What's going on?

[jbutler]

Originally Posted by shandy

I agree 100% with you Faith, it seems we never see the answer to that as that behaviour seems to be not only tolerated but applauded by a great many here

Exactly. It's not funny when you're the one being picked on. It's just become so blatant that its amazing it continues.

[kcmo]

I hope that Steve will step in shortly to offer his support!

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by kcmo

I hope that Steve will step in shortly to offer his support!

Please!!!!

[jbutler]

Originally Posted by kcmo

I hope that Steve will step in shortly to offer his support!

Hopefully with more than just a lock.

[Nicko]

I too value my membership here, hence the tape on my mouth, otherwise I'd be tempted to use a flamethrower!

[Taffi Abernathy]

My friend Jim issued an apology for his behavior. Yes, he was angry, saw the mean-spirited nature of the remarks, and stood up for me. I want it publicly known that I am deeply grateful for a friend like him who saw unfairness and didn't turn a blind eye to injustice of the comments or the unjust person generating them.

[shandy]

Originally Posted by nicko

please!!!!

+1!

[Tools]

I am constantly amazed that these threads pop up from time to time..

I am also amazed that there is friction between complete strangers, except within the confines of a known, and voluntary, membership in a Forum - and even further, one that is not set up to be a chat room........

I don't want to get into who did what to who, or who can't get along with somebody else... But, this is an international forum with members from all walks of life........... some are nice, and some are not so nice.. some I would be happy to join for a drink or dinner, and others, not-so-much..

A forum cannot simply ban, or delete accounts of members because somebody else within the membership cannot get along with them............ The Staff also cannot go around and slap hands constantly because somebody had their feelings hurt or perceived a slight that may, or may not be there.............It is a sensless and pointless exercise that will eventually lead to no members at all except a few like-minded individuals who only converse with themselves..

Here is the simple solution..............

Put whomever you cannot get along with on your Ignore List ..

-- Really...... Do it !! Now !!!

When a member is on your ignore list you will not get any pm's from them, and you will not display their posts...

............ Isn't that simple..........

[shandy]

Originally Posted by Taffi Abernathy

My friend Jim issued an apology for his behavior. Yes, he was angry, saw the mean-spirited nature of the remarks, and stood up for me. I want it publicly known that I am deeply grateful for a friend like him who saw unfairness and didn't turn a blind eye to injustice of the comments or the unjust person generating them.

See, that is the act of a real man, good on you Jim

[datejust1]

Originally Posted by shandy

I am posting this, it is a copy of what I posted on princes thread, this place and the behaviour of some really dissapoint me now!

"Which is why I hardly ever visit any more. It seems the ones who create the problems are supported and encouraged the most and allowed their juvinile behaviour at the expense of mainly the women on the forum. I think that is why you are seeing some veiled accusations, when folks report it they are treated worse than the offenders. I try to keep out of the nonsense but seeing as the nonsense seems to be the prevailing wind nowadays it is hard not to say my piece!

I am sorry but it seems the mysogynistic bullys seem to rule the roost here nowadays (they are but a handful but seem to have the loudest voices and I know of one at least that has personally imtimidated one memeber and that member feels no point in complaining as when she has in the past she is told that she needs to lighten up!) so it just is not a nice place to visit anymore.

Ah well, I guess by writing this I will be attacked by the usual suspects but what the eh! Seems truth and decency count for little here anymore and from private emails from other members I am not the only one.

Still, the old boys club keeps going so what I think does not matter.


Forums continually change but this one now seems stuck in a less than wonderful place. Heck, it even puts me off posting on the pen forum anymore!"

Attack away if you wish, bullies have never scared me and I for one am fed up with the way the women on this forum are treated, it is common, and frankly low class!
__________________

Well Said, Ian... I agree 100%

Originally Posted by jbutler

Exactly. It's not funny when you're the one being picked on. It's just become so blatant that its amazing it continues.

x2.

Originally Posted by Nicko

Please!!!!

+3

Originally Posted by Tools

I am constantly amazed that these threads pop up from time to time..

