Tipping has gotten out of hand (USA)

[JakeK]

Lol it’s a joke now, well pre-Covid anyway. Everybody and their brother asking for tips. Worst is when they try to nudge you into tipping before you complete the transaction and the minimum is like 18% or something.

Back in the mid and late 90s my hourly rate was less than $2 at a super fancy country club. I hustled for tips like Pete Rose played ball. I made decent money but I worked for it. I could pay my rent for the month with a good night and that was in 1996 when the dinner special at a club with a $20k initiation fee was $7.95 and most tables were 4 tops.

Now with Covid I tip at a lot more places but mainly to try and keep these places in business. I’d rather give a little extra upfront than see a place shut down and people lose their livelihoods.

[BNA/LION]

Give Out The Tips! Always Tip 15%-20% depending on the quality of service. I did start to leave $2-$3 when paying for pick up orders when there was no sit down service. I have no problem leaving less than 15% if the service and the food are not in line.

Best to just take all things into consideration, put yourself in the place of the other person and tip accordingly.

[FTX I]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

will pledge as soon as I get on my comp and figure out how to.


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Any news on that?

Maybe I can help.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=781738

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by FTX I

Any news on that?

Maybe I can help.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=781738

Must mean a lot to you guys. Thanks for the link. One hiccup. I don’t do business with PayPal. I’ve messaged Steve about other potential payment options. Awaiting his response.


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[FTX I]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

Must mean a lot to you guys. Thanks for the link. One hiccup. I don’t do business with PayPal. I’ve messaged Steve about other potential payment options. Awaiting his response.


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Yes it does. More than some people think. You seem to be one of the good guys here so many thanks for your contribution.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by FTX I

Yes it does. More than some people think. You seem to be one of the good guys here so many thanks for your contribution.

It hasn’t happened yet but hopefully he will respond with some other options.

Thanks,


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[dtwer]

Originally Posted by Cryten

It's a psychological trick. Many people can't say no, they feel embarrassed and are guilt-tripped into agreeing to give away their money.

It's like the "can I round up your bill for some scam charity you've never heard of?"

Tips are earned and encourage or reward good service. Cashing out a purchase isn't a service. What next, do we start tipping the guy in the toll booth?

This.

Surprising that many have forgotten the meaning of tipping. If I have to tip a cashier or wait staff because of how low their pay appears compared to mine, then it's charity not tips. The difference between charity and tips may seem trivial but it's significant; one is borne out of sympathy while the other is out of recognition earned.

If I were on the receiving end, I would want my customers to tip me because I have earned their recognition by having done a superb job for them rather than them taking pity on me.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by dtwer

This.

Surprising that many have forgotten the meaning of tipping. If I have to tip a cashier or wait staff because of how low their pay appears compared to mine, then it's charity not tips. The difference between charity and tips may seem trivial but it's significant; one is borne out of sympathy while the other is out of recognition earned.

If I were on the receiving end, I would want my customers to tip me because I have earned their recognition by having done a superb job for them rather than them taking pity on me.

I find your difference askew. I don't hand out charity at all. People earned my recognition by showing up to work.

Its no secret that people can sit at home collecting government checks and make just as much as working a low wage job without wasting any of their time. The fact that people show up to minimum/low wage jobs absolutely blows my mind. those that are doing their part ensuring our economy gets moving, I get my food without having to wait half an hour or order online because they're short staffed; or not at all because they had to adjust hours or not open for the day due to lack of labor are all excellent reasons to tip in my opinion. That's not a hand out, thats a hand up. Thats a kudos for showing up today, because I know how easy it would've been to call in with "covid symptoms" to get a paid vacation.

How much I make has nothing to do with it, I contributed to others livelihood when I had little to offer and I do my best to share what I have now that I've been blessed enough to have it. I simply find minimum wage heinous and that if someone's employer won't assess them with a value i find acceptable, ill do what I can to settle the difference.
Putting my money where my mouth is so to speak.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by 330ci

The fact that people show up to minimum/low wage jobs absolutely blows my mind. those that are doing their part ensuring our economy gets moving, I get my food without having to wait half an hour or order online because they're short staffed; or not at all because they had to adjust hours or not open for the day due to lack of labor are all excellent reasons to tip in my opinion.

^This.

I will add that answering the phone, getting your food prepared for pickup, having it ready by the time you show up and cashing you out at the register is all on time that the server could have been putting towards other customers that are sitting at tables (who would be more likely to tip). So in a nutshell, it’s not charity, it’s compensation for time and a job well done.


