3235….disappointed

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by DavidUK

Hearsay.

Unless you can name them and link to their statements.

Why give those who say they have "the issue" false hope?

Why spread more fear amongst the vast majority of happy owners by saying Rolex will effectively bin all 3235 watches in some vast recall/refund?

Mr Dieter, Mr Gunther, Mr Helmut, Mrs Franka, Ms Genevieve.

They are classy and all use fine parchment paper and ballpoint so there’s no link.

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by SearChart

The update was a change in ball bearings for the rotor and a change in text engraving on the bridges and rotor. It has nothing to do with the issue that people are experiencing.

Even the 31×× got updated last year, every mainspring now has to be a complete barrel change during service, the new barrel has an extra 2 hours of power reserve.
Daytona 4130 barrel also changed, no seperate mainsprings available anymore, same goes for 22××, all of these movements now get the barrel from the 2236 with more power reserve when you get a service.

Parts for movements get updated all the time, even in older movements. In recent years the 15×× (yes an over 50 year old movement) received a 'quiet update' where the escape wheel anti-shock got updated to Kif anti-shock, which is easier for the watchmakers to work with than the old spring (which was an absolute pain in the..)

There's many more of these updates, and aside from watchmakers like me most people will never know of them.

Thks for sharing!

32xx is an outstanding movement. I’ve owned now 4 and counting. Reliable. Accurate. Power all my constant-wears.


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[DavidUK]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Mr Dieter, Mr Gunther, Mr Helmut, Mrs Franka, Ms Genevieve.

They are classy and all use fine parchment paper and ballpoint so there’s no link.

Ah... so you were joking.

Ha........

.......ha....

[goodolejr]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

A self-perpetuating echo-chamber of doom based on a limited data set of anecdotes from obsessed owners of specialized equipment, many of whom are convinced that a documented anomaly is actually a conspiracy worthy of a class action lawsuit. And now the doom cult contagion is spreading to the main forum. That’s what’s not good.

Is this what’s known as gaslighting? I’ve read a lot of the phenomenon, but might be getting to experience it firsthand.


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[Gearjockey]

So I now get 50hrs PR with a new 3135 mainspring/barrel???

To be quite honest, I never cared how much PR I attained because I actually don’t mind winding and setting (it’s 1/5 in regular rotation anyway). It’s something I kindof look forward to as I enjoy interacting with my watch and evaluating its functionality through feeling the mechanical resistance.

I never thought I would think twice about something the AD offered me but here I am, seriously reconsidering my next offering featuring 32xx.

I happen to love the 116610LN styling with thinner clasp etc. My attraction to supercase with 3135 can best be compared to airline pilots loving the Boeing 777 as opposed to a Boeing 787. The 777 is not the best looking aircraft (very close) but it is the height of Boeing engineering and production. Everything thereafter is just a compromise and Boeing refuses to acknowledge their sellout to higher ROI (which cost them more in the long run). Just a decades long failure which ultimately cost them their position as the top aerospace company. I see Rolex paralleling Boeing in that respect, pretending the public won’t notice their failure to acquiesce to the truth.

[Mountain]

Originally Posted by csaltphoto

And this is what makes the 32XX movement issues such a hot topic here for some of the owners. Or at least one of the issues. There are at least a subset of Rolex owners who became owners at least partially because of Rolexes reputation for durability and accuracy. There are plenty of luxury watch brands where this isn't an issue; the movements are acknowledged to be finicky and fragile and in some cases not even all that accurate. That's fine; that is not what that company is marketing.

Rolex, specifically, is marketing its ruggedness, reliability and accuracy.

Definitely! I bought my explorer as I thought it would be reliable and stand up to everything I could throw at it. My trust in the brand has gone from absolute to not quite nil, but not far off. If I could easily sell the watch, I would, but frankly can’t be bothered with the effort.

