Why NOT go to the AD?

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by Mr. K

nygo- bottem line, money talks. Save a few hundred or a few thousand, money matters.

Nobody wants to spend more than they have to.

ADs have a higher mark up because they have a higher overhead cost. But the people on this forum are not typical Rolex buyers. Many (not all) typical Rolex buyers go to the mall and buy because it is a Rolex! To celebrate, as a reward, a milestone, for whatever reason.

Most typical buyers would never send thousands of $ to someone they don't know to hope to get a watch.

But buyers here love Rolex and are a bit different. We are a little more savy and if we wanted to buy at a discount are empowered with the connections to do so.

Sure ADs will get some who "use them" without the intent to ever buy there. It is all part of the game and the ADs know it. Is it fair, ethical, right? (That is personal decision for the individual, like some have said here, they like to support local, good for them! But it is up to the individual) Does not matter how many lookie-loos come in, it is just part of the game.

There are still plenty who will buy from an AD. I have bought both new and used. I prefer buying from an AD for Rolex, but have never bought from an AD for Omega, UN, Cartier, Tag (well one tag I did) Corum.... you get the point. The theory is the same although the brand is different.

All this is just IMHO.

You make a good point. For every person like us who buys online, there are hundreds (thousands, even) who pay full MRSP at the AD. ADs aren't going to be shutting their doors because of TRF.

[bobznew]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

You make a good point. For every person like us who buys online, there are hundreds (thousands, even) who pay full MRSP at the AD. ADs aren't going to be shutting their doors because of TRF.

+1000

You could even take it a step further...

If Rolex has been able to endure the counterfeiting of its products for as long as it has and yet continues to thrive, how much can the company really be hurt by online discussions about AD discounts off MSRP?

[Spartacus]

Originally Posted by bobznew

The value of an item is determined by the underlying market dynamics for that particular item. If this "constant discussion of discounting" leads to Rolex lowering its MSRP's, then you will have been proven correct. Otherwise, the actual value will have only have diminished in your own (subjective) estimation.

If that is the case, I will be glad to ease your burden by taking said items of lesser value off your hands. At an appropriate discount, of course.

Are you kidding?

The fact of the matter is that this forum along with some very vocal members of the forums are consistently re-routing and marketing for the third party resellers. These "trusted" resellers are often represented as equal to an AD, a 'grey market dealer' is marketed as if it were coming straight from Rolex.

"save your money, buy from _____" - "you should expect a 20% discount" - "I save thousands on my purchases"

These statements basically imply that MSRP is 20% greater than what a watch can be obtained for. In other words, those who paid MSRP, will take a greater than 20% hit on resale, or further, have lost value in their watches instantly based on resellers.

Again, this entire discussion is counter to Rolex's brand, and counter to our watch's value.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

These statements basically imply that MSRP is 20% greater than what a watch can be obtained for. In other words, those who paid MSRP, will take a greater than 20% hit on resale, or further, have lost value in their watches instantly based on resellers.

That's about the size of it.

[A.Sharp]

Originally Posted by nygo

I've heard price. Why pay full price if you can get X amount cheaper from X on the forum. When I bought my first Rolex, it was all about the experience. I went into Wempe. Was offered chocolates and Pellegrino. I didn't make a purchase that day -- didn't feel pressured. Came back another weekend, tried on a few watches. Some not even Rolex. Then finally when I was about to make my purchase, the sales person insisted I take my time. No rush. When I finally pulled the trigger, I was offered Veuve Clicquot and even had the watch boxed and gift wrapped. Now, THATs a luxury experience. When you think Rolex, don't you just think luxury and luxury experience? About building a rapport with a salesperson? Or am I just old fashioned? And, has it all just come down to the absolute lowest price?

You can buy vueve clicquot and chocolates, and put the 1000+ towards your next luxury experience. But in all seriousness I understand what you are saying, but I didn't get much out of my AD experience... it actually stunk. and as for building a rapport with a salesperson, id much rather start building one with a trusted seller on TRF. my 2 cents

[A.Sharp]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

The AD experience is nice for your first Rolex or so. I get it. Maybe it's ego thing but it's fun to be wined and dined a little when you're going to make a big purchase; I know i enjoyed my first experience. After I bought a couple of watches however and became what I consider a small collector, I'd rather just save myself the money and get the next piece at the best price.

What AD's are you guys going to that your getting courted? I just find that a lot (tourneau) just consist of an experience that revolves around lack of knowledge, and a lot of 'no's'. Dare I even say attitudes. I remember asking if they had a SS daytona and was told if I spend over 35K today he can order one for me.