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[dtwer]

Originally Posted by 330ci

I find your difference askew. I don't hand out charity at all. People earned my recognition by showing up to work.

Its no secret that people can sit at home collecting government checks and make just as much as working a low wage job without wasting any of their time. The fact that people show up to minimum/low wage jobs absolutely blows my mind. those that are doing their part ensuring our economy gets moving, I get my food without having to wait half an hour or order online because they're short staffed; or not at all because they had to adjust hours or not open for the day due to lack of labor are all excellent reasons to tip in my opinion. That's not a hand out, thats a hand up. Thats a kudos for showing up today, because I know how easy it would've been to call in with "covid symptoms" to get a paid vacation.

How much I make has nothing to do with it, I contributed to others livelihood when I had little to offer and I do my best to share what I have now that I've been blessed enough to have it. I simply find minimum wage heinous and that if someone's employer won't assess them with a value i find acceptable, ill do what I can to settle the difference.
Putting my money where my mouth is so to speak.

I get what you are saying. To me, however, recognizing someone for simply showing up to work is setting the bar way to low; it's akin to giving out trophies for mere participating. Lest we forget, people receive pay for the hours they work; they don't show up to work for free. Getting your food to you at the time they promise is what the business is supposed to deliver in exchange for the price they charge you, it's not above and beyond. Putting it differently, do you believe the business would find it acceptable if you say "well since I pay you the price that we have agreed on, can you recognize me for it by giving me a discount?"

As for minimum wage, I don't like it any more than you do. I nevertheless don't believe it's a problem, let alone one that warrants my fixing by doling out a dollar here and two there. In a free market economy people are compensated according to what the market determines is the value of their labor. The reality is, a great majority of people work the minimum wage jobs as a transitional phase until they can move on to better wages through their own hard work and endeavors, they don't stay in that phase forever and that's the beauty of human aspiration for betterment. If someone stays in a minimum wage job for their entire career, it's likely they are there by choice. It's neither good nor bad; it's just individual choices. Even in that case, there are various levels of social assistance provided based on income levels. These are funded on tax dollars that we as taxpayers contribute.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by dtwer

I get what you are saying. To me, however, recognizing someone for simply showing up to work is setting the bar way to low; it's akin to giving out trophies for mere participating. Lest we forget, people receive pay for the hours they work; they don't show up to work for free. Getting your food to you at the time they promise is what the business is supposed to deliver in exchange for the price they charge you, it's not above and beyond. Putting it differently, do you believe the business would find it acceptable if you say "well since I pay you the price that we have agreed on, can you recognize me for it by giving me a discount?"

As for minimum wage, I don't like it any more than you do. I nevertheless don't believe it's a problem, let alone one that warrants my fixing by doling out a dollar here and two there. In a free market economy people are compensated according to what the market determines is the value of their labor. The reality is, a great majority of people work the minimum wage jobs as a transitional phase until they can move on to better wages through their own hard work and endeavors, they don't stay in that phase forever and that's the beauty of human aspiration for betterment. If someone stays in a minimum wage job for their entire career, it's likely they are there by choice. It's neither good nor bad; it's just individual choices. Even in that case, there are various levels of social assistance provided based on income levels. These are funded on tax dollars that we as taxpayers contribute.

It’s not “recognizing for simply showing up”, if you receive good service from a “tipped employee” you should tip. Some states in this great nation of ours have the minimum wage for tipped employees at $2.13 an hour. Yes, $2.13 per hour. If you’re interested in this please view my link. The Federal government mandates that tipped employees make $7.25 an hour between their tips and “hourly wage” (barely 2 gallons of gas). So if you make less tips your employer only has to pay you enough to bring you to $7.25.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage

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[Thug]

When it comes down to it the employers need to do better rather than have the customers make up the difference in wages.

[SDGT3]

If there's anything I would add is to try and be patient with not just the wait staff but any service employee whether in food, hospitality, bank tellers, retail, convenience store clerks. Nearly all businesses are under staffed regardless of the industry and it's not realistic to expect the level of service we had prior to March 2020. Your food may take a little longer to come out or the line may be a little longer. It's not the worker's fault and a little kindness goes a long way to making their jobs bearable.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

If there's anything I would add is to try and be patient with not just the wait staff but any service employee whether in food, hospitality, bank tellers, retail, convenience store clerks. Nearly all businesses are under staffed regardless of the industry and it's not realistic to expect the level of service we had prior to March 2020. Your food may take a little longer to come out or the line may be a little longer. It's not the worker's fault and a little kindness goes a long way to making their jobs bearable.