My only hope is that a solution is ultimately found, but as I’ve now learned, we’ll never really know as Rolex is so tight lipped. Again, had I known more about the business as a whole, I would have steered well clear. I prefer openness and transparency.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by DavidUK

Ah... so you were joking.

Ha........

.......ha....

If you say so. Cheerio!

[SearChart]

Unfortunately there's too much tribalism and anger involved in this subject.

I'm fixing more warranty 32×× than ever before, more than any other watch. But I guess I'm just a dirty liar then.

Think I might sign off here for good.

[Gearjockey]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Unfortunately there's too much tribalism and anger involved in this subject.

I'm fixing more warranty 32×× than ever before, more than any other watch. But I guess I'm just a dirty liar then.

Think I might sign off here for good.

Sear

At what point do they admit failure and redesign the movement?

Do you hear of any redesign of parts to fix this problem?

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Unfortunately there's too much tribalism and anger involved in this subject.

I'm fixing more warranty 32×× than ever before, more than any other watch. But I guess I'm just a dirty liar then.

Think I might sign off here for good.

Don’t let the haters get you down Bas! I trust you implicitly! As my technician and arctic booze expert.

[Daytonaman799]

So far no problems with several new ge station watches. This is over atlrast 5 yrs where my sd43 and PepC both keep amazing time

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

Don’t let the haters get you down Bas! I trust you implicitly! As my technician and arctic booze expert.

I need to get back to that arctic wasteland, to avoid watches and drink moonshine

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by SearChart

I need to get back to that arctic wasteland, to avoid watches and drink moonshine

My private hovercraft will take us.

[goodolejr]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Unfortunately there's too much tribalism and anger involved in this subject.

I'm fixing more warranty 32×× than ever before, more than any other watch. But I guess I'm just a dirty liar then.

Think I might sign off here for good.

Bas - you’re very much appreciated here. The voice sanity and reason. Thank you for your contributions.

Love your IG feed as well.


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[Driver8]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Unfortunately there's too much tribalism and anger involved in this subject.

I'm fixing more warranty 32×× than ever before, more than any other watch. But I guess I'm just a dirty liar then.

Think I might sign off here for good.

You’re absolutely right about the tribalism on this one, Bas. Unfortunately we’re in a period (as a society as a whole it seems) of some people only believing things if it happens to them. Otherwise it’s “fake news” or “so called”. .

Your contribution here is always valued, so I for one hope you don’t sign off for good. As someone who doesn’t bury their head in the sand, I find your input incredibly useful and interesting. It’s good to have you here, so long may it continue!

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Unfortunately there's too much tribalism and anger involved in this subject.

I'm fixing more warranty 32×× than ever before, more than any other watch. But I guess I'm just a dirty liar then.

Think I might sign off here for good.

Much like the extreme views throughout the pandemic, I think we’re seeing a lot of “if I shout loud enough and wish hard enough it will be true” syndrome around this one.

I for one would love to believe that something (unbeknownst to Rolex’s own staff watchmakers) changed between the initial release and whenever my watch (2022 3230) was built. It would be awesome to convince myself of this. Then I remember Billy Bob Thornton’s line in “Bad Santa” (not sure if you’re familiar): “Wish into one hand, sh1+ into the other, see which fills up first.”

[destrodan]

Originally Posted by SearChart

I need to get back to that arctic wasteland, to avoid watches and drink moonshine

Hey Bas, although I don't post much, I do look forward to your posts for no-nonsense facts from someone who actually knows what he's talking about.

There are very few people who have made it into my book of 'go-to's' for horology insights (one was 'eightohms' - John - long ago on The Purists now WPS). Like it or not :) you're in that 'rarefied' company and your contributions of facts - minus the emotional debate - are appreciated by folks who really want to know what's going on without the emotional attachment that we all have toward our watches.

In short, your "Oscar the Grouch in his Can" pic now represents the certification of an important perspective to consider. :)

Things get very boring when watchmakers leave these forums.

