How many people can fit on the summit of Everest?

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by GB-man

I find it hard to feel bad for those who perish engaging in such extreme activities. The risk is obvious. A percentage will die. I do feel for their loved ones though. A selfish endeavor imho but to each his own.

I agree with you to a point. The ones I have no sympathy for are those that feel because they can afford a “shortcut” they don’t have to prepare or train; but they want to say they “climbed Everest.” It used to be that summiting mount Everest took years of training and practice and experience, but now, it appears, if you have the money someone will practically carry you there. And what was that 62 year old man doing up there? I am in very good shape for being in my mid 50s, I hike in the mountains (5,000 feet as opposed to 25,000 feet) a great deal, last summer I did 16 miles in one day and the goal is 20 when I recover from my surgery. But the point is: I KNOW MY LIMITATIONS!!!

[Rock]

As the "Travel Obsession" has taken over the minds of our Western culture, I find that the most common conversational topic is "Where I've been and how many times I've been there". I rarely attend a party where one or more people don't want to bore the crap out of me about their travels.
I think we have now moved to the next stage where it is no longer sufficient to have been to all the regular places and you need to be able to 'up the ante' by having been somewhere that others haven't. Hence "adventure holidays".
Naturally a specialist industry has developed around this.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I agree with you to a point. The ones I have no sympathy for are those that feel because they can afford a “shortcut” they don’t have to prepare or train; but they want to say they “climbed Everest.” It used to be that summiting mount Everest took years of training and practice and experience, but now, it appears, if you have the money someone will practically carry you there. And what was that 62 year old man doing up there? I am in very good shape for being in my mid 50s, I hike in the mountains (5,000 feet as opposed to 25,000 feet) a great deal, last summer I did 16 miles in one day and the goal is 20 when I recover from my surgery. But the point is: I KNOW MY LIMITATIONS!!!

Sorry I disagree. I don't see how anyone can not hold people who are even more experienced at fault just as much if not more in this case. The line at the summit does not only consist of novices but experienced climbers as well. These experienced climbers are the people that should know better. I'm not blaming them for not being prepared but they are going into this willingly when they should be able to tell when there is a greater potential for risk.

None of those people who are waiting in line are thinking with either a clear head or of anyone but themselves.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Sorry I disagree. I don't see how anyone can not hold people who are even more experienced at fault just as much if not more in this case. The line at the summit does not only consist of novices but experienced climbers as well. These experienced climbers are the people that should know better. I'm not blaming them for not being prepared but they are going into this willingly when they should be able to tell when there is a greater potential for risk.

None of those people who are waiting in line are thinking with either a clear head or of anyone but themselves.

True, you make a good point that the people that are experienced should know better. I would submit (have no data to back this up, but it makes sense) that the majority of those who died were novices, shouldn’t have been up there to begin with. I have seen with my own eyes that sometimes people with money think they don’t have to train as hard, or prepare as much, kind of like they could pay someone to do it for them. I am not up there, but that’s kind of what it seems like to me. It’s a bad situation no matter what the reasons; I truly hope something is done to make it a more sensible and safe evolution.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

True, you make a good point that the people that are experienced should know better. I would submit (have no data to back this up, but it makes sense) that the majority of those who died were novices, shouldn’t have been up there to begin with. I have seen with my own eyes that sometimes people with money think they don’t have to train as hard, or prepare as much, kind of like they could pay someone to do it for them. I am not up there, but that’s kind of what it seems like to me. It’s a bad situation no matter what the reasons; I truly hope something is done to make it a more sensible and safe evolution.

Sounds to me there is plenty of stupidity to go around. No way I would ever put myself in such a position especially after seeing that long line waiting as my oxygen slowly but surely getting used. I'm fortunate not to even have that dream to put myself in such a stupid idiotic position in the first place.

So far every story I have heard of the poor climbers who have decided to make the climb regardless of all the tragedy and stupidity all of them have talked about their drive to make that climb and succeeded cannot be dissuaded no matter how many dead climbers they come across. Mostly they just talk about their drive and desire to succeed. No wonder you have such a stupid situation nobody is being intelligent or using their head. I have a hard time feeling sorry for those who recognize a problem but decide to do nothing about it when they have the opportunity to turn back.

