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26 May 2012, 07:29 AM | #1 |
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OP should not be allowed a full refund. If it was the first 3 days to a week, hell yes! But he waited too long. Plain and simple. This is a vintage. Vintage buyers do their homework if you really care. Watch your own ass when buying a vintage. Know everything there is to know about that one watch...
Especially if you are anal to it being all "original"! You want all "original" you should know what all original looks like yourself. C'mon man, seriously? A month? You are as much to blame as he is and this is coming from someone who doesn't even like him. But now that a month has gone by, I think Steve has given the OP a great return policy. Exchange it! Whether Steve knew or not is NOW irrelevant. OP waited too damn long. I will say I would never buy from him. This isn't the first time I heard of this happening. |
26 May 2012, 08:34 AM | #2 |
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X 2.....
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26 May 2012, 09:54 AM | #3 |
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X6 no idea whatsoever!
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26 May 2012, 10:29 AM | #4 |
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26 May 2012, 11:10 AM | #5 | |
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Put pride aside
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This is some lesson to be learned from this thread and it is hoped, common sense prevails, in the spirit of vintage-watch collecting - creating friends and not foes. After all, it is not going to be the end of the world for both, the buyer and the seller. |
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26 May 2012, 11:27 AM | #6 |
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I think spell check is in order. LOL
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26 May 2012, 12:59 PM | #7 |
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Posted by Welshwatchman (Paul) :
I would be very interested to see a post from those so qualified stating that the dial is likely (or even reasonably possibly) original to the watch, just for the record. I've noticed a considerable absence here from most of the other vintage guys too, which I'm sure most would agree with me that the questioned matte dial would not be considered factory correct for an 86XXXXX serial numbered Submariner. While it is plausible, it is not very probable or reasonably possible at all.
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27 May 2012, 02:32 AM | #8 | |
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27 May 2012, 03:13 AM | #9 |
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Thank you as ever for all your considered opinions.
I'm not sure what to make of the situation. I have sent Steve several emails and have had no reply. I don't quite understand his posting. I don't know where the wearing the watch for a year came from as I had it for about 3 weeks in my safe before my friend pointed out the dial anomaly. I wear my other watches daily and only wore it once for about 2 hours before emailing Steve. The advert states Maxi dial 5513. All Maxi dialled 5513 are matt 5513s. I am not bothered if it was the original matt dial, but if it was originally a gloss dialled 5513 it is worth considerably less than advertised. Matt 5513 $6-7k, gloss dial 5513 $4-5k. Steve has asserted that this is the original dial, but every email I have received confirms my suspicion that it is a gloss dialled watch with a replacement matt dial. The advert also states 'Full Set'. I received a box, typed open papers and a couple of water damaged oyster booklets. No submariner booklet or any accessories. The watch looks great. I only wish to return it as it is not a Maxi matt 5513, it is a gloss 5513 with a Maxi dial from 10 years before fitted. I have offered to take an exchange or refund, but my confidence in the seller is being slowly eroded. I do however value all the input from various view points of view. As some have said I bought from a trusted seller to avoid this sort of hassle. If this is considered normal from dealers then we may all as well buy cheaper watches from private sellers, as the risk seems equal. All I ever wanted was an amicable solution to what I think may be a mistake of description. Regards David |
26 May 2012, 08:32 PM | #10 |
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Perhaps this should be a private matter between the OP and the seller?
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26 May 2012, 08:42 PM | #11 |
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26 May 2012, 09:10 PM | #12 |
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The OP states he purchased the watch one month ago, as of May 2012, i.e. April'ish 2012.
...of the little that I understand Steve's post, he states the OP has had the watch for over a year. This makes no sense. Further...Steve is "..no longer in a state of financial in limine.." I guess he can not back up his current transactions. This is very sad... |
27 May 2012, 01:22 AM | #13 | |
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Please simplify dealer's explanation
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Is there a chance someone can simplify the dealer's explanation, since English is not my first language, unfortunately? The respondent has to take into considerations he is a reputable dealer and at the same time a very informed lover of vintage-watches. The issue should be settled amicably, asap. Otherwise, it is going to be a stigma against him and this does, nobody any good. |
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27 May 2012, 01:53 AM | #14 | |
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Quote:
I have dealt with Steve before so can tell you that's not his normal way of communication. |
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27 May 2012, 01:58 AM | #15 |
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27 May 2012, 02:12 AM | #16 |
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If that is true than that concerns me. Steve you have been around here forever and have always been one of the good guys. I sincerly hope that you are ok. God speed Bro.