I am also amazed that there is friction between complete strangers, except within the confines of a known, and voluntary, membership in a Forum - and even further, one that is not set up to be a chat room........

I don't want to get into who did what to who, or who can't get along with somebody else... But, this is an international forum with members from all walks of life........... some are nice, and some are not so nice.. some I would be happy to join for a drink or dinner, and others, not-so-much..

A forum cannot simply ban, or delete accounts of members because somebody else within the membership cannot get along with them............ The Staff also cannot go around and slap hands constantly because somebody had their feelings hurt or perceived a slight that may, or may not be there.............It is a sensless and pointless exercise that will eventually lead to no members at all except a few like-minded individuals who only converse with themselves..

Here is the simple solution..............

Put whomever you cannot get along with on your Ignore List ..

-- Really...... Do it !! Now !!!

When a member is on your ignore list you will not get any pm's from them, and you will not display their posts...

............ Isn't that simple..........

Ain't that simple!

[figbo]

Originally Posted by Tools

I am constantly amazed that these threads pop up from time to time..

I am also amazed that there is friction between complete strangers, except within the confines of a known, and voluntary, membership in a Forum - and even further, one that is not set up to be a chat room........

I don't want to get into who did what to who, or who can't get along with somebody else... But, this is an international forum with members from all walks of life........... some are nice, and some are not so nice.. some I would be happy to join for a drink or dinner, and others, not-so-much..

A forum cannot simply ban, or delete accounts of members because somebody else within the membership cannot get along with them............ The Staff also cannot go around and slap hands constantly because somebody had their feelings hurt or perceived a slight that may, or may not be there.............It is a sensless and pointless exercise that will eventually lead to no members at all except a few like-minded individuals who only converse with themselves..

Here is the simple solution..............

Put whomever you cannot get along with on your Ignore List ..

-- Really...... Do it !! Now !!!

When a member is on your ignore list you will not get any pm's from them, and you will not display their posts...

............ Isn't that simple..........

Thank you Larry.

[Taffi Abernathy]

Larry,

Putting people on the "Ignore List" doesn't always solve the problem. Behavior which has no negative consequences is strengthened over time. In other words, the perpetrator gets away with certain behaviors because he can. And therein lies the problem!!!

[figbo]

Wow,I take a few days off for my b-day and all heck break loose.

[robertneville]

Very well said Larry!

Originally Posted by Tools

I am constantly amazed that these threads pop up from time to time..

I am also amazed that there is friction between complete strangers, except within the confines of a known, and voluntary, membership in a Forum - and even further, one that is not set up to be a chat room........

I don't want to get into who did what to who, or who can't get along with somebody else... But, this is an international forum with members from all walks of life........... some are nice, and some are not so nice.. some I would be happy to join for a drink or dinner, and others, not-so-much..

A forum cannot simply ban, or delete accounts of members because somebody else within the membership cannot get along with them............ The Staff also cannot go around and slap hands constantly because somebody had their feelings hurt or perceived a slight that may, or may not be there.............It is a sensless and pointless exercise that will eventually lead to no members at all except a few like-minded individuals who only converse with themselves..

Here is the simple solution..............

Put whomever you cannot get along with on your Ignore List ..

-- Really...... Do it !! Now !!!

When a member is on your ignore list you will not get any pm's from them, and you will not display their posts...

............ Isn't that simple..........

[kcmo]

Originally Posted by Taffi Abernathy

Larry,

Putting people on the "Ignore List" doesn't always solve the problem. Behavior which has no negative consequences is strengthened over time. In other words, the perpetrator gets away with certain behaviors because he can.

Agree with Faith

[datejust1]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Agree with Faith

Make that two

[jbutler]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Agree with Faith

Agree with both of you.

[shandy]

Originally Posted by Tools

A forum cannot simply ban, or delete accounts of members because somebody else within the membership cannot get along with them............ The Staff also cannot go around and slap hands constantly because somebody had their feelings hurt or perceived a slight that may, or may not be there.............It is a sensless and pointless exercise that will eventually lead to no members at all except a few like-minded individuals who only converse with themselves..



