ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
18 May 2024, 01:31 AM | #61 |
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Well said
Was recently chatting on the phone with another multi-decade longtime enthusiast of horology and we agreed it seems to be this new 'entitled' sentiment, which Turned To 11 during the global Everything Bubble. Sure decades ago we all know getting a SS Daytona or certain ultra-high-end 'application' pieces from other brands could take time, if at all. That was normal and expected. Nowadays it seems like the newbies want it all, and they want it now. And if you don't understand they did something to earn it, or they need it for their social influencer status, don't you know who they are.... We live in interesting times. Be kind to these new Entitled Karen types, they are the future of... something. Just wish more of them started their own companies instead of whining about what they outright refuse to pay for at market pricing. n.jpg
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18 May 2024, 01:48 AM | #62 | |
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A great example for me was in 2020 when a South coast AD called me because I had enquired about Breiltings saying he had an OP silver dial just arrive and would I like to trying it on with a view to buy .. So I drove down there that weekend and tried it on , along with an Omega AT and another couple of watches including a Breitling Premier. I bought none of them. He did have a DJ in a colour way I didn't fancy but I tried that on and decided to wait for a DJ sometime rather than buy the AT,OP etc etc ... All the watches I tried on that day were very nice , but the OP was no more "special" that any other and the deal breaker for me was the bracelet taper which I found rather feminine. Never did get round to getting the DJ, but that's a watch certainly on my radar for a future purchase. If stock rolls back into stores then I will almost certainly buy one. But not because its "premium" amongst its peers, its just a hell of nice watch. |
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18 May 2024, 02:03 AM | #63 |
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The problem isn’t with Rolex, it is with their ADs.
I don't agree that Rolex has a problem with ADs.
Product is in high demand. Price is too low. Place is flexible (but could improve). Promotion is superb. The fix for Price is to shift to a Lobster model: MP That ends the secondary market arb without draconian steps. Happy? But your 116500 will still cost you $34K in hot markets. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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18 May 2024, 02:16 AM | #64 |
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There is nothing any of us who want to buy a brand new Rolex can do to change the situation. There does seem to be some improvement lately, but it’s slow. Personally, I don’t mind waiting for what I want. The delayed gratification makes the experience that much more special. I’m expecting a call in the near future. I look forward to more wine and chocolates when I pick it up. (poor Brian )
Kat Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
18 May 2024, 02:50 AM | #65 |
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Padi, partially disagree, the problem is not at the AD, the problem is the grey market. If people would stop lining the pockets of the grey dealers who sell over MSRP, then we could get normalcy. I for one will not pay over msrp for a watch, that is my decision, people who do have the right to spend their money as they wish.
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18 May 2024, 03:05 AM | #66 |
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There is nothing wrong and this is nothing new. People loved the watch market when posting which secondary dealer or AD offered the biggest discounts.
It is not just "entitled newbies". People of all stages of watch collecting, many on this forum, happily pay above MSRP to get what they want right now. I don't think that is entitlement. That is simply capitalism. People love blaming flippers but they are only able to flip for profit because people pay over MSRP. If magically everyone stopped paying over MSRP, prices would drop like a rock on the secondary market. If you want to "blame" someone, blame anyone that pays over MSRP, not flippers, not Rolex, not the ADs, and not the secondary market. A watch is only worth what people are willing to pay. Rolex AND ADs are doing what they can to elevate the brand so that their watches never go back to sitting in display cases having to be sold at a discount. The secondary market is working to make as much profit as possible. The secondary market is a huge player in how popular Rolex watches (and other brands) have become. Rolex could severely hamper the secondary market if it wanted to but it will not. It knows it needs it as it is an integral part of market. |
18 May 2024, 03:06 AM | #67 |
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I don’t see the problem. It is a discretionary purchase. Some are willing to pay market price and some manipulation of supply occurs through flippers.