[versatile1]

I agree with you completely.
I believe that every Rolex owner should experience that at least once.
I did just that on 2007 when I bought my first "new" Rolex. It was a GMT Coke bezel.
Since then it was 4 new ones from sources outside of a AD then a Daytona from an AD only because it was offered to me for less then my other sources were willing.
I wear a New Sub Date C which was not an AD experience.
All in all, I will take the big discount hands down

[VICI]

Let's take an average $8k watch - 20% discount is $1,600.

Go to an AD, try on pieces and if you like the salesperson, try negotiating.

I've gotten 15% off of SS at an AD - then the question of wanting a 'luxury' experience becomes more relevant for a $400 savings.

After your first, the 'experience' is better served at a restaurant :)

[bobznew]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

Are you kidding?

The fact of the matter is that this forum along with some very vocal members of the forums are consistently re-routing and marketing for the third party resellers. These "trusted" resellers are often represented as equal to an AD, a 'grey market dealer' is marketed as if it were coming straight from Rolex.

"save your money, buy from _____" - "you should expect a 20% discount" - "I save thousands on my purchases"

These statements basically imply that MSRP is 20% greater than what a watch can be obtained for. In other words, those who paid MSRP, will take a greater than 20% hit on resale, or further, have lost value in their watches instantly based on resellers.

Again, this entire discussion is counter to Rolex's brand, and counter to our watch's value.

I think you are looking at it from the wrong angle completely.

In actual concrete terms, discussions like this don't devalue the Rolex brand one wit. If anything, they serve to REINFORCE the quality of the brand. After all, how many online discussions do you see about how to save serious money on a pencil eraser? Or a gum wrapper? Probably none, since the underlying value of the item in question is so low as to not warrant such discussion.

The presence of so many online discussions regarding "How to get a Rolex at a lower cost" only serves to reinforce the idea that the perceived value of the product is already very high. And whether or not one admits it, the average consumer will, if presented with options of varying costs, take the time to learn and research the best way to acquire something of value at as little cost as they must necessarily pay to acquire it. If that idea is offensive, then I don't know what can be said to make things better for the offended person.

The fact that we're even having this discussion serves to reinforce the underlying value of the brand. Consumers don't have discussions like this about things in which significant value isn't already present.

Discussions like this don't devalue the product any more than counterfeit money takes away value from a real $100 bill.

[jctrolex]

Originally Posted by coralfarmer84

THANK YOU! I could not have said it better. Bet these same people wouldn't be so happy if they lost their job because someone else was willing to do it cheaper.

I think it's called the golden rule.

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by Alex_NYC

Let's take an average $8k watch - 20% discount is $1,600.

Go to an AD, try on pieces and if you like the salesperson, try negotiating.

I've gotten 15% off of SS at an AD - then the question of wanting a 'luxury' experience becomes more relevant for a $400 savings.

After your first, the 'experience' is better served at a restaurant :)

I feel generally the same way. The watch is the thing, and a Rolex is a commodity in that any model is the exact same wherever it comes from. So the price has to be within reason of the number I can get it for elsewhere - after taking sales tax into account.

[Kobayashi]

It's already been said but if you flip watches then going to the secondary market is much better. Another reason is vintage or less than newer models - 14060m, 16710, 114270, etc.

I must admit I do like the AD's in my area and some have outstanding service.

[HogwldFLTR]

FWIW, I've only been to two ADs and neither have shown the slightest interest in helping me. I mentioned getting a repair and one tried to screen me from talking to their repair person. Frankly I've gotten the willies each time I've walked into the vultures lair. I see little there of interest other than the watches and they aren't the only game in town with watches.

[Mr. K]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

Are you kidding?

These "trusted" resellers are often represented as equal to an AD, a 'grey market dealer' is marketed as if it were coming straight from Rolex.

.

AD = AD
Trusted seller = Grey market

There is a difference that everyone should be aware of. But once people are aware, it is up to the buyer to choose.

Live and let live. We all make our choices for various reasons.

[HogwldFLTR]

This is sort of silly; every owner of property has the right to sell it. Rolexes are no exception as long as they are correctly represented. Grey market my butt. Used Rolexes is all they are whether or not they've been worn.

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by Mr. K

AD = AD
Trusted seller = Grey market

There is a difference that everyone should be aware of. But once people are aware, it is up to the buyer to choose.

Live and let live. We all make our choices for various reasons.

Not exactly.

Grey market implies that the watch was obtained through non-official channels. Costco, for example, is grey market. You do not get a Rolex warranty. Your warranty is from Costco.

If our sellers buy their watches from an AD and we buy from them, the warranty card still shows that the watch was originally purchased from an AD (because it was). Because of that, the official Rolex warranty is still intact. The watches that we buy from our trusted sellers, even if they are advertised as BNIB, are technically pre-owned, though that doesn't mean that it is grey market.

