Incoming DRSD! Did I get burned?

[1watch]

I can’t even follow this whole story and it’s very odd to see the OP quoting earlier comments and responding as if in the 3rd person.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zz101]

Originally Posted by 1watch

I can’t even follow this whole story and it’s very odd to see the OP quoting earlier comments and responding as if in the 3rd person.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That was actually quoting ( or attempted to) Dhknola’s post about 4 up. Not sure how it ended up with my name as the quote.

[White Collar Boy]

OP, sorry to read you got burned. It’s an awful but instructive story.

I understand the impulse to act quickly when something you want comes up in the classifieds. My hobby before watches was vintage Fender guitars and amplifiers, an area also exploited by scammers and unscrupulous sellers. I’ve spoken with more than a couple of likely scammers on the phone, me too eager to get something rarely available before it disappears, and they usually sound like a credible, non-criminal punter. Been burned twice, but one of those was covered on eBay and I was lucky to return for refund.

I hope somehow this pans out well for you, and that there is a special fraud unit—apart from the standard police—that might be able to help you.

[SailingLife]

How much did you pay?

[SailingLife]

Maybe post a shot of the CL ad?

[springer]

Originally Posted by scooba

Michael Morgan is a expert and also very very busy if he says its fake rest assured it will be , Please accept its a lemon and unfortunately it looks like you have been left holding it

Yes, how so Morgan.

[Zz101]

Originally Posted by springer

Yes, how so Morgan.

Ha! I’m guessing he’s a bit of a longtime expert around here. I didn’t know at the time.

Wasn’t asking him to be rude was just trying to learn why. Hadn’t yet realized how badly I was scammed. Had some discussions with him last night though, seems to be a very knowledgeable and honest guy.

[1665fan]

On a good note there is a 2 tone 1675, 3.4 mill serial on the for sale forum with the same stamped not punched papers for sale.....so maybe the papers are legit....fake watch built around the papers.....

[Acidstain]

Since you gave cash inside the bank snd the daughter deposited, maybe get the police involved to force the bank to reveal who’s account the cash was deposited to? I’m sure give the day and time aling with security cam videos they can see the “daughter” and figure out which account she deposited the cash into.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[springer]

Originally Posted by 1665fan

Papers are fake....well at least the fake punch they used on the numbers....the holes don’t even go through the paper.....

The papers appear 100% legit. Since you obviously haven't seen these before, why call them fake? I've owned several watches with this type of font stamping for the serial number. Do a google search and you'll see plenty like this!

[springer]

Originally Posted by Zz101

For a very short time papers where embossed, not punched. Every comparable example I’ve seen of that has been the 3 million serial range.

I've seen these type of embossed serial number papers into the 1980s.

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by springer

The papers appear 100% legit. Since you obviously haven't seen these before, why call them fake? I've owned several watches with this type of font stamping for the serial number. Do a google search and you'll see plenty like this!

If the papers are legitimate, it is entirely possible the fraudsters got the papers first, and then had the case engraved to order.

[twnturbo]

Bummer dude but man you got 82 previous posts & clearly not a newb here ,post those pics before you buy ,people here would've commented immediately just like they did in this thread .

[scooba]

This stands as a lesson for all off us if you aren’t sure Please ask a expert.

It may cost you for a proper appraisal but it would save a lot off heartache,money ,time .

[vintagewatch]

When (or if) you involved law enforcement in this matter were they made aware the transaction took place inside a bank? Security cameras aside, many states have laws regarding transacting illegal/fraudulent (if provable) business inside financial institutions beyond the penalties of conducting this behavior elsewhere. Also, I bring this up as a leveraging tool to use if you're able to make contact with the seller. I wish you luck in remedying this situation.

[WatchEater666]

Getting scammed is not fun but be as aggressive as possible getting your money back. Think of how much it is pretax!

[rolexsgman]

Originally Posted by psv

First of all, sorry that you have fallen victim to a fake/altered/Franken-watch/scam. It sucks. The dial is definitely fugazzi. I would venture to say that the paper as well - you would be amazed for professionals can do.

Secondly, thank you for having the balls to share your story with us. We will all learn from it and it increases everyone's knowledge. Ignore the "how could you?"-comments - no point in dwelling on the past.

