3235….disappointed

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by Mystro

Is there a master list of lift angles for different movements? I noticed a few lift angles have been updated or so it would seem via internet. I would like to find reliable master list of lift angles for multiple manufacturers.

Try this
https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/lift_angles

[77T]

6σ is not relevant if the process routinely fails. Ford is 6σ (or claims to be) and they routinely recall vehicles.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...e/70489508007/

Oh yeah, let’s have more of that…



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[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Try this
https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/lift_angles

[fredos_rolex]

I have a new Sub 124060 that I just picked up last week. I am hoping it is just having a break-in period, as it is running -3 and -4spd, which is disappointing. The DJ 126234 I picked up (new) this spring runs MAYBE +2 sec/week. Even my old AK 14000 (admittedly just 6 months after a full service) runs pretty reliably at +1 or +2 spd.

I hope the new Sub isn't "infected" because I love it and for me at least, that was some serious coin I dropped.

[Cassian739]

Originally Posted by Easy E

Try this
https://watchguy.co.uk/cgi-bin/lift_angles

Thanks for sharing!

[padi56]

Originally Posted by fredos_rolex

I have a new Sub 124060 that I just picked up last week. I am hoping it is just having a break-in period, as it is running -3 and -4spd, which is disappointing. The DJ 126234 I picked up (new) this spring runs MAYBE +2 sec/week. Even my old AK 14000 (admittedly just 6 months after a full service) runs pretty reliably at +1 or +2 spd.
many things effect
I hope the new Sub isn't "infected" because I love it and for me at least, that was some serious coin I dropped.

Cannot understand why you are disappointed with any watch thats runs -3 to -4 seconds. Would you feel the same if it was +3+4 seconds many things effect all mechanical watches on wrist off wrist, even on one of those machine winder things. The escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 time and a day has 86,400 seconds .And on or off wrist different resting positions etc just because Rolex tests to this -2+2 spec dont mean it will perform exactly the same every single day. Given the fact that the movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, mainspring power-reserve subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, and so on. fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep 100% perfect time, very close yes but perfect no.

Position Of Watch seconds Per Day Timegrapher test still meets Rolex -2+2 spec.

Dial Up +2
Dial Down -1
6 o’clock +3
9 o’clock -3
3 o’clock +5

[amh]

Originally Posted by fredos_rolex

I have a new Sub 124060 that I just picked up last week. I am hoping it is just having a break-in period, as it is running -3 and -4spd, which is disappointing. The DJ 126234 I picked up (new) this spring runs MAYBE +2 sec/week. Even my old AK 14000 (admittedly just 6 months after a full service) runs pretty reliably at +1 or +2 spd.

I hope the new Sub isn't "infected" because I love it and for me at least, that was some serious coin I dropped.

Listen to Padi's advice. Self-regulate the watch by finding a position where it keeps time well and leave it like that every night. I keep mine in "crown up" position and they're quartz-like in accuracy. My SD43 is spot on at the end of every month.

Don't let yourself get swayed by the anecdotal data in this and other 32xx threads. Your watch doesn't have a "virus." It is in exceptional working condition.

[Skully]

Originally Posted by padi56

Cannot understand why you are disappointed with any watch thats runs -3 to -4 seconds. Would you feel the same if it was +3+4 seconds many things effect all mechanical watches on wrist off wrist, even on one of those machine winder things. The escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 time and a day has 86,400 seconds .And on or off wrist different resting positions etc just because Rolex tests to this -2+2 spec dont mean it will perform exactly the same every single day. Given the fact that the movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, mainspring power-reserve subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, and so on. fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep 100% perfect time, very close yes but perfect no.

Position Of Watch seconds Per Day Timegrapher test still meets Rolex -2+2 spec.

Dial Up +2
Dial Down -1
6 o’clock +3
9 o’clock -3
3 o’clock +5

Thanks!