[Mr. K]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

Not exactly.

Grey market implies that the watch was obtained through non-official channels. Costco, for example, is grey market. You do not get a Rolex warranty. Your warranty is from Costco.

If our sellers buy their watches from an AD and we buy from them, the warranty card still shows that the watch was originally purchased from an AD (because it was). Because of that, the official Rolex warranty is still intact.

Interesting, did not know that, but makes sense.

Question is how the heck does one not get a rolex if not from an AD? Costco has to get them from somewhere and Rolex does not supply to anyone but the ADs (as far as I know). How does Costco end up with the watch through non-official channels? I'm thinking ADs who are closing/going out of business perhaps? Any other ways to source Rolex if not from an AD? Is there a backdoor distribution?

[Wesley Crusher]

Originally Posted by Mr. K

Interesting, did not know that, but makes sense.

Question is how the heck does one not get a rolex if not from an AD? Costco has to get them from somewhere and Rolex does not supply to anyone but the ADs (as far as I know). How does Costco end up with the watch through non-official channels? I'm thinking ADs who are closing/going out of business perhaps? Any other ways to source Rolex if not from an AD? Is there a backdoor distribution?

I know with some products, the MRSP is different depending on the country. Dealers will buy items from certain countries and offer them in other countries for a discount. The problem is that the warranty often does not transfer between countries. For example, Leica cameras only have a warranty in the country that they are originally from. If I bought a grey market Leica that originally came from HK, Leica USA will not perform any warranty work.

I have no idea if this applies to Rolex. For example, if I buy a brand new Rolex from Japan (at an AD, of course), will Rolex USA perform any warranty work?

I am not sure how grey market Rolex dealers get their watches.

[ironmanmarcus]

Originally Posted by ronricks

I like saving money and having a positive experience using the Trusted Sellers here. This is a great community why not support it? I can buy a van full of chocolate and champaign with my savings.

If everyone followed this theory then nobody would EVER go out for a nice steak at an upmarket restaurant....they could buy a freezer full of steaks for the same price.
As stated by someone earlier, if your main goal in purchasing a watch is to save some $$ then the grey market is definitely the place to go.
If you want the TOTAL experience as first posted then it's off to the AD.

Both are fine it's just what floats your boat. For me it's the AD for the first purchase and then the grey after that.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

I know with some products, the MRSP is different depending on the country. Dealers will buy items from certain countries and offer them in other countries for a discount. The problem is that the warranty often does not transfer between countries. For example, Leica cameras only have a warranty in the country that they are originally from. If I bought a grey market Leica that originally came from HK, Leica USA will not perform any warranty work.

I have no idea if this applies to Rolex. For example, if I buy a brand new Rolex from Japan (at an AD, of course), will Rolex USA perform any warranty work?

I am not sure how grey market Rolex dealers get their watches.

Yes if you buy a Rolex in Japan, AD or not and it has a valid warranty in your name or not Rolex USA will service it.

[Jake B]

Not much choice when you like buying discontinued models.

[Jake B]

Originally Posted by ironmanmarcus

If everyone followed this theory then nobody would EVER go out for a nice steak at an upmarket restaurant....they could buy a freezer full of steaks for the same price.
As stated by someone earlier, if your main goal in purchasing a watch is to save some $$ then the grey market is definitely the place to go.
If you want the TOTAL experience as first posted then it's off to the AD.

Both are fine it's just what floats your boat. For me it's the AD for the first purchase and then the grey after that.

That's just silly. Going to an upmarket restaurant you get a steak cooked to perfection by a professional chef. It's likely a heckuva lot better than you'll get from your freezer full of beef at home.

The AD on the other hand, adds nothing to the experience besides a higher price and a cup of tea in a green chair.

[Old Expat Beast]

Rolex warranty cards are valid worldwide, for whoever holds the warranty card. Not so for Tudor, which only have a limited warranty. Likewise, an RSC two-year movement warranty will be honoured at any RSC worldwide. So the RSC in Hong Kong tells me, anyway.

[T. Ferguson]

Originally Posted by Wesley Crusher

I am not sure how grey market Rolex dealers get their watches.

Wesley, this is only my thought on what goes on from wondering about it myself. It seems to me that all grey goods, not just Rolexes, came from someone the manufacturer originally sold them to. So since authorized dealers are the only ones Rolex sells to, EVERY Rolex came out of an AD in the beginning. Perhaps there are exceptions, like a watch presented to the winner of a Rolex sponsored sporting event or some special group thing handled by corporate directly, like maybe the GMT with PanAm.