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[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Thug

When it comes down to it the employers need to do better rather than have the customers make up the difference in wages.

Drop the mic.

[904VT]

Celebrities seem to always have to deal with this issue. Everyone expects them to tip massively and make the little guy rich. When they tip normal they're called cheap lol. The tip for everything culture imo at least has been a way for employers to skirt wage/benefits and employees to skirt taxes in some cases. Almost like a dirty secret area of the economy. Employer underpays employees, customer tips in cash, everyone but the customer happy. At this rate, we'll be tipping the McDonald's robot cashiers that take orders in the future...

Tipping though is always a nice thing to do, but a bit ridiculous that is now expected for everything including mixing up a coffee. IMO at least

[330ci]

Originally Posted by 904VT

Celebrities seem to always have to deal with this issue. Everyone expects them to tip massively and make the little guy rich. When they tip normal they're called cheap lol. The tip for everything culture imo at least has been a way for employers to skirt wage/benefits and employees to skirt taxes in some cases. Almost like a dirty secret area of the economy. Employer underpays employees, customer tips in cash, everyone but the customer happy. At this rate, we'll be tipping the McDonald's robot cashiers that take orders in the future...

Tipping though is always a nice thing to do, but a bit ridiculous that is now expected for everything including mixing up a coffee. IMO at least

I mean proportionally speaking that minimum wage worker pays much more of their livelihood into taxes than someone at the top of the bracket.
Taxes are another thing that is unfair, its quite offensive to be broke as hell paying significant amounts of taxes while someone with so much money says its unfair to pay the same percentage as its much more money than the poor person has to pay. In a biblical sense, the needy are paying far more than the rich in this country as they have little to nothing EXTRA to offer to begin with. Its damn near logically impossible to explain how taxes are fair in this country.
Then add in that profits are shared by shareholders, not trickled down to employees, it further adds to the rich profiting from the poor.

This isn't about tipping massively to make the little guy rich, this is about people being paid enough to keep a roof over their head and maybe a bit of food in the fridge and a few minor luxuries here and there to encourage potential growth. The way the current system is set up, people get stuck in a position and fall further and further behind until they're stuck in a pit of hopelessness.

Money doesn't solve all of the world's problems, but as stimulus checks have shown, giving people a little bit extra to get ahead in life does work. What that also tells me is wages are just a smidgen too low to be sustainable.

There seems to be a lot of people who recognize this problem, but view it as a "its not my problem to solve" while I agree companies should step up, pay better and offer benefits. We live in a society that will just point out another class of underpaid employees and say well why should Joe the burger flipper make as much as Sally the ambulance driver when in reality they're both getting screwed by their employer.

I don't really feel there's a right or wrong answer to this discussion. I don't think people are bad for not tipping but I think if you can afford it, the benefits to society are far greater than the monetary sacrifice. I'm not out there changing anyone's life, I'm just doing what I can so that maybe at the end of the week they can treat themself to a nice meal or a movie, coffee or whatever.
I'm as frugal and cheap as they come, but I always find giving a little extra to be worth it.

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Thug

When it comes down to it the employers need to do better rather than have the customers make up the difference in wages.

Try making that statement in a shareholder meeting and let me know the response

[330ci]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

It’s not “recognizing for simply showing up”, if you receive good service from a “tipped employee” you should tip. Some states in this great nation of ours have the minimum wage for tipped employees at $2.13 an hour. Yes, $2.13 per hour. If you’re interested in this please view my link. The Federal government mandates that tipped employees make $7.25 an hour between their tips and “hourly wage” (barely 2 gallons of gas). So if you make less tips your employer only has to pay you enough to bring you to $7.25.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage

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Exactly, I've never even had to work a minimum wage job so I have no clue the struggle that would entail, but even when I started working making twice that, I still struggled to get ahead with school and all.

[Blansky]

In my opinion, there are 2 types of people in this world.

Those that try to help other people and those that exploit other people.

At one time people worked for companies that were small and the boss generally cared about his people. Even partly because if he screwed his people, everyone in town would know what kind of person he was.

With multinational corporations, the exploiters are safely hidden from view and as I said before, the employees are considered an expense, not an asset. They'll spend millions of dollars lobbying to keep wages low.