............ Isn't that simple..........

I think the thing here is Larry that those who's hands get slapped are the ones who complain about the borish behaviour and the whilst the borish ones just get championed!

To be honest,your repsonse is exaclty that which comes from most of the mods and owner, stop being a winer and shut up which is basically what you are saying!

The ignore feature is to be honest a usless one that does not solve the problem and to say that it is because the forum is multicultural is frankly copping out! Decency and good manners cross all borders (at least they do in my experience!).

I notice that the bullies do not get that treatment! Sorry, it has to be said, put points on me if you will or ban me, it seems freedom of speech is a one way route here!

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Taffi Abernathy

Larry,

Putting people on the "Ignore List" doesn't always solve the problem. Behavior which has no negative consequences is strengthened over time. In other words, the perpetrator gets away with certain behaviors because he can. And therein lies the problem!!!

They can because they are enabled......... They are enabled by the responses they see/perceive from those who they view as their "target"..

No target, no reason to continue, and they can go off to another playground..

There is no "problem" on a forum...the problem is with the individuals and there is no conceivable reason why any (watch) Forum should be involved in the solving of individuals problem areas...... or continue to fuel their desires for confrontation...

[jbutler]

Originally Posted by Tools

They can because they are enabled......... They are enabled by the responses they see/perceive from those who they view as their "target"..

No target, no reason to continue, and they can go off to another playground..

There is no "problem" on a forum...the problem is with the individuals and there is no conceivable reason why any (watch) Forum should be involved in the solving of individuals problem areas...... or continue to fuel their desires for confrontation...

To blame the person being bullied leaves me... speechless. For the best, I guess.

[Taffi Abernathy]

Originally Posted by Tools

They can because they are enabled......... They are enabled by the responses they see/perceive from those who they view as their "target"..

No target, no reason to continue, and they can go off to another playground..

There is no "problem" on a forum...the problem is with the individuals and there is no conceivable reason why any (watch) Forum should be involved in the solving of individuals problem areas...... or continue to fuel their desires for confrontation...

I don't agree with you, and here's why . . . I have tried it your way, kept my mouth shut for months watching these passive-aggressive insults aimed at me, even with the person on the "Ignore List," other concerned members would e-mail calling my attention to certain comments. The bottom line is he didn't go "off into another playground." I feel that person shouldn't be allowed to escape consequences for poor behavior. I am tired of talking and feel like it has fallen on deaf ears. It doesn't matter what I or others say since we are not mods, there exists a power differential and we will not prevail.

[Taffi Abernathy]

I can send you several unsolicited PMs from other members now complaining about this same individual. Are we all to put him on "Ignore" status or should he raise the bar with his behavior?

[shandy]

Originally Posted by Tools

They can because they are enabled......... They are enabled by the responses they see/perceive from those who they view as their "target"..

No target, no reason to continue, and they can go off to another playground..

There is no "problem" on a forum...the problem is with the individuals and there is no conceivable reason why any (watch) Forum should be involved in the solving of individuals problem areas...... or continue to fuel their desires for confrontation...

I completey disagree and your response as one of the administrators of the forum really shows the truth about how you want this place to be!

The forum is a collective of individuals without which there would be no forum!
To say the forum has no problem it is the individuals that do is to negate your comment!
The forum is the individual en mass and so an individual who recieves abuse is the forums problem as are the bullies who perpetrate said abuse!

[kcmo]

Larry, I have to disagree with you as well.

I've been a member here for several years and BOY HAS IT CHANGED! I'm not foolish enough to believe that things will stay the same forever, but I DO expect that the owner and mods here set the tone!!!

DISRESPECT, SEXISM, and plain ole' meanness should NOT be tolerated.

I'm in support of Faith and Ian and what they've said here.....I'm a little surprised you aren't.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by jbutler

To blame the person being bullied leaves me... speechless. For the best, I guess.

Well, this is certainly a knee jerk reaction............ I do not see that anybody, especially me, has assigned any "blame" to anyone, especially not to any single member of this forum..