Frankly at only 11 deaths so far with the average of 5 per year it just doesn't sound that bad to me based on all of the potential for real tragic circumstances that actually exists. Yeah there's plenty of blame to go around but all of these idiots who have decided to fit themselves into a very small window of good weather on a very small sized plateau they know only so few can possibly fit into. Most of them talk about preparing for the risk and potentially not coming back to make this experience occur from the moment they decided to make this trip. What they forget to mention is that once they made the trip to get there they also decided to continue regardless even when the window became smaller but the amount of people did not. They see it they recognize it but yet their drive to move on and realize that dream cannot be deterred. Their drive to succeed is so strong they are willing to risk anything to do so. Well then it sounds to me your getting exactly what you've asked for. The endeavor your willing to risk your life for is an endeavor you just may very well not return from.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by dddrees

Sounds to me there is plenty of stupidity to go around. No way I would ever put myself in such a position especially after seeing that long line waiting as my oxygen slowly but surely getting used. I'm fortunate not to even have that dream to put myself in such a stupid idiotic position in the first place.

I agree, only regarding not wanting to do it in the first place. But with all due respect, I don’t think you understand what happens to your mind and body. Much like with being intoxicated, the first thing to go is your judgement. If you’re no longer thinking rationally, your decisions at that point are not “stupid”.....but rather, your cognitive ability is impaired. Only after I experienced it, did I say.....I’m not doing that again (albeit a lower peak).

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by pickettt

I agree, only regarding not wanting to do it in the first place. But with all due respect, I don’t think you understand what happens to your mind and body. Much like with being intoxicated, the first thing to go is your judgement. If you’re no longer thinking rationally, your decisions at that point are not “stupid”.....but rather, your cognitive ability is impaired. Only after I experienced it, did I say.....I’m not doing that again (albeit a lower peak).

I get it, believe me I get it. But that doesn't make it a good decision and nor does that make it the right course of action one should be taking.


Stupidity and bad decisions have consequences. You choose poorly regardless of the reason and you and yours may very well suffer because of the choices you make.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by dddrees

I get it, believe me I get it. But that doesn't make it a good decision and nor does that make it the right course of action one should be taking.


Stupidity and bad decisions have consequences. You choose poorly regardless of the reason and you and yours may very well suffer because of the choices you make.

Of course. All I’m saying is that the ability to correct those actions DURING said actions, is limited.

[Porsche]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

66 years ago today, Sir Edmund Hillary and Tenzing Norgay became the first documented people to climb Mount Everest. I collect signed mountaineering books, and I have a copy of "The Ascent of Everest" by the team leader John Hunt. It's the official account of the expedition printed in November, 1953 and is autographed by Hillary. It's probably my favorite collectible book.

Hey Joey, that's some great memorabilia you have there...

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Of course. All I’m saying is that the ability to correct those actions DURING said actions, is limited.

I know and I understand why this typically gets in the way of peoples ability to make an intelligent decision. But that doesn't excuse the fact that they are making a poor choice.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by dddrees

I know and I understand why this typically gets in the way of peoples ability to make an intelligent decision.

Incidentally, it’s why I don’t drink. I refuse to wake up the next morning and rely on someone else to tell me what I did.

[dddrees]

Originally Posted by pickettt

Incidentally, it’s why I don’t drink. I refuse to wake up the next morning and rely on someone else to tell me what I did.

^Perfect example.


I did but that is but one of the reasons I don't anymore. In fact long ago when I was only 16 I actually worked in a bar. Never really came close to getting into real trouble. Had my fun but not the smartest thing to do. I made my choices and I suffered the consequences.

Whenever I make poor choices sometimes I got lucky but generally I recognize that is not the wisest thing to do. Not placing myself in a bad position to begin with generally works best.

[tudorbaja27]

Originally Posted by Rock

As the "Travel Obsession" has taken over the minds of our Western culture, I find that the most common conversational topic is "Where I've been and how many times I've been there". I rarely attend a party where one or more people don't want to bore the crap out of me about their travels.
I think we have now moved to the next stage where it is no longer sufficient to have been to all the regular places and you need to be able to 'up the ante' by having been somewhere that others haven't. Hence "adventure holidays".
Naturally a specialist industry has developed around this.

Brilliant.

[Brenngun]

Originally Posted by pickettt

I agree, only regarding not wanting to do it in the first place. But with all due respect, I don’t think you understand what happens to your mind and body. Much like with being intoxicated, the first thing to go is your judgement. If you’re no longer thinking rationally, your decisions at that point are not “stupid”.....but rather, your cognitive ability is impaired. Only after I experienced it, did I say.....I’m not doing that again (albeit a lower peak).

I've also experienced the effects of hypoxemia on more than one occasion. Your right it will quickly impair your cognitive skills leading to poor decision making however when your sucking on a bottle of oxygen your thinking quite clearly.

