I was betrayed after all with ”Kermit Flat 4”

[envuks]

Originally Posted by FinWatch

Both switched—I have not yet got the official report.

Absolutely right: I should have been aware that this way sellers can betray aswell...


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Very sorry to hear about that. I understand now. This is an unfortunate situation. My recommendation would be to try to return the watch to the seller as it was misrepresented. The value of a non-standard Rolex is signifcantly lower than one with original parts. I’d bet this example in question would be worth less than a 16610 without LV parts (ie the non standard Rolex parts drop the value from the original model).

Good luck with the solution here. Please keep us updated at it progresses.

[hitman23]

Originally Posted by RickR

Do these 16610LV watches get verified as a true LV during an RSC service?

I bought one last year. The warranty card states 16610LV. I think the later models were labeled LV.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by FinWatch

I think that you are very right:
Professionals here in Finland said to me before sending it to Switzerland that it is authentic flat4!!!


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It's quite possible your seller did not know the watch had been converted to a 16610LV.And one of the main factors now for the green inserts to be so expensive around $300 and return to Rolex only not even the independents can change them.Is down to those with 16610 subs and 16610 LV subs swapping the inserts from black to green and visa versa.

[00Seven]

Very interesting. Sorry about your misfortune. Did you pay with a credit card? If so, you might try involving them. Hopefully the retailer will honor their "mistake" and make it right.

[zjd168]

this is one of the main reasons why I never buy used watches of high demand. So many crooks make their living by hacking watches and/or cheating. It's their full time job.

OP, sorry to know that and hope you can get your money back

[RickR]

Originally Posted by hitman23

I bought one last year. The warranty card states 16610LV. I think the later models were labeled LV.

No, what I mean is if I have a 16610LV watch with a RSC service warranty card that also says its a 16610LV watch, does that mean they have verified during the service that the watch is a true LV?

[KBM]

Sorry to hear this happened. I hope they make it right.

[ALF61]

Originally Posted by 101031-28

Hi FinWatch, so very sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. I am from Italy and do not trust buying from anyone there, except an authorized dealer. Got scammed a few times too in the past, while living there, I was younger and too trusting. Don't blame yourself for what happened. Can you demand the seller to refund your purchase? I am assuming you have Rolex to confirm your watch is a regular 16610 and not the LV. Again I am very sorry this happened but I am not surprised. Italians have a reputation for doing whatever it takes to make a profit even if that means scamming an innocent person in the process

What a stupid generalization you make here. A whole country because of one bad transaction.

[datejust24]

Damn I’d be super pissed...What recourse do you have in this situation? Sorry to hear this...Be careful out there everyone..there are a lot of low integrity people selling high end watches that will absolutely take advantage of any situation that fattens their pockets..please share who the dealer was OP

[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by ALF61

What a stupid generalization you make here. A whole country because of one bad transaction.

People have got to stop being easily offended.
I think you missed his point. In this case he is Italian, it’s his culture, it’s his personal generalized assesment of certain people based on his life’s experiences.
I don’t think he said ALL Italians.

[ragsk]

Terrible. hope the OP resolves it.

This is why I am scared to buy preowned. I know its a sensible way to do it. I am keen as you save a lot of money but the focus has to be on the reputation of the seller.

[Likestheshiny]

Originally Posted by FinWatch

All the parts are genuine—that is the reason why professionals here in Finland gave me the information that it is 100% genuine.... But when sent to Rolex, Switzerland, they could track the serial number...

If it was such a good alteration that it fooled professionals, why are you assuming that the seller was intentionally trying to rip you off? What does the seller say about this?

[123Blueface]

Fooled experts, perhaps seller fooled as well but seller’s problem in this case.

[Swiss Mad!]

Originally Posted by Jason71

Link to the other thread on this topic? I don’t see how this could be.....there is no way that anyone other than Rolex SA could know the difference between a regular black sub and a true 16610LV. IMHO, this one should have it signified on the papers since it is allegedly an early model with a flat four.

If in-fact this is the case......there is absolutely no way I would pay the premium for a 16610LV unless it was signified on the papers/warranty

There are a few differences between a regular black 16610LN Sub and an LV.

It's not just a case of simply swapping the black bezel insert for a green one and passing it off as an anniversary model!

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[037]

Originally Posted by dmash

I thought T simply denotes a 'transition' case and it means there's no lug holes.

That's the generally accepted assumption since any 16610, 16600, 16710 and 16570 case without lug holes is marked 'T'. What it actually stands for remains, to my knowledge anyway, undocumented officially.

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by padi56

All LV watches are just normal 16610 subs only difference green bezel insert maxi dial and very slightly different hands.The first models had the flat 4 font on bezel insert, so did the normal 16610 and SD in same time period. Plus the flat four font has been used by Rolex several times over the past 50 plus years.In some countries there is no indication or markings on the watch or papers to indicate its a LV,the only indication on a plastic tag.Are you saying the watch in question had the dial hands and bezel insert changed to make it into a 16610LV?.