[Marast-66]

Originally Posted by padi56

Cannot understand why you are disappointed with any watch thats runs -3 to -4 seconds. Would you feel the same if it was +3+4 seconds many things effect all mechanical watches on wrist off wrist, even on one of those machine winder things. The escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 time and a day has 86,400 seconds .And on or off wrist different resting positions etc just because Rolex tests to this -2+2 spec dont mean it will perform exactly the same every single day. Given the fact that the movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, mainspring power-reserve subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, and so on. fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep 100% perfect time, very close yes but perfect no.

Position Of Watch seconds Per Day Timegrapher test still meets Rolex -2+2 spec.

Dial Up +2
Dial Down-1
6 o’clock+3
9 o’clock-3
3 o’clock+5

Spot on.


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[DavidUK]

Originally Posted by fredos_rolex

I have a new Sub 124060 that I just picked up last week. I am hoping it is just having a break-in period, as it is running -3 and -4spd, which is disappointing. The DJ 126234 I picked up (new) this spring runs MAYBE +2 sec/week. Even my old AK 14000 (admittedly just 6 months after a full service) runs pretty reliably at +1 or +2 spd.

I hope the new Sub isn't "infected" because I love it and for me at least, that was some serious coin I dropped.

Over the decades I've found that if you twiddle the little knob on the right, the one with the crown on it, you can re-adjust the time so as to be spot on!

Do this once a month, or as often as you like, and you'll find all your worries evaporate.

[CaptT]

Originally Posted by fredos_rolex

I have a new Sub 124060 that I just picked up last week. I am hoping it is just having a break-in period, as it is running -3 and -4spd, which is disappointing. The DJ 126234 I picked up (new) this spring runs MAYBE +2 sec/week. Even my old AK 14000 (admittedly just 6 months after a full service) runs pretty reliably at +1 or +2 spd.

I hope the new Sub isn't "infected" because I love it and for me at least, that was some serious coin I dropped.

If a watch is marketed to a certain accuracy, and it's slower than that out the gate it's natural to be a little disappointed, in my opinion. Regardless of if this is a 32xx movement or not.

But of course it's all relative. And how much or little it bothers someone is perhaps personal. Not sure I'd send it in right away, but I'd be evaluating it over the first few months.

You've probably seen some members here are driven to figuratively facepalm when others - predominantly enthusiasts - take an interest in the timekeeping performance of their watches. Or a desire to leave them un-polished, or examine with a loupe, or the preference for box and papers, the list goes on. Enjoy your watch(es) and the hobby however it suits you best.

And congrats on your new Sub, it's a classic.

[ironchips]

Originally Posted by padi56

Cannot understand why you are disappointed with any watch thats runs -3 to -4 seconds. Would you feel the same if it was +3+4 seconds many things effect all mechanical watches on wrist off wrist, even on one of those machine winder things. The escapement of a mechanical watch in 24 hours pushes the gears 432,000 time and a day has 86,400 seconds .And on or off wrist different resting positions etc just because Rolex tests to this -2+2 spec dont mean it will perform exactly the same every single day. Given the fact that the movement is constantly affected by the earth's gravity, metal expansion and contraction, temperature variations, mainspring power-reserve subtle changes in lubrication and friction, shocks, and so on. fact is that no mechanical watch made will keep 100% perfect time, very close yes but perfect no.

Position Of Watch seconds Per Day Timegrapher test still meets Rolex -2+2 spec.

Dial Up +2
Dial Down -1
6 o’clock +3
9 o’clock -3
3 o’clock +5

Oh the power of the interwebs! If the 3135 came out in 2023 we'd be having the same conversations because information travels so fast now. No reason at all for disappointment. Find a good resting position at night (My 126610LN likes Crown down) and prepare to be amazed! 432,000 pushes/day=

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by DavidUK

Over the decades I've found that if you twiddle the little knob on the right, the one with the crown on it, you can re-adjust the time so as to be spot on!

Do this once a month, or as often as you like, and you'll find all your worries evaporate.

Wow… David! You’re a genius!

[Gab27]

Originally Posted by DavidUK

Over the decades I've found that if you twiddle the little knob on the right, the one with the crown on it, you can re-adjust the time so as to be spot on!

Do this once a month, or as often as you like, and you'll find all your worries evaporate.