[GGGMT]

We’re all just trying to learn here. Been great movements for me; apparently not for others. The tent is (should be) big enough for differing views. For me, the 3185 in my 16570 was bad.


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[Chewbacca]

Look what you all did to Bas!!!!!

You’re all REPORTED!!!

[destrodan]

1. There is virtually no question anymore that the 32XX movement is experiencing some issues.

2. Even if folks don't like statistics, once (1) above becomes generally accepted, we start trying to intuit confidence intervals and coverage probabilities. Because once we put cash on the table, we are 100 percent committed. Probabilities and degrees of confidence no longer matter then...we either have a good movement or we have a 'lemon' that needs to go back to Rolex one or multiple times (and maybe even more) over the years unless/until there's a permanent fix. In short, we're married to our decision and that watch.

3. So we get into conversations and posts about how many Rolexes posters own with the 32XX ("I have four with the 32XX and they've all had issues/some have had issues/they all worked flawlessly"). We explore considerations like my last post about feedback we've observed via the forums over a longer interval of time in order to determine an approximate 'baseline' for Rolex movement durability prior to 32XX. We take and read the polls in the forums. We pay attention to the posts of watchmakers repairing Rolexes who have access to a larger sample size of Rolex watches with the 32XX - knowing that these watchmakers also have a specialized skillset to assess the facts of the situation when performing the repairs. Rinse-and-repeat ad nauseam in the forums and posts until the issue is fixed by Rolex.

In short, everyone who is interested is trying to intuit (a) a reasonable sample size, (b) the right sample variability and (c) the right confidence interval relative to the pervasiveness of the 32XX issue and total population. So that we, as prospective buyers, minimize the probability of purchasing a 'lemon'.

Since Rolex won't ever share the true population of repairs versus the total number of 32XX watches or even what the issue is, we are left with 'scotch tape, bubble gum and bandaids' in our effort to Jerry rig reasonable approximations for the above.

I, for one, listen to the watchmakers. They aren't ADs or resellers who may have been forced into a set position on the 32XX (i.e. if they have inventory that they need to sell). I do like to read the comments by owners as they (and I) have realistic experience with the 32XX but their (and my) sample size is very small and we're all emotional about our own watches. So in my opinion the watchmakers who repair these watches are the best source for an approximation of a usable sample size, with sample variability and a confidence interval of some useable sort - and with less emotional response - even if this approach is not scientific.

That said, everyone 'picks their poison' as they say regarding their assessment methodology. And emotionally, I'm still very tempted to pick up a 124060 in place of my now-departed 126610 (never had an issue in the one year of ownership but I wanted the 124060 more).

And I'm still sad as everything noted above was never discussed in the forums for prior Rolex movements to the degree that it is for the 32XX as far as I can recall. Because it was always a foregone conclusion that Rolex movements were as durable as they get so the chances for a 'lemon' were close to nil. What other current mechanical watch brand had such reliability over the decades that ADs don't necessarily have to educate the buyer about the finicky nature of mechanical movements and with owners that still walk into ADs many, many years after their original purchase to ask someone to "please replace the battery"?

At least Rolexes with 31XX and 15XX - that earned this reputation - are still plentiful and available. And hopefully Rolex will come around very soon with the 32XX.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by GGGMT

We’re all just trying to learn here. Been great movements for me; apparently not for others. The tent is (should be) big enough for differing views. For me, the 3185 in my 16570 was bad.


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Where I see the problem here is that no one really wants Rolex to have dropped the ball. It's pretty major.

Add to that the common internet phenomenon of any minor issues getting blown out of proportion it becomes quite easy to take the dismissive "its all nonsense" side.

However not every internet tale of doom and gloom is blown out of proportion. Equally, despite the protestations of some, I'm not seeing doom and gloom - just a healthy dose of realism and acceptance.

Of course it may seem that way to those who are, for want of a better phrase, in denial.

And it doesn't help when one of those is a long serving and highly respected member.

From all of the available information we have, there is a fundamental concern with the 32xx movements.