So the guy on the street (the public) subsidizes his employees so at the end of every quarter, his number look good and he can get his yearly bonuses.

So the double edge sword of tipping is this, the more we tip, the less he will feel obligated to pay his people. Why should he. He's got his numbers to think about.

And he knows that you probably have a conscious and will tip generously, and he knows he doesn't.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by 330ci

I mean proportionally speaking that minimum wage worker pays much more of their livelihood into taxes than someone at the top of the bracket.
Taxes are another thing that is unfair, its quite offensive to be broke as hell paying significant amounts of taxes while someone with so much money says its unfair to pay the same percentage as its much more money than the poor person has to pay. In a biblical sense, the needy are paying far more than the rich in this country as they have little to nothing EXTRA to offer to begin with. Its damn near logically impossible to explain how taxes are fair in this country.
Then add in that profits are shared by shareholders, not trickled down to employees, it further adds to the rich profiting from the poor.

This isn't about tipping massively to make the little guy rich, this is about people being paid enough to keep a roof over their head and maybe a bit of food in the fridge and a few minor luxuries here and there to encourage potential growth. The way the current system is set up, people get stuck in a position and fall further and further behind until they're stuck in a pit of hopelessness.

Money doesn't solve all of the world's problems, but as stimulus checks have shown, giving people a little bit extra to get ahead in life does work. What that also tells me is wages are just a smidgen too low to be sustainable.

There seems to be a lot of people who recognize this problem, but view it as a "its not my problem to solve" while I agree companies should step up, pay better and offer benefits. We live in a society that will just point out another class of underpaid employees and say well why should Joe the burger flipper make as much as Sally the ambulance driver when in reality they're both getting screwed by their employer.

I don't really feel there's a right or wrong answer to this discussion. I don't think people are bad for not tipping but I think if you can afford it, the benefits to society are far greater than the monetary sacrifice. I'm not out there changing anyone's life, I'm just doing what I can so that maybe at the end of the week they can treat themself to a nice meal or a movie, coffee or whatever.
I'm as frugal and cheap as they come, but I always find giving a little extra to be worth it.

You bring up good points as real wage growth has been near zero over the decades (as is the CPI reference basket out of date). I will say though that usually those that make less and still pay into taxes get the benefit of many outlay programs as you mention which in many forms is a return of capital for them. Those such as the stimulus(which was only if making under a certain salary), subsidized items (those that not always seem as compensation but are comp), and if we take a fair look at the other side, the standard deductions are also disproportionately larger in return for those making less in the opposite take of the above. Essentially, rearranging of capital so that it gets too complicated to follow. But agreed workers should be paid more. I just think that burden should be on the employers instead of the hands off approach. Some jobs as well are meant to be jobs, not careers. That has been lost. With the undeserving stigma surrounding votech education though I am hardly surprised we have such an employment gap.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Blansky

In my opinion, there are 2 types of people in this world.

Those that try to help other people and those that exploit other people.

At one time people worked for companies that were small and the boss generally cared about his people. Even partly because if he screwed his people, everyone in town would know what kind of person he was.

With multinational corporations, the exploiters are safely hidden from view and as I said before, the employees are considered an expense, not an asset. They'll spend millions of dollars lobbying to keep wages low.

So the guy on the street (the public) subsidizes his employees so at the end of every quarter, his number look good and he can get his yearly bonuses.

So the double edge sword of tipping is this, the more we tip, the less he will feel obligated to pay his people. Why should he. He's got his numbers to think about.

And he knows that you probably have a conscious and will tip generously, and he knows he doesn't.

Great points

[904VT]

Originally Posted by 330ci

Try making that statement in a shareholder meeting and let me know the response

I think shareholder obligations have been grossly redefined to a fault. As a steward of capital it is your responsibility to make responsible profit for your shareholders while holding high business ethics. Today, it is misconstrued by CEOs (and shareholders) to think max profit this quarter today. Imo not too much different than why you see Rolex more successful than Swatch/Omega on product development. Most CEOs don’t realize (or maybe they do) that most proxies are held by basket/passive products. Perhaps there lies the problem. The individual stopped buying the individual stock, and as a result lost influence.

[Star Ferry]

it's not the tipping expectations that bother me, it's everything else.

Prices have increased, while service has become less consistent. I don't really care that a $200 dinner becomes $240 with tip, so long as it's a good quality dinner. But if the experience is lacking, then the expectation of a tip feels like a scam.