Your kindness, respect, and compassion shown towards other members in this thread has genuinely moved me.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by CaptT

If a watch is marketed to a certain accuracy, and it's slower than that out the gate it's natural to be a little disappointed, in my opinion. Regardless of if this is a 32xx movement or not.

But of course it's all relative. And how much or little it bothers someone is perhaps personal. Not sure I'd send it in right away, but I'd be evaluating it over the first few months.

You've probably seen some members here are driven to figuratively facepalm when others - predominantly enthusiasts - take an interest in the timekeeping performance of their watches. Or a desire to leave them un-polished, or examine with a loupe, or the preference for box and papers, the list goes on. Enjoy your watch(es) and the hobby however it suits you best.

And congrats on your new Sub, it's a classic.

Agreed.
It's a journey.
Every person's path is different and should be enjoyed according to the individual's desires.
To that, priorities change and we transition through phases according to where we are in life

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by ironchips

Oh the power of the interwebs! If the 3135 came out in 2023 we'd be having the same conversations because information travels so fast now. No reason at all for disappointment. Find a good resting position at night (My 126610LN likes Crown down) and prepare to be amazed! 432,000 pushes/day=

That's the hell of it.
The 31xx movements were around during the internet watch forum heyday and nobody ever mentioned anything about abnormal degradation of performance to the point of dropping out of spec.
I would add that the 32xx movement didn't come out in 2023.
It's been around for 8 years or so with the same issue being reported and no fix in sight as far as we know.
Also I see the statistics creeping up on the big 32xx poll thread and it's not the percentage one would like to see.

For the record.
I've been wearing my "Superlative" DSSD fairly consistently for over a week or so and it has a 3135 that's still around a barely perceptible 0.25 of a second off from when I fired it up and setting it after sitting idle for a few months.
In summary, the 32xx movements are statistically fairly how ya going when compared with the benchmark modern Rolex movements.
The numbers don't lie and support the facts

[ironchips]

Originally Posted by Dirt

That's the hell of it.
The 31xx movements were around during the internet watch forum heyday and nobody ever mentioned anything about abnormal degradation of performance to the point of dropping out of spec.
I would add that the 32xx movement didn't come out in 2023.
It's been around for 8 years or so with the same issue being reported and no fix in sight as far as we know.
Also I see the statistics creeping up on the big 32xx poll thread and it's not the percentage one would like to see.

For the record.
I've been wearing my "Superlative" DSSD fairly consistently for over a week or so and it has a 3135 that's still around a barely perceptible 0.25 of a second off from when I fired it up and setting it after sitting idle for a few months.
In summary, the 32xx movements are statistically fairly how ya going when compared with the benchmark modern Rolex movements.
The numbers don't lie and support the facts

Rolex is doing something. Between 2021 and 2022 they swapped out the rotor bearing. Do you happen to know what that was all about? I'll admit thats why I waited to get mine until 23'

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by ironchips

Rolex is doing something. Between 2021 and 2022 they swapped out the rotor bearing. Do you happen to know what that was all about? I'll admit thats why I waited to get mine until 23'

Taking it at face value, I simply assume it's an updated design and nothing more.
To be frank, I was surprised with the few number of Ball bearings that the original design had, but I assumed that Rolex had done their homework and validated it.
Clearly my original assumption was flawed due to my blinkered view of the brand, as the updated design is in line with my prior expectations

[padi56]

Originally Posted by CaptT

If a watch is marketed to a certain accuracy, and it's slower than that out the gate it's natural to be a little disappointed, in my opinion. Regardless of if this is a 32xx movement or not.

But of course it's all relative. And how much or little it bothers someone is perhaps personal. Not sure I'd send it in right away, but I'd be evaluating it over the first few months.

You've probably seen some members here are driven to figuratively facepalm when others - predominantly enthusiasts - take an interest in the timekeeping performance of their watches. Or a desire to leave them un-polished, or examine with a loupe, or the preference for box and papers, the list goes on. Enjoy your watch(es) and the hobby however it suits you best.

And congrats on your new Sub, it's a classic.