But at the end of the day, it tends to equalize (to market price). People choose different paths to ownership. There are alternatives out there - slightly below and slightly above. Plenty of alternatives = choice. |
18 May 2024, 03:07 AM | #68 | |
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I enjoy wearing the Rolex I own but they’re just watches. I have asked for a Celebration dial OP41 but if my AD doesn’t come through the sun will still rise. There is no watch I will pay a premium for, if the AD says no I don’t need it. |
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18 May 2024, 03:10 AM | #69 | |
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Yeah, I agree. The breadth of the grey market always seems exaggerated on TRF to me. People see watches available on the internet that they can’t get at an AD, and then they want to blow up Rolex’s distribution model because of it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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18 May 2024, 03:20 AM | #70 | |
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I assume you are being allocated references in (for the most part) less desirable sizes (such as your amazing Wimbledon). Something tells me you would have less success and perhaps a slightly more malleable opinion if the watch you were waiting for was a 126710, 126503 or 226570 for your husband. All that said.. Nice post OP, you started a good conversation with well thought out and articulate ideas. My only beef with Rolex is I really feel they could end "bulk bundled sales" to known secondary dealers overnight if they wanted. I've heard stories about the AD on Cancun selling heaps of references to the greys. Rolex is reticent because the discount AD's give to the grays is under the table, whereas a "known" discount to a point of sale customer has the potential to quell the hype. |
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18 May 2024, 04:31 AM | #71 |
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Actually agree with the sentiment that the problem is with Rolex clientele.
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18 May 2024, 04:46 AM | #72 | |
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126610LV//116508 Daytona YG Black/Champagne 116655 YM40 Everose Oysterflex//126622 YM40 Blue//126600 SD43 126710BLNR//126711CHNR 126334 DJ41 Rhodium/Diamonds//126331 DJ41 TT Wimbledon 124300 OP41 Green//126334 DJ41Mint Green |
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18 May 2024, 05:44 AM | #73 |
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I have to agree with the OP. My AD experience was this:
I very much wanted a black dial Explorer II. I went to my AD and talked to a sales associate about it and my general interest in watches -- talked about some other brands I had, why I liked the Exp. II, etc. I told him I completely understood that demand is high and that I'm patient and will wait until a black dial Explorer II becomes available because that's the watch for me. I checked back every few months. Let him know (the same person every time) I was still interested in that piece, chatted a bit (didn't keep him from other customers) and looked around the store a bit. I feel I was respectful of his time while maintaining my interest in this piece. Each time, I was directed toward Tudors. I would look, try a few on, said they're nice (and genuinely liked them), but reiterated that I really had my heart set on a black dial Exp. II. This went on for 3 years. Every time I was told how scarce they are -- again, I get it -- but that he'd get one for me. And on several occasions they had a display only piece. So they were getting some in and moving them through the store. Still no black dial Exp. II for me. No call. And now I've just given up. I haven't gone back. I'm interested in the new Tudor BB Burgundy but refuse to give him my business. In 3 years, they absolutely did get some black dial Explorer IIs in stock. I'm certain of it. And I'm not even offended if they prioritized preferred clients sometimes. After all, they're trying to maximize profit. But I feel like my turn should have come around in 3 years. It's not like I asked for a Daytona, Pepsi, etc. What's clear from my experience is that you can do all the "right things" with an AD yet some simply aren't going to sell you a Rolex unless you spend with them first. I think that's unfortunate for customers who really just want a certain Rolex but don't want to, or have the means to, but a bunch of watches/jewelry they don't want to be able to get the watch they have their heart set on. The whole experience is discouraging and off putting. |
18 May 2024, 05:59 AM | #74 | |
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Rolex is actively looking to improve supply chain, hence boutiques. In order to prolong this success, they'll need to better control supply chain, IMO. I actually agree with you; I think the AD experience will negatively impact the brand long term. Exclusivity will only work for as long as it'll work. A mere 7 years ago one could've bought any Rolex they wanted from an AD. Heck, even a 5711 Nautilus (which I was offered as recent as 2017 with 5% off). We are in uncharted territory. Will the next generation of accumulators actually enjoy this treatment? Who knows. Also, the whole premise of wanting more Rolex watches is also rather new. You've been a long-time patron/supporter of TRF; remember all of the single-Rolex owners from ~10 years ago? Accumulation is new, where in the past having one single Rolex was the norm. Long winded way of saying I also think the brand is being negatively impacted by the sales process, just have to give it time. |
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18 May 2024, 06:00 AM | #75 | |
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18 May 2024, 06:04 AM | #76 |
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She is a beauty and worth not waiting.
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18 May 2024, 06:16 AM | #77 | |
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18 May 2024, 06:25 AM | #78 | |
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Seriously though, agree 100%. If you can’t get something then don’t. |
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18 May 2024, 06:38 AM | #79 | |
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Of course there are also single watch owners. They still exist today and most don’t bother participating on watch related social media |
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18 May 2024, 06:48 AM | #80 |
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BTW as to the rarity of Rolex in the plane in 1st class now, couple in front of me the lady has an older rose gold Daytona and the guy has a 16710 Pepsi bezel, I have my DD 40 Onyx. Wife brought her Santos otherwise we’d have two straight rows on this side full of them. Not that rare.
