Kobe beef in the US is FAKE!

[Rsvrider]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

I am a huge beef guy, I've paid the premium more than once, and I'm pissed!

That's exactly how I feel and the reason I posted the thread. I know the process of Kobe and it is why I've agreed on the surcharge BUT I feel robbed and insulted knowing now that it was all a scam.
Yes, USDA beef (any grade) is great, but it's not right to try and pass it as something it's not.

[GoldenBear]

Originally Posted by wantonebad

I would also respectfully disagree, Champagne and the wine that is produced is distinctly representitive of that house and specific to that terroir. Anything that is produced in the méthode champenoise is a sparkling wine that represents the land where it's grapes were sourced and the manipulation of the fruit/fermentation by the wine maker. It's apples and oranges. JMHO

The French name their wines for the region (appellation) not the grape as we do in the US. They also have strict and numerous quality control(s) for production in place. Champagne and Burgundy, for example, can ONLY be called that if they are from those regions France. No sparkling wine produced outside the Champagne region can legally called Champagne. Terroir is something different altogether.

[Rsvrider]

Btw, I mentioned paying $90-$85 per 100grms of steak on hot rocks. FAKE too!
Wagyu beef is a scam too. Wonder if I should have posted this in the Watch Out section instead.
Do realize that 9oz of steak = 255grms. Those of you who think its ok to be deceptive please do the math. Most men eat al least 12oz of steak, here in Texas 16oz is the norm.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryolm...nd-wagyu-beef/

From Forbes:
Kobe is the capital of Hyogo prefecture, where all authentic Kobe beef comes from. Hyogo has a climate, tradition and environment suited to raising cows with really delicious beef, thanks to an extraordinary level of fat marbling. However, it is a crappy place to grow oranges. So imagine you are an orange farmer in Kobe and understandably, no one wants to pay a premium for your juice. You can try harder, do your job better, and build a positive name for your product, or you can find a place where they have already spent generations perfecting their craft and building a reputation for their brand and simply steal it. As long as your own country’s laws don’t care, this is a quick and easy path to ripping off consumers. “Domestic Kobe beef” is the U.S. equivalent of the Kobe farmer bottling and selling “domestic Florida Orange juice” to con consumers into paying a premium for a product unrelated to its namesake reputation.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Rsvrider

Btw, I mentioned paying $90-$85 per 100grms of steak on hot rocks. FAKE too!
Wagyu beef is a scam too. Wonder if I should have posted this in the Watch Out section instead.
Do realize that 9oz of steak = 255grms. Those of you who think its ok to be deceptive please do the math. Most men eat al least 12oz of steak, here in Texas 16oz is the norm.

[rr-nyc]

This should be no surprise. I have had Japanese kobe in NYC before the initial ban on importing Japanese beef in 2001.

To me, it's similar to people telling me that their favorite sushi restaurant in the US only uses fresh out of the ocean fish and isn't frozen fish.

[fusionstorm]

I'm not going to point fingers at anyone in this thread. But reading through several pages of posts, a metaphor comes to mind......."ignorance is bliss".

Back on topic, this has been an issue for some time now. I wrote a pretty long post on the Chowhound site back in 2007 about the mislabeling of Kobe. Original text can be found here, but I'll quote it for immediate reading:

Almost any Kobe or Wagyu beef that one could procure in the US (certainly anything in the sub-$40 per pound category) is from either US or Australian-raised Wagyu strain cattle. Intrepid Japanese producers realized awhile back that the demand for Kobe (or other high-grade Japanese beef from different breeds, such as Matsuzaka) would be higher than what breeders in Japan could supply (due primarily to the lack of suitable land available for raising cattle), so they partnered with American and Australian producers to start raising cattle for them in their respective countries. Much of this cattle is shipped back to Japan for 18-24 months of "finishing", meaning the Japanese producers would oversee the final stages of maturation before converting the cattle into beef for the domestic Japanese market.

However, by agreement these US & Australian breeders are also to keep a certain percentage of the Wagyu cattle they raise to convert into finished steak products for the domestic American & Australian markets. This is what you typically get when you purchase Kobe/Wagyu beef in the US.

The 3rd and most rare form of Kobe beef is from cattle born, raised and slaughtered entirely on Japanese soil with no foreign intervention whatsoever. Most of this beef does not conform to USDA standards for raising cattle (e.g. lacking the necessary innoculations or not having the USDA certifications for organic environments), and is not legally available in the US (though, like any illegal substance, it is smuggled in). There are a small number of Japanese producers who do export beef from cattle raised 100% on Japanese soil that meets USDA standards, but this amount is miniscule and the resulting price is extremely high.