I voted with my wallet. Not by leaving shoddy tips, but rather by eating out far less often than I used to.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by 904VT

I think shareholder obligations have been grossly redefined to a fault. As a steward of capital it is your responsibility to make responsible profit for your shareholders while holding high business ethics. Today, it is misconstrued by CEOs (and shareholders) to think max profit this quarter today. Imo not too much different than why you see Rolex more successful than Swatch/Omega on product development. Most CEOs don’t realize (or maybe they do) that most proxies are held by basket/passive products. Perhaps there lies the problem. The individual stopped buying the individual stock, and as a result lost influence.

It's part of the wacky process whereby law and policy have replaced good judgment.

"We have to pay folks that amount. First because we have a legal duty to maximize profit. Second because it's our policy to do so."

"Policy" is whatever a company says it is. Many companies will continue to cite their internal policies even when those policies contradict the law. Which brings us to door number two: the justification of bad behavior via vague appeals to "the law" or "legal liability"

As for directors and officers, clearly they do have an obligation to try in good faith to turn a profit, but the point has been totally exaggerated

[330ci]

Originally Posted by Blansky

In my opinion, there are 2 types of people in this world.

Those that try to help other people and those that exploit other people.

At one time people worked for companies that were small and the boss generally cared about his people. Even partly because if he screwed his people, everyone in town would know what kind of person he was.

With multinational corporations, the exploiters are safely hidden from view and as I said before, the employees are considered an expense, not an asset. They'll spend millions of dollars lobbying to keep wages low.

So the guy on the street (the public) subsidizes his employees so at the end of every quarter, his number look good and he can get his yearly bonuses.

So the double edge sword of tipping is this, the more we tip, the less he will feel obligated to pay his people. Why should he. He's got his numbers to think about.

And he knows that you probably have a conscious and will tip generously, and he knows he doesn't.

And the real mic drop here ��
Excellent post, reads like a poem.

I hope I am not too much a hindrance on actual change being implemented. But definitely gives me some pause for thought

[omar10213245]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

I don’t have a problem tipping the person cashing me out on Togo orders. The same person cashing me out also waits tables. I don’t know what the minimum wage for waitstaff is here but last I remember it was something stupid like $5 an hour. She/he took their time to take my order over the phone and give me my order promptly when I come in to pick it up. This is time they could be putting toward their tables, therefore I don’t see a problem with giving the option to be compensated for that time.

I also receive impeccable service from most every place we frequent, IMO that warrants tipping.

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i simply do not agree with this. if i'm calling in an order, and i come in, pick it up and promptly leave, that does not warrant a tip.

[pickettt]

Originally Posted by Blansky

In my opinion, there are 2 types of people in this world.

Those that try to help other people and those that exploit other people.

At one time people worked for companies that were small and the boss generally cared about his people. Even partly because if he screwed his people, everyone in town would know what kind of person he was.

With multinational corporations, the exploiters are safely hidden from view and as I said before, the employees are considered an expense, not an asset. They'll spend millions of dollars lobbying to keep wages low.

So the guy on the street (the public) subsidizes his employees so at the end of every quarter, his number look good and he can get his yearly bonuses.

So the double edge sword of tipping is this, the more we tip, the less he will feel obligated to pay his people. Why should he. He's got his numbers to think about.

And he knows that you probably have a conscious and will tip generously, and he knows he doesn't.

But after all of that, if the customer doesn’t ’t tip, who is the bad guy? The customer can’t win.

[Fleetlord]

Originally Posted by Thug

When it comes down to it the employers need to do better rather than have the customers make up the difference in wages.

Don't disagree, but what's the difference?

If the employers pay more, they will simply raise prices for their goods and services to cover the expense.

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by pickettt

But after all of that, if the customer doesn’t ’t tip, who is the bad guy? The customer can’t win.

Yup. The game is always rigged.

We've been going to Maui for about 20 years and staying at our timeshare but just a few years ago we started getting an envelope on the desk so we could "easily and conveniently" pay/tip housekeeping. I'd never thought before about tipping housekeeping.

Just an added guilt trip I guess, to now tip housekeeping.

Where is the envelope for Check-in-Lady or Maintenance Man, or Pool Cleaner Guy or Leaf Blower Guy, or Tree Trimmer Guy, or Carpet Cleaner Guy, or Koi Feeder Lady or.......

I'm sure they'll have their envelopes added next.