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27 May 2012, 03:12 AM | #17 |
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In business you live by your reputation and die by your reputation.
It can take years to build a good one. Hours to destroy one. It's how you handle your f*** ups that determine whether you keep or lose that reputation. Not many of the vintage guys here have commented? Probably because they were waiting at least to here Steve's side. Probably still won't now... Just be thankful that not all of us have the morals, ego or a small box of Rolexes in our community pawnshop and actually come on here for the passion of Rolex collecting. There will always be disagreements on how a dispute should be handled by people not party to the transaction but sometimes it's so obvious what is acceptable and what is not that you start to doubt yourself. Lesson here - Buyer & Seller beware, no matter who you are dealing with, when it comes to large amounts of your hard earned. But especially if you are dealing with a community poorshop, sorry pawnshop. :) |
27 May 2012, 03:54 AM | #18 |
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Very disappointing repsonse. At the end of the day it is very important to know what you are buying before you do. Clearly this dial does not belong to this watch with this serial number--sorry no chance IMHO. If you would have done homework in advance you would have kown that. This kind of stuff happens all the time and unfortunately people put watches together and don't disclose it. Feel badly for you OP and understand where you are coming from and would have hoped for a different repsonse from seller versus a cryptic repsonse that doesn't address issue. Clearly in a business that depends upon reputation this won't help. Let the lesson be learned to all--Buyer beware and know what you are buying. Enjoy your watch now for what it is and just know you paid too much for it but still can enjoy it.
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27 May 2012, 04:34 AM | #19 | |
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Unfortunate for all concerned. Lesson learned and "IBT inevitable L," cause there's really not much more to be said
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27 May 2012, 04:27 AM | #20 |
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Wow. I just read through the whole thread and I am shocked. There have been two occasions as a seller where I have been asked to take a return and both times the answer has been yes. I thought that's just the right way to do things. There were also two occasions where I sent a watch back to the seller for a full refund and both times the sellers were very cooperative. To see this and especially the response in this thread is shocking to me and unless Steve fixes this I'm afraid he has certainly lost me and many other potential customers here.
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27 May 2012, 04:30 AM | #21 |
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Also, not to enrage pawnshopkiller any more than he already is, but I think your response to this situation was completely innapropriate and although apparently it means nothing to you, but I doubt people who read through this would feel comfortable buying from you either.
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27 May 2012, 04:34 AM | #22 |
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You said you had the watch for a month, Steve seems to believe you had it for a year. When did you buy the watch? Perhaps that's his misunderstanding? There's a big difference between 4 weeks and 44 weeks.
If truly unworn, obviously only you would know, a refund is in order, if the later, or worn, a credit is more than fair. It's not like he doesn't get tons of quality vintage watches to choose from. Steves response should probably be reviewed after a good night's sleep. I hope for a fair resolution for the both of you.
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27 May 2012, 05:42 AM | #23 | |
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http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=221006 |
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27 May 2012, 04:38 AM | #24 |
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In all the discussion over the past few days I wonder why a 3rd path has not been explored.
It seems to me that the watch could be ready for a service since it's history is actually unknown. IMHO -The only entity that knows the best way to authenticate that case # and dial is the Rolex RSC.
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27 May 2012, 04:41 AM | #25 |
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Based on this thread.... There are 2 dealers that it would seem I would be best avoiding.... And that's exactly what I shall be doing..
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27 May 2012, 05:11 AM | #26 |
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I think the most important question is, if as it appears this watch has been mis-sold will the moderators of this forum allow this dealer to continue earning a living by advertising here???????????????????
I would love to hear the answer to this question as I suspect a few others would. Regards Sean |
27 May 2012, 08:39 AM | #27 | |
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One good thing about not being politically bound to anyone is that we could shut down the entire FS section with no notice should we feel that the negatives outweighed the positives. In the meantime, it appears that one reputation has been scarred and a third party who had no dog in this fight also has damaged his reputation. The OP, by being reasonable, has not contributed to the demise of the thread and so it continues, further diminishing reputations. I've seen it before and it never gets easier to understand. I guess it's why those with hard earned sterling reputations draw so much custom. You can bet your boots that SM will not be listing items here while this thread simmers, it would not be wise of him. |
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27 May 2012, 10:17 AM | #28 | |
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27 May 2012, 05:26 AM | #29 | |
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27 May 2012, 05:42 AM | #30 |
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It's a murky world this place called vintage.
It's part of the reason why I have not jumped in.
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