If while you're well oxygenated you still decide to get into that line without enough oxygen to get up and then more importantly down then your a dumb ass. Period. No excuses. Thinning the herd.

[77T]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

And what was that 62 year old man doing up there? I am in very good shape for being in my mid 50s, I hike in the mountains (5,000 feet as opposed to 25,000 feet) a great deal, last summer I did 16 miles in one day and the goal is 20 when I recover from my surgery. But the point is: I KNOW MY LIMITATIONS!!!

Your bias is showing there, Paul, not ranting at you but sharing solely in the spirit of communication.

That climber was better qualified than most in regards to mountain climbing.


Chris Kulish had just turned 62 in April. He wasn’t a newb - nor was he in the traffic jam picture everyone has seen.

He and his team were well-versed - Chris had already summited the 6 tallest peaks on 6 different continents prior to summiting Everest (yes, he joined the 7Summit Club that very day).

He went up with a very small group in nearly ideal weather after the crowds of the prior week had cleared Everest. He saw his last sunrise from the highest peak on Earth. Not a bad thing...

At that instant, he became a member of the “7Summit Club” having scaled the highest peak on each continent. He safely made it back down and was at camp when his heart gave out.

He had climbed a number of peaks in Colorado, the West and the world over. How could he have known that his number was up?

BTW, his mother is still living so he had every reason to believe he had years ahead on Earth.


I don’t post this to chide you or anyone else. But broad issues have affected this season and some people are drawing flawed conclusions about many of the victims. The media isn’t helping by frothing the stories - in fact many are helicoptering into Base Camp just to file breathless stories...


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[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by 77T

Your bias is showing there, Paul, not ranting at you but sharing solely in the spirit of communication.

That climber was better qualified than most in regards to mountain climbing.


Chris Kulish had just turned 62 in April. He wasn’t a newb - nor was he in the traffic jam picture everyone has seen.

He and his team were well-versed - Chris had already summited the 6 tallest peaks on 6 different continents prior to summiting Everest (yes, he joined the 7Summit Club that very day).

He went up with a very small group in nearly ideal weather after the crowds of the prior week had cleared Everest. He saw his last sunrise from the highest peak on Earth. Not a bad thing...

At that instant, he became a member of the “7Summit Club” having scaled the highest peak on each continent. He safely made it back down and was at camp when his heart gave out.

He had climbed a number of peaks in Colorado, the West and the world over. How could he have known that his number was up?

BTW, his mother is still living so he had every reason to believe he had years ahead on Earth.


I don’t post this to chide you or anyone else. But broad issues have affected this season and some people are drawing flawed conclusions about many of the victims. The media isn’t helping by frothing the stories - in fact many are helicoptering into Base Camp just to file breathless stories...


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Is it the same guy? I thought I read a completely different description; no experience, had the money and wanted to say he “climbed” Everest.

Now I’m on a mission to find that article.

[77T]

You may be thinking of another climber.

Here’s Chris’ story along with a 64 y.o. experienced Austrian climber who also died that same day.

https://m.cnn.com/en/article/h_de793...ef184556833b89


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[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by 77T

You may be thinking of another climber.

Here’s Chris’ story along with a 64 y.o. experienced Austrian climber who also died that same day.

https://m.cnn.com/en/article/h_de793...ef184556833b89


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Yeah, I think you’re right.

[77T]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Yeah, I think you’re right.

No worries - the media has crossed-up many hot topics with the untold real stories of the people who passed away.


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[GB-man]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

I agree with you to a point. The ones I have no sympathy for are those that feel because they can afford a “shortcut” they don’t have to prepare or train; but they want to say they “climbed Everest.” It used to be that summiting mount Everest took years of training and practice and experience, but now, it appears, if you have the money someone will practically carry you there. And what was that 62 year old man doing up there? I am in very good shape for being in my mid 50s, I hike in the mountains (5,000 feet as opposed to 25,000 feet) a great deal, last summer I did 16 miles in one day and the goal is 20 when I recover from my surgery. But the point is: I KNOW MY LIMITATIONS!!!

Fair point Paul

[ruffa]

Cool story; My cousin Slav Tokarev summited but was afraid to wear his Sub because it would “freeze” ...he is no longer my cousin.

[tadbart]

I struggle at 14,000 feet. Honestly, anything between 10k-14k is rough. I can't imagine doubling that. 29k would be a death sentence for me. I'm old, and fat, and know my limitations.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by tadbart

I struggle at 14,000 feet. Honestly, anything between 10k-14k is rough. I can't imagine doubling that. 29k would be a death sentence for me. I'm old, and fat, and know my limitations.

Exactly! I like to challenge myself but am smart about my limitations too. I’m old as well, so even though I want to push and make the 15 (or next year my goal is 20) mile hike I train, work up to it, but most importantly know what I am capable of and am not foolhardy; that’s how people end up hurt or worse.

From what I read, it appears (I was never there, so this is just my interpretation of some articles) at least some of the deceased had no or limited experience, but they had money. Buy paying to get close, and having a Sherpa basically carry them to the summit, they can say they “climbed” Everest, when they had no business subjecting themselves to that kind of danger without the proper training and experience. What is that old saying? More money then brains

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Exactly! I like to challenge myself but am smart about my limitations too. I’m old as well, so even though I want to push and make the 15 (or next year my goal is 20) mile hike I train, work up to it, but most importantly know what I am capable of and am not foolhardy; that’s how people end up hurt or worse.

From what I read, it appears (I was never there, so this is just my interpretation of some articles) at least some of the deceased had no or limited experience, but they had money. Buy paying to get close, and having a Sherpa basically carry them to the summit, they can say they “climbed” Everest, when they had no business subjecting themselves to that kind of danger without the proper training and experience. What is that old saying? More money then brains

I think you’re sensationalizing this a bit too much. No one gets carried, for example.

People subject themselves to danger for fun all the time. I took up rodeo bull riding at age 47. At one event the next oldest guy was 19. I had a blast. It was well worth all the scars I earned.

If people limited themselves to the mundane existence you seem to be promoting the world would be full of really dull people. There’s no need to chastise people for wanting to do extreme sports. There is a place for that in our society. The issues here are resource management and logistics, not people paying a lot to do something dangerous.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I think you’re sensationalizing this a bit too much. No one gets carried, for example.

People subject themselves to danger for fun all the time. I took up rodeo bull riding at age 47. At one event the next oldest guy was 19. I had a blast. It was well worth all the scars I earned.

If people limited themselves to the mundane existence you seem to be promoting the world would be full of really dull people. There’s no need to chastise people for wanting to do extreme sports. There is a place for that in our society. The issues here are resource management and logistics, not people paying a lot to do something dangerous.

I support adventure and new experiences, and congrats by the way on bull riding. But you are smart enough to take training, practice, and I am sure you didn’t take the meanest bull your first or second ride. That’s what I am talking about. If someone at any age wants to take up mountain climbing more power to them, but do it the right way. Train, study, start small and work up your ability. From what I interpreted, some of the deceased skipped that part and wanted to go right to the top, literally. That’s the issue. If you want to take up Scuba diving you start shallow, you don’t go for the Titanic when you are not experienced and trained enough.

Oh, and I know no one is actually carried, I was exaggerating, but I did a little research. If you want to pay exorbitant fees, you will be flown to base camp 1, or 2, or whatever it’s called. Then escorted, with the sherpas carrying all the supplies to the summit. And they appear to offer these to anyone that has the money, regardless of experience level.

[joeychitwood]

There are many instances of Sherpas "short-roping" clients up and down the mountain. Literally tied together by a very short rope, dragging the exhausted novice climber up and restraining them on the way down, preventing them from sliding off the hill.

[77T]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

From what I read, it appears (I was never there, so this is just my interpretation of some articles) at least some of the deceased had no or limited experience, but they had money. Buy paying to get close, and having a Sherpa basically carry them to the summit, they can say they “climbed” Everest, when they had no business subjecting themselves to that kind of danger without the proper training and experience. What is that old saying? More money then brains

Sorry to do this again, Paul...but facts are not on your side.

So here is each climbers obit summary that I could find, none were inexperienced climbers. I’ll look for the one missing name in a bit.

Like before, not a rant aimed at you - just sharing in the spirit of communication.

Séamus Lawless, 39
Mr. Lawless died after falling about 1,600 feet from the balcony area of the mountain. He was an experienced climber who had reached the summit before. His expedition leader told The Times of London that Mr. Lawless was the victim of a “freak accident” after he unclipped himself from his safety ropes.

Ravi Thakar, 28
Mr. Thakar, an experienced Indian climber, died on May 17 while in his sleep in his tent on the mountain’s highest camp site. Mr. Thakar successfully reached the summit but began experiencing issues during his descent.

Anjali Kulkarni, 54
Ms. Kulkarni was experienced and scaled the peak with her husband, Sharad Kulkarni. She died from “energy loss” on her way back to Camp 4. A family friend, Ameet Singh, told the paper that the couple had climbed other mountains together, including Kilimanjaro.

Nihal Bagwan, 27
Mr. Bagwan suffered from acute dehydration and exhaustion on his way down from the summit on May 23. It was his second attempt to climb Everest after falling short five years ago. He was experienced.

Kalpana Das, 50
Ms. Das had scaled Everest before, but did not survive her second summit. She became ill and died on her way down, near the balcony area. She was experienced with attempts to climb the mountain in 2004 and 2006, and success in 2008.

Ernst Landgraf, 64
Mr. Landgraf died on his way down from the summit. Mr. Landgraf was an experienced mountain climber who was in good physical shape. His trip up Everest had been his final climb of the seven summits.

Kevin Hynes, 56
Mr. Hynes died in his tent at an elevation of about 23,000 feet. He had trekked to a higher altitude a day earlier, but decided to turn back. He had previously reached the summit of Everest last year.

Dhruba Bista, 32
Mr. Bista, a Nepali climbing guide, fell while trekking down the mountain. He and other guides often climbed to steep heights carrying heavy loads for their clients. He was a good guide, very careful, always clipping into lines.

Robin Haynes Fisher, 44
Mr. Fisher, an experienced British climber, died 45 minutes after reaching the summit. He suddenly collapsed about 500’ below the summit.

Christopher John Kulish, 62
Mr. Kulish had returned to South Col after reaching the summit, his seventh and final climb in his seven summits. He was a very experienced climber.

Edits:

Donald Cash, 54
Mr. Cash, age 54, accomplished his dream of joining the 7 Summits Club by summiting his final mountain - Mount Everest. He suffered altitude sickness while helping a guide with a a stricken climber.



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[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by 77T

Sorry to do this again, Paul...but facts are not on your side.

So here is each climbers obit summary that I could find, none were inexperienced climbers. I’ll look for the one missing name in a bit.

Like before, not a rant aimed at you - just sharing in the spirit of communication.

Séamus Lawless, 39
Mr. Lawless died after falling about 1,600 feet from the balcony area of the mountain. He was an experienced climber who had reached the summit before. His expedition leader told The Times of London that Mr. Lawless was the victim of a “freak accident” after he unclipped himself from his safety ropes.

Ravi Thakar, 28
Mr. Thakar, an experienced Indian climber, died on May 17 while in his sleep in his tent on the mountain’s highest camp site. Mr. Thakar successfully reached the summit but began experiencing issues during his descent.

Anjali Kulkarni, 54
Ms. Kulkarni was experienced and scaled the peak with her husband, Sharad Kulkarni. She died from “energy loss” on her way back to Camp 4. A family friend, Ameet Singh, told the paper that the couple had climbed other mountains together, including Kilimanjaro.

Nihal Bagwan, 27
Mr. Bagwan suffered from acute dehydration and exhaustion on his way down from the summit on May 23. It was his second attempt to climb Everest after falling short five years ago. He was experienced.

Kalpana Das, 50
Ms. Das had scaled Everest before, but did not survive her second summit. She became ill and died on her way down, near the balcony area. She was experienced with attempts to climb the mountain in 2004 and 2006, and success in 2008.

Ernst Landgraf, 64
Mr. Landgraf died on his way down from the summit. Mr. Landgraf was an experienced mountain climber who was in good physical shape. His trip up Everest had been his final climb of the seven summits.

Kevin Hynes, 56
Mr. Hynes died in his tent at an elevation of about 23,000 feet. He had trekked to a higher altitude a day earlier, but decided to turn back. He had previously reached the summit of Everest last year.

Dhruba Bista, 32
Mr. Bista, a Nepali climbing guide, fell while trekking down the mountain. He and other guides often climbed to steep heights carrying heavy loads for their clients. He was a good guide, very careful, always clipping into lines.

Robin Haynes Fisher, 44
Mr. Fisher, an experienced British climber, died 45 minutes after reaching the summit. He suddenly collapsed about 500’ below the summit.

Christopher John Kulish, 62
Mr. Kulish had returned to South Col after reaching the summit, his seventh and final climb in his seven summits. He was a very experienced climber.

Edits:

Donald Cash, 54
Mr. Cash, age 54, accomplished his dream of joining the 7 Summits Club by summiting his final mountain - Mount Everest. He suffered altitude sickness while helping a guide with a a stricken climber.



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That is good, where did you get all this info? I really did search but nothing this complete.

[77T]

Everything but Cash’s obit was compiled from NYT reports. They sourced many reports.

Cash’s came from his hometown paper.


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[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by 77T

Everything but Cash’s obit was compiled from NYT reports. They sourced many reports.

Cash’s came from his hometown paper.


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... Oh.

If you ever want to start a profession as a researcher I think you would do great