When I was in Tokyo, I tried Kobe beef and Matsuzaka beef. Each was an exquisite, ethereal experience (and it better have been, from the French Laundry-esque bill that came at the end of the meal). Kobe beef I've had here in the US (from US-raised cattle) was not nearly as good (but better than the typical Prime beef IMO).

Here's a link to an Englishman who actually visited a producer in Kobe, Japan and sheds good light on the "secretiveness" of the industry: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/foodm...889220,00.html

Channel 7 locally did a segment with the executive chef @ Alexander's in Cupertino (ask for the certification if what you're ordering is supposed to be 100% Japanese Kobe beef!!): http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...ood&id=4974632

And here's info from the USDA about the lifting of the ban on Japanese-raised beef: http://www.aphis.usda.gov/lpa/pubs/fs...

Now I'm REALLY hungry.....

For anyone who goes to Japan and wants to eat "genuine" Japanese beef, choose Matsuzaka or (if you're lucky enough to find it) Mishima beef. Kobe is tasty, but if you're going to eat an "only in Japan" product, get the stuff that hasn't been exported and homogenized. I've had Matsuzaka, and it's extraordinary. Mishima beef has reached mythological status amongst beef connoisseurs. For more background on the varieties of beef produced in Japan, check this out.

[TheDude]

As with nearly all topics, reporters often get things wrong. While I think you'd have fingers left over on one hand if you counted the restaurants that have true Kobe, it does exist in the US. At least one restaurant in Las Vegas gets the real stuff and they're quite vocal about how impossibly rare it is.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[mgent]

I agree with fusionstorm... I've had Matsuzaka, Mishima and Kobe on various trips to Japan - M and M blow Kobe away. I've had many steaks here in the US that were better than Kobe. It really has high name recognition, and is excellent beef, but it is not as incredible as some would believe...

In the end, order what you want, no matter what it is called, and if you enjoy it, then why does it matter?

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by jdc

No its not its down to the French restrictions on what a sparkling wine can be called, it has to be grown in a certain area to be called champagne, it does not mean that over places cannot produce fine wine
http://www.decanter.com/news/wine-ne...ng-competition

You miss understood what I said, basically you just said "no it's not" and paraphrased my post?

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

The French name their wines for the region (appellation) not the grape as we do in the US. They also have strict and numerous quality control(s) for production in place. Champagne and Burgundy, for example, can ONLY be called that if they are from those regions France. No sparkling wine produced outside the Champagne region can legally called Champagne. Terroir is something different altogether.

Who said sparkling wine outside of Champagne was Champagne?

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by transio

Too bad. You probably had really awesome steaks for what you paid, a d it's a shame you now won't remember those wonderful meals fondly. To me, if you're a huge beef guy, news like this is just an excuse to start planning a killer trip to Japan!

If I get a partial refund I'll go back to liking it I promise.

[GoldenBear]

Who said sparkling wine outside of Champagne was Champagne?[/QUOTE]

Looks like it was the guy you quoted...My point (and maybe yours too) is that all Champagne is sparkling wine, but not all sparkling wine is Champagne.

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by GoldenBear

Who said sparkling wine outside of Champagne was Champagne?

Looks like it was the guy you quoted...My point (and maybe yours too) is that all Champagne is sparkling wine, but not all sparkling wine is Champagne.

Zzzzzactly!,

I made the point cause Steve (transio) said

Originally Posted by transio

What is in a name?

It's like saying if it wasn't from France, you haven't drunk champagne.

Faux-be | Kobe... sparkling wine | champagne.... if it follows the same process, it's the same stuff, even if it doesn't have the brand name.

which I took issue with and then you and jdc set out to correct me LOL

[MoBe]

`and that Atlantic Salmon or that Orange Roughy or that Red Snapper that you thought you were buying from your fish monger or grocery store?Don`t believe it!

DNA testing has proved that there`s a lot of fraud going on in the food industry these days and consumers are getting ripped off more than they know.

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by MoBe

`and that Atlantic Salmon or that Orange Roughy or that Red Snapper that you thought you were buying from your fish monger or grocery store?Don`t believe it!

DNA testing has proved that there`s a lot of fraud going on in the food industry these days and consumers are getting ripped off more than they know.

Very true!

[gwalker]

Originally Posted by MoBe

`and that Atlantic Salmon or that Orange Roughy or that Red Snapper that you thought you were buying from your fish monger or grocery store?Don`t believe it!

DNA testing has proved that there`s a lot of fraud going on in the food industry these days and consumers are getting ripped off more than they know.

