its a tough time to get into the hobby, with multiple causes affecting the availability of watches. I guess the only thing I would say, is try to get started somewhere and consider it as a journey. You cant always just go straight to what you want, why not just explore and enjoy the process, buy something perhaps that isnt something that you COVET and a grail but something to start a relationship, learn more about the timepieces but also about the entire process of everything. Often times I bought something that the boutique manager recommended and I ended up loving it as it opened up new perspectives! Every watch is nice. It doesnt have to be black and white.

The "Game" is not a straight line. Its not just spending the most gets you what you want, though it certainly helps.

I took delivery of my Optimum just yesterday, but I waited 3 years and I had bought FPJ since 2015 just to give you an idea. Like you, the optimum was the watch I always wanted but I enjoy all the experiences and people I met before. My watch journey started literally decades ago but my point is, these things take a while!

Just get started somewhere and enjoy it and dont stress too much. Dun try to get to the top instantly. You will eventually get there my friend!

Heres a pic to get you going!