I hope the old man gives you all the money back. He may or may not know that he was dealing with a fake product, it doesn't matter, that is on him. Whatever he bought it for "way back when" (if that is really the case) it would have been a lot less than what he made you pay. Get all your money back and say that you'll involve policy and prosecutor asap. Don't let the poor-old-guy situation make you soft, there is a good chance that this guy knows exactly what he is doing.

May we ask how much you ended up paying for this product?

Hi, is it normal to have hand written papers instead of punched ones of these models? Thank You.

ps: learning here.

[rolexsgman]

or depending on the years sold in?

Thank You.

ps: learning here..

[Wahlberg]

Written agreements/contracts are valid? I did this a while ago when I bought a vintage watch and had to return it. Probably still a hassle to get everything done and back if things go to shit. Also depends who you are dealing with, you need an actual name/ID/address and such.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by springer

The papers appear 100% legit. Since you obviously haven't seen these before, why call them fake? I've owned several watches with this type of font stamping for the serial number. Do a google search and you'll see plenty like this!

Yea funny you mention that now after I corrected myself....

[foil_guy]

It certainly seems that Rolex/Tudor and playing with fire are sometimes one and the same now a days for the unwashed. The days when it didn't matter because they where cheap are gone unfortunately. I still remember buying a Tudor sub 7016/0, that came with a Rolex service box and 3 riveted Rolex straps for £300 in the early 2000's. 2 years later i sold the straps for £200 each, and the Tudor for £700. That should of given me the clue as to appreciation.

There is a part of me that can empathize. I remember driving 200 miles to purchase a 6536/1 with 6636 bracelet, of which i knew nothing about, around 6 years ago for £5500. Did i buy a dude. Well someone had re-lumed the original gilt dial and handset with a horrid pepsodent lume. Luckily by virtue of time, I've probably got something which meant it was still a good investment. My recent purchase an '85 5513, again was a hasty decision, whilst seeing a saleroom listing the night before in the local auction house. Again, fortunately i lucked out. Sure both looked fairly good to my eyes. But now that i think back, i kind of cringe. I know i'd be gutted if I messed up, so fair play to the PO for sharing this tale of woe.

[psv]

Lots of lessons learned here. If it seems to good to be true... There were plenty of flags here, but OP/buyer proceeded anyhow. Expensive lesson but not the end of the world.

General question: is it fair to ask a buyer for a copy of their ID/driver's license in a deal like this?

[shiftf7]

Movement and bracelet are gen, rest of the parts fake, even the crown, too bad!

[SunTzu]

Originally Posted by psv

General question: is it fair to ask a buyer for a copy of their ID/driver's license in a deal like this?

I'd never give some stranger a copy of my driver's license. Either you do your due diligence, follow your instincts, want to make a completely voluntary transaction based on what I'm offering and you're willing to give; or you don't.

It's like buying a used car out of the local classifieds. I sold a 1996 Honda Civic that was my grandmother's to another resident of my town for his daughter to have. He asked if his mechanic can look at it, I said yes, and then we agreed on a price. He never needed a copy of my license and if he asked I would have declined.

[White Collar Boy]

Originally Posted by psv

General question: is it fair to ask a buyer for a copy of their ID/driver's license in a deal like this?

I am inexperienced with watches, but at least in Australia, a driver licence is a piece of personal identification to be extremely careful with; should identity theft occur, you cannot change your licence number without political intervention. You could ask, but I would never share it, at least not without redacting certain details.

[subtona]

Ouch

[77T]

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

If the papers are legitimate, it is entirely possible the fraudsters got the papers first, and then had the case engraved to order.

That is one way vintage is faked - it’s not just possible it is the most likely explanation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Chunky]

...

[AJMarcus]

Why would you keep a watch if you know the dial and hands to be fake? We all know the dial is the most important thing in a vintage piece assuming the movement is legit. Do you realize The easiest thing to fake are papers actually. That’s done regularly with the Chinese counterfeits. I’m sorry this has happened to you. But I don’t think you should accept his no return policy. Once you have a watchmaker examine it maybe then you can apply some pressure on him to give you your money back.

[AJMarcus]

Originally Posted by psv

Lots of lessons learned here. If it seems to good to be true... There were plenty of flags here, but OP/buyer proceeded anyhow. Expensive lesson but not the end of the world.

General question: is it fair to ask a buyer for a copy of their ID/driver's license in a deal like this?

It’s a fair ask. I’ve done it. It’s all about minimizing risk and being safe.