Do you have pictures of the hands and differences? What should I look at? Are the Kermit hands wider?

[Swiss Mad!]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Do you have pictures of the hands and differences?

Google it - there's loads of info out there on this subject

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[rootbeer7]

I sold a genuine watch only one last year. Prior to sale I communicated with buyer and we agreed that he would pay for a Rolex service. This way he got a service card and paperwork stating the LV part and confirmation of the serial number proving the flat 4 was period correct. Paying the extra was not a problem for peace of mind.
OP take comfort in the fact the bezel insert and hands are genuine and worth a good sum.
Perhaps a deal with the seller could prove fruitful.

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by Swiss Mad!

Google it - there's loads of info out there on this subject

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I did, they said they are bigger.

Difficult to see on pictures to be honest compared to actually holding them 1 on 1.

[mmmmp]

Originally Posted by jvd99

Buying anything of value sight unseen and from a stranger on the internet is an invitation to be scammed. Personally, I would never, ever, buy a collectible Rolex online, especially from another country that is notorious for trafficking counterfeit luxury products

Couldn't have said it better myself!

To OP - I feel for you brother. Nothing worse than looking forward to an exciting purchase and having a monkey wrench tossed into the works.

Hope this gets resolved ASAP.

Best,
Mark


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[exador]

Look where the watch originated...we can imagine where the parts swap took place...

I wouldn’t be so hard on the seller if even Rolex Finland were fooled. However given the evidence from Rolex Switzerland, they should reverse the deal.

[Jason71]

Originally Posted by Swiss Mad!

There are a few differences between a regular black 16610LN Sub and an LV.

It's not just a case of simply swapping the black bezel insert for a green one and passing it off as an anniversary model!

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I am well aware. I own several of both 16610 and 16610LV

[Swiss Mad!]

Originally Posted by Jason71

I am well aware. I own several of both 16610 and 16610LV

Was surprised by your comment that only Rolex would know the difference between a standard LN & a true LV??

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[larsr]

Originally Posted by 037

It should say V or LV. I've personally not seen one without these designations on the papers and hang tags.

Edit: padi56 mentions that this isn't the case outside of the US so please that that into consideration.

Reading this thread got me to check the paper work on my 2007 16610LV, which I bought new from authorized Dealer.

The Rolex papers do not have an LV designation. The credit card receipt from the authorized US dealer says 50th Anniv. Sub. and the green hanging tag mentions serial number (which matches Rolex papers) and reads: 16610LV.

Must say I am a little surprised Rolex didn't designate LV on papers...

[omitohud]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

I sold a genuine watch only one last year. Prior to sale I communicated with buyer and we agreed that he would pay for a Rolex service. This way he got a service card and paperwork stating the LV part and confirmation of the serial number proving the flat 4 was period correct. Paying the extra was not a problem for peace of mind.

OP take comfort in the fact the bezel insert and hands are genuine and worth a good sum.

Perhaps a deal with the seller could prove fruitful.

It’s never happened to me before so I’m wondering. If you bring a Rolex for service with incorrect period but genuine parts, would rsc inform you voluntarily, or you have to ask for it? Because if it’s the former, then there are advantages to getting service by Rsc. No independent watchmaker have access to Rolex database.




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[omitohud]

Originally Posted by mmmmp

Couldn't have said it better myself!

To OP - I feel for you brother. Nothing worse than looking forward to an exciting purchase and having a monkey wrench tossed into the works.

Hope this gets resolved ASAP.

Best,
Mark


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Even in person it would fool experts. Unless you have Rolex database, no one can be certain. Online purchase is a none issue here.


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[123Blueface]

Originally Posted by omitohud

It’s never happened to me before so I’m wondering. If you bring a Rolex for service with incorrect period but genuine parts, would rsc inform you voluntarily, or you have to ask for it? Because if it’s the former, then there are advantages to getting service by Rsc. No independent watchmaker have access to Rolex database.




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If not the way it should be, regardless if genuine parts used, you will hear it from them.

[MonsterSS]

awe man sorry to hear that... it really sucks... I hope you can get it resolved!

[omitohud]

“Look where the watch originated...we can imagine where the parts swap took place...”

I wonder what that means. It could happened anywhere in the world by whatever people.


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[79280_116520]

Originally Posted by exador

Look where the watch originated...we can imagine where the parts swap took place...

The dealer stamp is a legit Rolex AD. Not sure where your assumptions are pointing to beyond possibly being "bias".

Switcheroo could have happened anywhere, Rolex parts were rampantly available in Italy years ago. If say the changes were made there, where will you point the finger then?