That's why I love living in Cape May. I know where my fish comes from. As far as the beef thing goes I was under the impression Kobe beef only comes from that region of Japan. The actual cattle from there was brought into the US, bred with American cattle and should be called Waygu beef here. All you have to do is look at the beef and you can tell the difference. Its like the oysters from Brittany that are moved to Maine or where ever. Not the same. It has as much to do with where they are raised as to what is raised. Still if you pay $45 for a burger you got took anyway...

[Rsvrider]

Originally Posted by gwalker

Still if you pay $45 for a burger you got took anyway...

Yes I did, at didn't mind at the time bc it was a toasted brioche with caramelized onions, melted emental and truffle pomme frites! Plus the bar is on the upscale side of things. But knowing what I know now, not so happy. And btw I did pay $15 or so for the Makers infused chocolate shake I ordered to go w the burger.
I don't mind paying for deliscious food, I do mInd not getting what I paid for.

[tranny]

Originally Posted by Rsvrider

I don't mind paying for deliscious food, I do mInd not getting what I paid for.

If you're paying for delicious food, you know if you got what you paid for the minute you bite into it.

[gwalker]

Originally Posted by Rsvrider

Yes I did, at didn't mind at the time bc it was a toasted brioche with caramelized onions, melted emental and truffle pomme frites! Plus the bar is on the upscale side of things. But knowing what I know now, not so happy. And btw I did pay $15 or so for the Makers infused chocolate shake I ordered to go w the burger.
I don't mind paying for deliscious food, I do mInd not getting what I paid for.

I was kinda joking about the getting took thing. I've paid $35 for a burger once. It was good but I don't care about it being cooked in truffle oil or whatever. Now I'd like to try that shake!!!!!! I agree about paying for great food. One of my passions and IMHO well worth spending $$$$ for an excellent meal.

[FNFZ4]

good thing I cant eat beef.../

[Cru Jones]

i knew something was fishy when i started seeing kobe beef everywhere in the states....i didn't think it was possible that there were that many cows in japan to produce so much kobe beef. pretty amazing that this is a story in 2012.

in the U.S., one has to take all the food labels with a grain of salt. the strict controls on naming in the EU is something i've come to appreciate.

doesn't mean things named something other than champagne or feta can't be good, but, at least you KNOW that a feta is a feta and champagne is champagne here.

[Dr. Robert]

Bah humbug on overpriced Kobe beef....only Kobe I like is Kobe Bryant.....I prefer In & Out and Five Guys burgers.

[Tri-Tip]

I was at Cut 2 years ago, Wolfgang Puck's restaurant, and they explained that Japan did not allow the exportation of Kobe Beef, and that has been the case for about 4 years now.

There is another beef from New Zealand (IIRC) that is supposed to be just as good, and just as expensive.

[wantonebad]

Originally Posted by Tri-Tip

I was at Cut 2 years ago, Wolfgang Puck's restaurant, and they explained that Japan did not allow the exportation of Kobe Beef, and that has been the case for about 4 years now.

There is another beef from New Zealand (IIRC) that is supposed to be just as good, and just as expensive.

I was there also (LA) and they were selling 2 versions of American Waygu and an Australian version, I had the lesser grade and it was still one of he best NY Strips I have ever had! As i remember they listed all of the Waygu as "Kobe Style" so there was no confusion there!

[Demosthene]

I always thought it was fairly obvious after basic research, that most Kobe beef is not actually Kobe beef.
Or am I the only one who obsessively Google things I don’t know?

[GoldenBear]

On the other hand, sometimes the 'other' is better...arguably, some of California Pinot's are as good as, if not better, than Burgundy from France, same with the sparkling wine.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by Tri-Tip

I was at Cut 2 years ago, Wolfgang Puck's restaurant, and they explained that Japan did not allow the exportation of Kobe Beef, and that has been the case for about 4 years now.

I don't believe that's the case at all

[GradyPhilpott]

Perhaps a good analogy would be the difference between a Cuban cigar and a cigar made from Cuban-seed tobacco.

[Gaijin]

I lived in Kobe for years. What a great city by the way. Great beef too. Just melts in your mouth. I also recommend beef from Saga Japan and Ikishima ( a small island off in Nagasaki Prefecure.) Best steak I ever had in my life. Period.


I had "Kobe beef" in the States. Just was not the same. I thought something was suspicious.

[toph]

Originally Posted by transio

No, it's like paying $5,000 for a Grand Seiko and saying "it's the same basic thing as a Rolex". And for all intents and purposes, it is.

so why didnt restuarants say it is like kobe beef rather than 'it is kobe beef', which is lying
I am not saying this is the end of the world but it is selling a fake not a simliar item

[FeelingTheBlues]

Originally Posted by toph

so why didnt restuarants say it is like kobe beef rather than 'it is kobe beef', which is lying
I am not saying this is the end of the world but it is selling a fake not a simliar item

This is such the end of the world!

...