Yes the Rolex marketing states movement has been tested to a pricision of -2+2 seconds in its case.But in the real world this don't mean it will be exactly the same every day for life..Much like they test cars for MPG and now with electric cars the mileage range.How many actually achieve these quoted manufacturers figures very few I would expect.Why simply when driving their are many variables same for watches like owners wearing habits mainspring power reserve plus many others.Life to short to worry and fret over a few seconds either way out of 86400 seconds in a day.

[the dark knight]

I doubt Rolex has a permanent fix nor is seriously looking for one at this point. Seems like they know how to service them to make the problem go away for a bit, and that's probably good enough for now.

I'd imagine they are devoting their resources to developing a 33xx or a heavily modified 32xx that might as well be a new movement (kind of like Omega's 2500D when their movements were having issues). Tons of watchmakers have movements that match or exceed the PR of the 32xx (including Tudor) without these issues, so obviously Rolex is capable of doing so as well.

I'd imagine they will continue to "service" the ones that come in (whether in or out of warranty) and then eventually hot-swap the updated movements into the watches (at an expensive "service" price).

I believe that's how Tudor has been dealing with their GMT issues, and it appears the way this industry is going is towards hot swapping movements into watches rather than servicing them anyway.

[East of Eden]

Originally Posted by Subshark1861

I can't imagine it's a design defect as all watches with the 32XX would be affected. Maybe in terms of some of it is difficult to make or assemble to the correct specification, but not a problem when everything is within spec.

When you are making 1000's of items, things go wrong.

Things seem to go wrong much more often with the 32xx movements

[CedCraig]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

I doubt Rolex has a permanent fix nor is seriously looking for one at this point. Seems like they know how to service them to make the problem go away for a bit, and that's probably good enough for now.

I'd imagine they are devoting their resources to developing a 33xx or a heavily modified 32xx that might as well be a new movement (kind of like Omega's 2500D when their movements were having issues). Tons of watchmakers have movements that match or exceed the PR of the 32xx (including Tudor) without these issues, so obviously Rolex is capable of doing so as well.

I'd imagine they will continue to "service" the ones that come in (whether in or out of warranty) and then eventually hot-swap the updated movements into the watches (at an expensive "service" price).

I believe that's how Tudor has been dealing with their GMT issues, and it appears the way this industry is going is towards hot swapping movements into watches rather than servicing them anyway.

I agree that the focus is on the 33xx, which surely will be designed for a hot swap with lemon 32xx movements. The 32xx probably won‘t be around very long, in comparison to the 31xx movements.

I know Tudor hot swaps, but I haven‘t heard of higher end companies doing that, just ones that use Sellita/ETAs (and Kenissi). Which „good“ brands other than Tudor are hot swapping movements?

[goodolejr]

Originally Posted by DavidUK

Over the decades I've found that if you twiddle the little knob on the right, the one with the crown on it, you can re-adjust the time so as to be spot on!

Do this once a month, or as often as you like, and you'll find all your worries evaporate.

While we're at it, why not just continuously turn the crown adjust the hands in real time?

[sevykor]

Everything is fine. No problems to report. Stop making an issue out of nothing. BTW, don’t look up.


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[amh]

Originally Posted by sevykor

Everything is fine. No problems to report. Stop making an issue out of nothing. BTW, don’t look up.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Yeah it's the season for the perseid meteor shower! (None of which will hit you in the head)

[the dark knight]

Originally Posted by CedCraig

I agree that the focus is on the 33xx, which surely will be designed for a hot swap with lemon 32xx movements. The 32xx probably won‘t be around very long, in comparison to the 31xx movements.

I know Tudor hot swaps, but I haven‘t heard of higher end companies doing that, just ones that use Sellita/ETAs (and Kenissi). Which „good“ brands other than Tudor are hot swapping movements?

Outside of the really low end brands like Seiko that have dirt cheap movements, I honestly do not know brands that hot swap instead of servicing movements. And even Seiko I believe it's the owners requesting swaps since that would be cheaper than servicing.