What I think the difference is, if an AD in some foreign country is going to sell 20 watches to Costco or larger internet retailer like Alan Furman, they won't sell it with the warranty card. I'd imagine that the AD contract with Rolex does not allow them to sell to another reseller and with a company like Costco this is hard to hide/deny if caught. Even if this isn't the case it is likely the AD wouldn't want someone buying a watch at a well known retailer/discounter that can be traced back to them by the mother ship. It is also probable that these large retailers don't want the warranty card anyway because they also don't want the vendor disclosed, which they obviously would be doing if they included the warranty card with the watch. So these retailers agree to buy the watches without the warranty cards and offer their own warranty in its place.

But I assume that even the watches we see occasionally at Costco came out of an AD in the beginning of its journey.

Just my best guess at it.

[Zoran]

Hi guys,

The opinions are very different on this subject, yet all of them make sense.

I too value my AD, but have also had great experiences with grey sellers.
If you're going to flip your watch soon, then the grey seller is the best route to go for obvious reasons. Even if you're not going to flip it, but want to save some money on MSRP, again the right path to choose.

I do also understand the sentiment of supporting your local businesses, like buying your car from the same dealer every time you buy one.
Nowadays you can buy everything online, but we must all admit that at one point or another we appreciate the AD so we can try on different models before making up our mind.

People are different and so are opinions, thank God. But as long as both sellers can coexist, there will always be the right client for both.

I think there is no right or wrong answer to this question

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by Jake B

Not much choice when you like buying discontinued models.

This

Your original OP assumes that all buyers want brand-new Rolex watches. I prefer aluminum inserts and drilled-through lug holes. ADs don't carry these anymore........in fact, most ADs that I have entered wearing my 5513 or 1665 scoff at such an "old and outdated model".

I find most of the ADs that I have visited to be filled with ill-informed, pompous sales people. They know very little about their product, and they are not prepared to deal with the savvy and educated buyer. I have purchased from ADs multiple times, from Fleabay, and also from online forum sellers. My best experience was buying my 1665 from a local jewelry store.......but that was all about the watch. I find ADs to be tedious and torturous. I hate going into them for the most part.

[RUK]

I agree with the OP. A good AD can make your purchase a very memorable exp. I bought my Rolexs, Omega and JLC from an AD and they took good care of me.

I could have saved about 10-15% by going with an online dealer or a non AD but I wont get the face to face experience + AD goodies.

On the other hand a AD with bad sales people can ruin your day ( no experience, pushy)

The main gain I think is the ongoing relationship you build and what that gets you with a good AD.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by nygo

I've heard price. Why pay full price if you can get X amount cheaper from X on the forum. When I bought my first Rolex, it was all about the experience. I went into Wempe. Was offered chocolates and Pellegrino. I didn't make a purchase that day -- didn't feel pressured. Came back another weekend, tried on a few watches. Some not even Rolex. Then finally when I was about to make my purchase, the sales person insisted I take my time. No rush. When I finally pulled the trigger, I was offered Veuve Clicquot and even had the watch boxed and gift wrapped. Now, THATs a luxury experience. When you think Rolex, don't you just think luxury and luxury experience? About building a rapport with a salesperson? Or am I just old fashioned? And, has it all just come down to the absolute lowest price?

When you walk past an ADs just remember alcohol and sugar have killed more people than religion so keep on walking to your nearest trf seller.

[iazrollie]

Originally Posted by samuel019

I've done both. Here and at my A D. Had nothing but great experiences here but at my A D I've had some great and some bad. Just last week I went there to look at a few Daytona's. They only had an older slate dial and when I inquired about the blue Arabic and Panda dial you wanna know what the guy said????



Are you sure they make that in a Daytona?



I was like really? But politely said I'm sure and walked out. So all in all I prefer here although I must admit I go to an A D from time to time.



Just so I can try them on. Lol. Can't do that online.

Lol. I went into tourneau one time to ask if I could switch out the dial on my Daytona. The sales rep said she would have to send the watch to Rolex for the answer. When I told her that was absurd, she PHOTOCOPIED the watch, so she could inquire further. I walked out, called wempe and got an immediate and accurate answer.

[1William]

Very interesting points brought forward and depending on how you look at things there is no wrong answer. I have purchased many times from AD's and from gray market/Trusted sellers. As I have gotten older the experience that I am looking for is the best product for the best price from a reliable dealer who will stand behind what they are selling. My local AD and I have a great relationship as I buy not only watches from them but cufflinks, pens and most of my wife's jewelry. When it comes to watches we have discussed that on most lines they can not, or choose not to, sell for what I can source the watch from a Trusted Seller here on the TRF. No hard feelings and the do an appraisal for free and invite me to all events. In the end it is about ownership of the watch I want at the best price from sources I trust and who will stand behind what they sell.