More rare the guy in the row across from me has an aftermarket iced out Santos. |
18 May 2024, 07:11 AM | #81 |
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I have had a very pleasant experience with my local AD but still no watch and if they don’t come through how could I spend more monies with them in the future. This for me is not ideal I need jewelry for my wife and daughter also I want more watches. Really seems a horrible business model all around yet here i am on an Internet forum lol. I was told 6 weeks to 6 years and that I had an appropriate spend history for said watch. Ok I waited 13 months for my exp II to get the spa treatment in Geneva i can do it. Here we are 14 months after my request and “we hope to sell you this watch very soon”. I have been in five times since request and taken another rolex to them for a service. It’s disheartening my time is valuable. The AD near my wife’s parents in Florida told me simply 12-14 months. This all is so crazy as i am asking to spend over 12k and more in the future….i don't think i will ever feel like my AD is looking out for me the way some on here ruminate about. The problem is open market value being more than retail. Fun fact Chevy makes less than 840,000 trucks a year so called scarcity is not real.
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18 May 2024, 07:19 AM | #82 | |
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There are clearly more people who want to buy the watches than there are watches to go around. How should they allocate the watches? How do you know the watches that came in went to someone who had been waiting longer than you? Or had been a customer longer? The issue with the current market is that somebody simply isn’t getting a watch. It’s unclear why so many think that person should be somebody else and not them. |
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18 May 2024, 08:36 AM | #83 | |
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100% agree. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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18 May 2024, 08:09 PM | #84 |
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When I picked up my TT CHNR there were a couple nearby buying a pair of DJs, someone was having their BLNR bagged up, and later that afternoon, according to the SA someone was coming in to pick up their Sky Dweller. As I walked out, stopping to chat with a couple of staff members, I stood near a bloke who was complaining loudly to another SA about not being able to buy a Daytona. Four happy customers, a fifth on their way in. One disgruntled punter making it loudly know he was not happy. Just thought I'd mention that for a bit of balance.
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18 May 2024, 08:13 PM | #85 | |
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19 May 2024, 12:32 AM | #86 |
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I personally don’t see a problem with Rolex or Rolex AD.
I been collecting for years and never bought a watch I didn’t want. Never been to my AD and they forced me to buy a watch. I don’t own any gold watches because I don’t like them, and I won’t buy it because my AD asked me to do so. I love the idea of waiting for my watch for a year or two and I think it just makes the watch all more special when I get it. I love to visit the AD and say hi and talk watches and I been lucky to have an amazing AD near me with a great sales staff. They have never asked me to buy a watch I don’t want. I bet if Rolex had a Daytona for us to pick on same day 90% of people who complain here would walk away and won’t buy it. Enjoy the watch and buy what you like and if you wait a bit for you to get it so be it and treat your AD fair and they will do the same. |
19 May 2024, 12:48 AM | #87 | |
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19 May 2024, 06:49 AM | #88 |
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The problem isn’t with Rolex, it is with their ADs.
I agree with the OP, mostly. I’ll add that Rolex treats their legacy ADs poorly. My AD with whom I had a relationship lost their AD status because they wouldn’t or couldn’t build a new store. They’d been selling Rolex for 70 years. Rolex is not as hands off as people claim. They don’t just send the watches to the AD and say goodbye. They’re involved in every aspect of what happens to that watch after it gets to the AD, and they very much want to control how their brand is perceived. I’d argue that Rolex is complicit with and probably very happy with the current situation.
The few times I’ve visited an AD recently have been unpleasant. The current generation of SAs seem aloof and disinterested. They think they’re selling a Patek, and I’m pretty sure Rolex wants the world to believe they make a Patek-quality watch. But they don’t and we all know it. They’re a hype machine, and they make a better than average watch. I’m fortunate now because Rolex no longer makes a watch that I really want. I have no plans to build a new relationship with another AD. I still admire the brand, but my focus is on the discontinued references. Good luck to all. I hope you find a decent SA and I hope you don’t have to play too many games. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
19 May 2024, 08:53 AM | #89 | |
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19 May 2024, 08:56 AM | #90 |
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My AD offered me an Airking and I declined. I'm pretty good on watches right now. They know I want a Milgauss if they release a new one and I like it. I'll probably get one of those pretty quickly. I'm mostly looking at vintage these days. I do like MOP dials though..
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