And even Tudor is a bit of an aberration as they are hot swapping problematic lemon movements. My understanding is they don't hot swap movements in lieu of normal servicing, even their models with ETAs/Sellitas.

Rather my understanding is this is a fairly newer approach, and honestly even then it appears to be more based on industry rumors rather than tangible corporate policy. I believe some of the ETA Powermatic movements are rumored to be designed to be swapped rather than serviced, so to the extent this is happening it appears to be lower-end. I doubt Patek or ALS are going to be hot swapping movements rather than servicing them.

OTOH there are brands like Oris and their Cal. 400, that they claim was designed specifically with ease of servicing in mind. So I guess this is a company to company approach.

But I believe there was some speculation Rolex may adapt this type of model in the future as they produce a ton of new movements each year, the 32xx appears to be designed with more parts that are meant to be replaced rather than repaired/serviced, and bottom line considerations (tech/automation making movement manufacturing cheaper while human labor may rise in cost). But who knows. At the very least, I'm betting Rolex will take this approach with lemon 32xx movements in the near future.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by the dark knight

Outside of the really low end brands like Seiko that have dirt cheap movements, I honestly do not know brands that hot swap instead of servicing movements. And even Seiko I believe it's the owners requesting swaps since that would be cheaper than servicing.

And even Tudor is a bit of an aberration as they are hot swapping problematic lemon movements. My understanding is they don't hot swap movements in lieu of normal servicing, even their models with ETAs/Sellitas.

Rather my understanding is this is a fairly newer approach, and honestly even then it appears to be more based on industry rumors rather than tangible corporate policy. I believe some of the ETA Powermatic movements are rumored to be designed to be swapped rather than serviced, so to the extent this is happening it appears to be lower-end. I doubt Patek or ALS are going to be hot swapping movements rather than servicing them.

OTOH there are brands like Oris and their Cal. 400, that they claim was designed specifically with ease of servicing in mind. So I guess this is a company to company approach.

But I believe there was some speculation Rolex may adapt this type of model in the future as they produce a ton of new movements each year, the 32xx appears to be designed with more parts that are meant to be replaced rather than repaired/serviced, and bottom line considerations (tech/automation making movement manufacturing cheaper while human labor may rise in cost). But who knows. At the very least, I'm betting Rolex will take this approach with lemon 32xx movements in the near future.

Tudor definitely do swap out their in-house movements even for simple servicing. Not sure about the older ETA/Sellita pieces, but definitely the in-house ones. The movement is removed and replaced with a serviced one from someone else's watch. Meanwhile, the one out of your watch gets serviced at Tudors convenience/leisure and then eventually dropped into someone else's watch. I was at Tudor event at my local AD last year and I specifically asked one of the Tudor representatives who were present. He was a bit surprised I knew about it, but he confirmed that is the case, so unless something has changed in the last year it's fair to assume it's still the practice.

[singe89]

Will probably have another 3235 going back. Got it in November and was running at +1 sec/day tracked every day for a month. It progressively started running slower and slower and currently has been ar -3 sec a day for the last 2 weeks. Once it gets to -5 or more sec/day slow it will go back like my other 3235 movements.

[CedCraig]

Originally Posted by Driver8

Tudor definitely do swap out their in-house movements even for simple servicing. Not sure about the older ETA/Sellita pieces, but definitely the in-house ones. The movement is removed and replaced with a serviced one from someone else's watch. Meanwhile, the one out of your watch gets serviced at Tudors convenience/leisure and then eventually dropped into someone else's watch. I was at Tudor event at my local AD last year and I specifically asked one of the Tudor representatives who were present. He was a bit surprised I knew about it, but he confirmed that is the case, so unless something has changed in the last year it's fair to assume it's still the practice.

Exactly. The standard is for Tudor to swap out Kenissi movements. I recall reading that if you specifically request it, the service center will not hot swap but will service your movement and put it back in your watch. I think James Stacey on Hodinkee wrote that, but now I can’t find the article.

Interesting that a microbrand that uses Kenissi movements, Ultramarine, does not hot swap.

[trali]

Regarding Tudor movements replacing: