Rolex giving up SS sport watch market to other manufactures such as Omega,...?

[jr66999]

Not sure if Rolex is losing customers to other brands. However, I wore a gmt master ii c for many years now wear a seamaster pro 300m c (present from my wife). Can’t tell a bit of difference from a quality perspective. They’re different for sure, but Omega imho is just as good as Rolex.

[Goin2drt]

Yes they are losing sales to other brands. When you just can't get what you want, people will make the next choice. Many of those are not Rolex.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by oldman2005

Many even think the new Omega Seamaster is a better watch than the Submariner:

Flavor of the month, imo. I suspect the new Seamaster will not age well. Several of its design elements are garish, obvious, and appear intended to grab attention. That's not a recipe for enduring appeal. The newest Seamaster is also the third design of the model since the SS SubC Date hit the market, and it will likely be redesigned several times over before the Sub gets any appreciable aesthetic updates. That pace of change leads to a sense of ephemera in Omega's designs, and longevity in Rolex's.

To your main point, the relative scarcity of Rolex SS sports models is because so many people want them. Omegas still sell for discounts. Rolex may not be optimizing the demand curve, but they are doing a brilliant job of maintaining it.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by MariettaMike

Breitling? Lets not get crazy!? Really? What’s wrong with Breitling watch’s?

Nothing, if you find a model you like, but the brand nearly committed suicide with some disastrous design choices in the last decade. Those choices diluted brand DNA and confused and alienated a lot of its core customer base. The company is now under new leadership that is working hard to undo the damage, but it remains to be seen how that plays out.

[jps3b]

Originally Posted by dtwer

Lovely watches that you have.



I would say the 2500 era wave dial Seamaster is the last of the legendary Seamaster. The new “clones” are just that, the clones. The new wave dial fails to recreate the classic style.

Thank you for the kind words Sir. Have a great Sunday

[Art 1]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Nothing, if you find a model you like, but the brand nearly committed suicide with some disastrous design choices in the last decade. Those choices diluted brand DNA and confused and alienated a lot of its core customer base. The company is now under new leadership that is working hard to undo the damage, but it remains to be seen how that plays out.

I’m hoping for Breitling to get back on their feet again. The Superocean was a great watch back in around 2000, actually at the time the bracelet was better than the one Rolex used on the Sub. They now sell for twice of what MSRP was at the time. The Chronomat was a nice watch. Especially the all gold ones. Then they changed and came out with hideous huge watches. It was ashame to see this once proud and historic company change like they did. I hope it’s not too late.

[Paul_I]

Originally Posted by Late

You are correct; Rolex' business model is more successful than yours.
But... Rolex is that much better than Omega. Or at least much better. The materials are higher, the specifications tighter. But even so...
People are buying more than the quality. The newest Hyundia may be at BMW levels of performance, quality and finish at a lower price, but people still lust after the pedigree and the roundel, because they imply the track record and history.
What separates an Omega from a Grand Seiko in your mind?

You can say what you want about marketing and resale but this is baloney.

[49ers101hitters]

Originally Posted by Rocketman39

You either want a Rolex or you don't. In 1965 I went looking for an Omega. All they had was a Rolex. 50 years later, I'm still Happy with my Sub.

Pic? :D

[ajas]

No way

Sent from my SM-N935F using Tapatalk

[Late]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Nothing, if you find a model you like, but the brand nearly committed suicide with some disastrous design choices in the last decade. Those choices diluted brand DNA and confused and alienated a lot of its core customer base. The company is now under new leadership that is working hard to undo the damage, but it remains to be seen how that plays out.

Does nobody here do the pre-class reading? Breitling didn't even have their own movement until 2013! ETA and Valjous. It's not a real brand. Good grief, folks, is the heart of a watch the case-and-dial, or is it the timekeeping mechanicals?

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Late

Does nobody here do the pre-class reading? Breitling didn't even have their own movement until 2013! ETA and Valjous. It's not a real brand. Good grief, folks, is the heart of a watch the case-and-dial, or is it the timekeeping mechanicals?

What’s wrong with ETA movements? Might want to do some historical research on ETA before answering.

[NYG1121]

Patek and AP demand is at an all time high and increasing. Rolex following similar model which only maintains their status. Adding other “lesser” brands in turn only helps rolex in long run because will want it even more.

[Paul_I]

Originally Posted by mystro

what’s wrong with eta movements? Might want to do some historical research on eta before answering.

+1

[jr66999]

Originally Posted by Late

Does nobody here do the pre-class reading? Breitling didn't even have their own movement until 2013! ETA and Valjous. It's not a real brand. Good grief, folks, is the heart of a watch the case-and-dial, or is it the timekeeping mechanicals?

When did the Daytona become a real watch?

[Hogtown Fatty]

Of course all the guys able to any ss sport Rolex @ their AD after spending 100's of g's to establish themselves will say "no", but I'd hazard to say that the lions share of prospective Rolex buyers aren't in this position and are largely one-off buyers (maybe will add a couple over their lifetime). So in that sense some of these replies are quite skewed. Not everyone looking to get a Rolex is a collector, nor looking to repeatedly spend $10k+ on a watch. Rolex is most definitely losing heaps of sales by constricting supply. Yeah, all the ss sport watches being made are being sold no problem so no lost sales in that regard, but so many more could be made and sold... maybe that's when interest would dwindle though. Currently such a huge portion is going to greys or flippers looking to make a quick buck... instead of going to folks with genuine interests. But that's a free market for you... The dealers save these artificially hyped models for their best customers. The prospect of having to spend $100k+ to establish yourself and "earn the privilege" to buy a $10k ss watch seems hilariously silly to me, but such is the current situation. This is why I gave up on trying to get an ss after three years and have decided to go the PM route- will be buying in the next month or two. Maybe I've fallen square into Rolexes plan, pushing people into pm $ territory as a result of their fabricated scarcity. No doubt I'd rather add a few g's more and get into a pm than pay resale on a mere ss- no doubt a lucrative strategy for Rolex and AD's, but it's made me quite bitter towards the brand.