And added to that, when someone who knows what he's talking about (Bas) says there is, that's good enough for me, and I'm not one to just accept anything without researching it properly.

PS - calling those with a differing view to yours 32xx clowns doesn't help.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Unfortunately there's too much tribalism and anger involved in this subject.

I'm fixing more warranty 32×× than ever before, more than any other watch. But I guess I'm just a dirty liar then.

Think I might sign off here for good.

Bas, don't let them get you down. The psychology of denial is very much at play here.

Don't take it personally my friend.

[news]

This thread is so “Internet”

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by news

This thread is so “Internet”

Not as much as your complete foot in mouth lack of understanding

[news]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Not as much as your complete foot in mouth lack of understanding

No but laughing at your own unfunny post is.

[Devildog]

I’m laughing at yours bud

[news]

Originally Posted by Devildog

I’m laughing at yours bud

So so “Internet”

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Devildog

Where I see the problem here is that no one really wants Rolex to have dropped the ball. It's pretty major.

Add to that the common internet phenomenon of any minor issues getting blown out of proportion it becomes quite easy to take the dismissive "its all nonsense" side.

However not every internet tale of doom and gloom is blown out of proportion. Equally, despite the protestations of some, I'm not seeing doom and gloom - just a healthy dose of realism and acceptance.

Of course it may seem that way to those who are, for want of a better phrase, in denial.

And it doesn't help when one of those is a long serving and highly respected member.

From all of the available information we have, there is a fundamental concern with the 32xx movements.

And added to that, when someone who knows what he's talking about (Bas) says there is, that's good enough for me, and I'm not one to just accept anything without researching it properly.

PS - calling those with a differing view to yours 32xx clowns doesn't help.

That’s reasonable my friend.

If you’re referring to me, I’ve never said that there aren’t issues with the 32xx movement.

What I will say is that IMHO there is an equally dismissive tone to members (many of whom are senior here) who have not experienced issues.

We seem to be dismissed because we either don’t have the fancy timing equipment, or in time … 2, 5 (insert number of years here) eventually our 32xx movements will develop the same problems. That may or may not be true, so I guess we will see in this forum in due time, and I will be the very first to report if I do.

So if we are to take the “data” from the 32xx thread to heart, 25% of all new 32xx movements have or will have the virus.

I guess I’ve been lucky.

PS: I hold no ill will toward the vocal members here who contribute to the movement thread. Even though some are irksome in their delivery (present company not included of course my friend).

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by brandrea

That’s reasonable my friend.

If you’re referring to me, I’ve never said that there aren’t issues with the 32xx movement.

What I will say is that IMHO there is an equally dismissive tone to members (many of whom are senior here) who have not experienced issues.

We seem to be dismissed because we either don’t have the fancy timing equipment, or in time … 2, 5 (insert number of years here) eventually our 32xx movements will develop the same problems. That may or may not be true, so I guess we will see in this forum in due time, and I will be the very first to report if I do.

So if we are to take the “data” from the 32xx thread to heart, 25% of all new 32xx movements have or will have the virus.

I guess I’ve been lucky.

PS: I hold no ill will toward the vocal members here who contribute to the movement thread. Even though some are irksome in their delivery (present company not included of course my friend).

Evening (as it is in the UK) Brian!

Apologies my friend. Not you. Peter. He’s quick to jump in with his standard response

You’ve always been extremely balanced in your views

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Unfortunately there's too much tribalism and anger involved in this subject.

I'm fixing more warranty 32×× than ever before, more than any other watch. But I guess I'm just a dirty liar then.

Think I might sign off here for good.

Stick with us Bas

Think of the positive, where Rolex back tracks and brings out the 33xx movements that can be dropped into the same hole.
Who knows, it may be the precursor of Rolex moving to servicing the ultra modern watches with exchange movements.
In my books it will be a watershed that will make the 31xx movements "The last of the Mohicans".
You were there