To decide that this is "bullying", and use other flag words in todays lexicon to attempt to prove, or even establish, a point is disengenuous at best.

If any member of any forum feels slighted in any way, the simplest solution is to ignore that preceived slight.......... It's a forum without any tangible strings or limbs and you cannot be "bullied" without engaging in the event..

There is a guide for conduct within the forum......... that guide allows for the staff to assign points for certain language and behaviour directed toward another member - not perception. Points are assigned and assessed all the time and an accumulation of a minimum number does result in "punishment". Points are not assigned without cause or for a simple disagreement or point of view........

There has not been an instance of demonstrable "bullying" that has not been dealt with...............

[Tools]

Originally Posted by kcmo

Larry, I have to disagree with you as well.

I've been a member here for several years and BOY HAS IT CHANGED! I'm not foolish enough to believe that things will stay the same forever, but I DO expect that the owner and mods here set the tone!!!

DISRESPECT, SEXISM, and plain ole' meanness should NOT be tolerated.

I'm in support of Faith and Ian and what they've said here.....I'm a little surprised you aren't.

I am fully in support of you and the others.............. Perhaps you are all reading my position as a personal assault rather than an approach to Forum Management...

I will say that I do not frequent the "Open Forum" as much as I could...because the back-and-forth is not what interests me.. I believe that all the staff would say that "DISRESPECT, SEXISM, and plain ole' meanness should NOT be tolerated."

But, this is where there are always two (or more) sides to each issue.. For every complaint we get from one member, we may get another or more that go the other way.... Individual members only see from their personal perspective and the support group that they accumulate along the way.... But, there is an entire 30,000 member group here that must be herded like cats along some loosely guided path....

Not an easy task...

[Taffi Abernathy]

Here's the bottom line: What are you defending? If the manner in which this forum is run has been so effective, then why are so many complaining about a sense of injustice and blaming the victim?
If the forums ways of operating were so effective then where the hell is this overriding sense of unhappiness and poor morale coming from?

[rsg]

Originally Posted by Taffi Abernathy

Here's the bottom line: What are you defending? If the manner in which this forum is run has been so effective, then why are so many complaining about a sense of injustice and blaming the victim?
If the forums ways of operating were so effective then where the hell is this overriding sense of unhappiness and poor morale coming from?

Common courtesy should be the rule, but it is rarely the case in public forums.
I think there are a handful (or two) of people who frequent this section of the forum that like to stir the pot and others who like to be stirred. I don't think there is a forum wide overriding sense of unhappiness.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Taffi Abernathy

Here's the bottom line: What are you defending? If the manner in which this forum is run has been so effective, then why are so many complaining about a sense of injustice and blaming the victim?
If the forums ways of operating were so effective then where the hell is this overriding sense of unhappiness and poor morale coming from?

Well, you don't need to yell... There is nothing wrong with my hearing..

I'm not defending anybody or any thing.. I am simply stating a Forum Management perspective..

I, along with the rest of the staff, want the Forum to run smoothly with a minimum amount of discord - given that there will always be some in any activity as large as this one has become..

Outside of the actual Forum itself, I do not take sides..

As for "How the Forum is run.". This is a non-profit, non-advertising Forum for like minded individuals to come together and it is intended to be run for the mutual satisfaction of all members..

We know that there are a few immature individuals who constantly re-register after being banned with the sole intention of disruption...the definition of "Troll". There are also thin skinned individuals who see everything as a personal affront...... these are challenges for us..

The "Overriding sense of unhappiness and poor morale" is an interesting attribute that you place on an entire Forum when it only seems to crop up from time to time here on the Open Forum.. But I might challenge members to show (yes prove) that when an actual direct insult or member detrimental to the forum has not been dealt with or investigated.. To make vague innuendo that there is a perception that x doesn't like y is little more than what every playground, virtual or reality, has.

[JJ Irani]

WHOA!! As usual, I'm late for the party...........but then I was in slumberland while you guys were partying it up!!

Now that I'm here.............tell me...............how may I help?

I love you all, guys ...............why the hell can't we just get along.............like we used to in the past?

Cheers - JJ