[Ichiran]

I have spent a lot more time at the Grand Seiko/Seiko boutiques, and many of the models are available for trying. Their sales executives are helpful and happy to chat with you whether you are buying a Seiko-5 or platinum GS. Do consider these pieces from Japan, as they are very good watches at the respective price ranges.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Late

Does nobody here do the pre-class reading? Breitling didn't even have their own movement until 2013!

False. Breitling debuted the in-house B01 chrongraph movement in 2009, which had been in development since 2004. But I do agree with you about the need to read before posting. That's good advice.

[zion_rasta]

The new SMP is better than a current sub with a 3135 movement. No questions about it.

Ceramic dial
15,000 gauss
Metas cert movement
Case dimensions wear better

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by zion_rasta

The new SMP is better than a current sub with a 3135 movement. No questions about it.

I disagree. If you have questions, please see post #93.

[JR16]

Originally Posted by Late

Does nobody here do the pre-class reading? Breitling didn't even have their own movement until 2013! ETA and Valjous. It's not a real brand. Good grief, folks, is the heart of a watch the case-and-dial, or is it the timekeeping mechanicals?

I’m guessing you didn’t ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Headhunter007]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Flavor of the month, imo. I suspect the new Seamaster will not age well. Several of its design elements are garish, obvious, and appear intended to grab attention. That's not a recipe for enduring appeal. The newest Seamaster is also the third design of the model since the SS SubC Date hit the market, and it will likely be redesigned several times over before the Sub gets any appreciable aesthetic updates. That pace of change leads to a sense of ephemera in Omega's designs, and longevity in Rolex's.

To your main point, the relative scarcity of Rolex SS sports models is because so many people want them. Omegas still sell for discounts. Rolex may not be optimizing the demand curve, but they are doing a brilliant job of maintaining it.

True

[codecow]

Originally Posted by MariettaMike

Breitling? Lets not get crazy!? Really? What’s wrong with Breitling watch’s?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You need to buy the right ones. Some of them seem cast looking to me when trying on, corners cut evident.

[DownTime]

Scarcity breeds demand, I think Rolex is doing fine.
I don't think anyone who wants a Rolex will be completely happy or satisfied settling for an Omega

[Tha Baron]

Originally Posted by Mystro

What’s wrong with ETA movements? Might want to do some historical research on ETA before answering.

Agreed... I like eta movements in older watches as they are cheaper to service and don’t have to go off to the mothership or someone with a parts account!

[Late]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

False. Breitling debuted the in-house B01 chrongraph movement in 2009, which had been in development since 2004. But I do agree with you about the need to read before posting. That's good advice.

Not much of a correction there; a few years. And only because they had to move away from ETA/Valjoux.

[Late]

Originally Posted by JR16

I’m guessing you didn’t ?

Wow! With the value of your reparte, I'm amazed you didn't simply, in an utterly trollish nature, write,

Originally Posted by JR16

Cite?

Glad to have you as a useful part of the conversation and thread.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by MR. STEEL

Rolex = Luxury Steel Sports watches
Everyone else = Sports watches

The Blancpain Fifty Fathoms, AP Royal Oak Diver and others would like to have a word with you. This is just in the Sub and DSSD class. Get real.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by Late

Not much of a correction there; a few years. And only because they had to move away from ETA/Valjoux.

They did not have to move away from ETA movements. In fact they still use them in many of their watches, both chrono and 3 hand.

[MTBer]

Originally Posted by dtwer

Lovely watches that you have.

I would say the 2500 era wave dial Seamaster is the last of the legendary Seamaster. The new “clones” are just that, the clones. The new wave dial fails to recreate the classic style.

I tend to agree. The classic 2531.80 was THE watch I grew up drooling over (admittedly due to the Bond connection at first), and I was more than happy with the technical and aesthetic updates on the 2220.80 that I was lucky to purchase back in 2008. I wasn't a fan of the first ceramic iteration that succeeded it, save for the upgrade to screwed links.

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Flavor of the month, imo. I suspect the new Seamaster will not age well. Several of its design elements are garish, obvious, and appear intended to grab attention. That's not a recipe for enduring appeal. The newest Seamaster is also the third design of the model since the SS SubC Date hit the market, and it will likely be redesigned several times over before the Sub gets any appreciable aesthetic updates. That pace of change leads to a sense of ephemera in Omega's designs, and longevity in Rolex's.

Spot on. I tried on the new two tone version today and am warming up to the new design changes if judging the watch based solely on its own merits, but from the perspective of it being a model that's intended as an evolution of the 2531/2220 era SMP's, it's just too much. To this particular model's credit, I think it's a good, slightly understated alternative to the much flashier 'Bluesy'.

Originally Posted by zion_rasta

The new SMP is better than a current sub with a 3135 movement. No questions about it.

Ceramic dial
15,000 gauss
Metas cert movement
Case dimensions wear better

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I disagree. If you have questions, please see post #93.

I'd argue the new SMP is in several ways arguably objectively better, exactly for the reasons stated. That said, objectivity is trailing aesthetics and brand recognition/perception, and IMO this won't change until Omega stops chasing the quick buck and plays the long game like Rolex.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Late

Not much of a correction there; a few years. And only because they had to move away from ETA/Valjoux.

The degree of correction isn't the point. The point is you lecture people about "pre-class reading," then demonstrate you can't be bothered to do it yourself. Is that irony lost on you?