Breitling v Rolex?

[lorsban]

Also, as a watchmaker, over the last three years or so I have seen five seperate Rolex watches that have had scarred movements as a result of screws backing out.

This happened to my dad's and bros Rolexes. Not mine but then again, the Rolex isn't my daily wearer, it's their main watch tho.

[cmr]

Originally Posted by banned4life

it's funny that you make that analogy because I used to road race sportbikes and find Harley boring and useless for me...they all look the same, poor performance and poor handling. But people are taught they are a great bike when in reality they are a P.O.S. Just because they make a lot of money and have great marketing does not make them a good bike. No matter how old I get, I still love the the Japanese bikes.

let me know the next time you see a 75 year old japanese bike sell for 50,000.00. you are in a minority with your belief, a harley is like a zippo lighter, when it quites working you fix it and use it your whole life, a japanese bike is like a bic lighter, when it gets old and quites you just throw it in the trash and buy a new one. sorry brother.... nice try.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by cmr

let me know the next time you see a 75 year old japanese bike sell for 50,000.00. you are in a minority with your belief, a harley is like a zippo lighter, when it quites working you fix it and use it your whole life, a japanese bike is like a bic lighter, when it gets old and quites you just throw it in the trash and buy a new one. sorry brother.... nice try.

I actually laughed out loud reading that response.

This may be a surprise to most Harley owners... Not everyone finds those bikes attractive and even more are repulsed by the noise coming from those attention deprived people that feel the need to rev the engine while sitting at the light. IMO, they sound like when the vacuum hose on my BMW cracked... in other words, like crap.

As far as finding 75 year old jap bike that sells for $50k, give me a break. I can show you a candle holder for $450k so whats your point? Sorry to say that if the rest of the world could make the correlation of Zippo to Harley and Harley to Rolex, Rolex would probably be out of business.

[RRGHOST1]

Passed the AD for both Rolex and Breitling yesterday, in fact the watches were side by side. The first observation is, how shiny and blingy the Breitlings are compared to Rolex watches. Some models are nice, but it's in the name, Bright-ling. Too shiny by far.

[cmr]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

I actually laughed out loud reading that response.

This may be a surprise to most Harley owners... Not everyone finds those bikes attractive and even more are repulsed by the noise coming from those attention deprived people that feel the need to rev the engine while sitting at the light. IMO, they sound like when the vacuum hose on my BMW cracked... in other words, like crap.

As far as finding 75 year old jap bike that sells for $50k, give me a break. I can show you a candle holder for $450k so whats your point? Sorry to say that if the rest of the world could make the correlation of Zippo to Harley and Harley to Rolex, Rolex would probably be out of business.

as you wish but you should really come out of that bubble you live in. you missed the 75 year old bike analogy altogether.... the japanese didn't make them 75 years ago. they have no heritage or history anybody cares about that translates into passion. the only passion for those kind of bikes is whats coming out next year. last years model is long forgotten hence the crappy resale value. face it man, nobody gives a damn about a 1969 honda.

you can believe what you wish just don't try to sell it to me, i have been building bikes for 35 years and i know what people are interested in spending their money on.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by cmr

as you wish but you should really come out of that bubble you live in. you missed the 75 year old bike analogy altogether.... the japanese didn't make them 75 years ago. they have no heritage or history anybody cares about that translates into passion. the only passion for those kind of bikes is whats coming out next year. last years model is long forgotten hence the crappy resale value. face it man, nobody gives a damn about a 1969 honda.

you can believe what you wish just don't try to sell it to me, i have been building bikes for 35 years and i know what people are interested in spending their money on.

Bubble I'm living in? I'm as pragmatic as they come. I like the things I like yet appreciate differing opinions. Look at yourself in the mirror because in a matter of a couple of sentences, you have defined your entire existence as my-world-is-the-only-world.

So based on your brilliant theory of time/heritage=passion, can you tell all of us where Oldsmobile stands compared to Ferrari and Porsche?

Personally, I don't give a crap about a Honda or a Harley. Can I appreciate a Honda? absolutely. Can I appreciate a Harley? I did until sharing this chat with you.

[cmr]

Originally Posted by rr-nyc

Bubble I'm living in? I'm as pragmatic as they come. I like the things I like yet appreciate differing opinions. Look at yourself in the mirror because in a matter of a couple of sentences, you have defined your entire existence as my-world-is-the-only-world.

So based on your brilliant theory of time/heritage=passion, can you tell all of us where Oldsmobile stands compared to Ferrari and Porsche?

Personally, I don't give a crap about a Honda or a Harley. Can I appreciate a Honda? absolutely. Can I appreciate a Harley? I did until sharing this chat with you.

as you wish...... if that is all you comprehended out of what i posted i give up.

[mywifespissed]

Originally Posted by multimedia

Oh oh, watch out!

They are in my opinion the pinnacle of successful marketing campaigns - and have been so for many many years.

It's like that old saying; "people don't buy products, they buy stories"

Cheers,
Joe

Yup, all the luxury stuff we buy is simply an attempt to get a "high" from our own brain chemicals. The richer and more sophisticated you become, the harder it is to get those chemical pumps turned on.

[warp_foo]

Originally Posted by roadcarver

Where else would you get a Breitling and Omega? At a shop in a mall.

I bought both my Omega and Breitlings from an AD located inside a mall.

Breitlings have style and function as well.

I purchased both of my Rolex watches at a mall. Your point?

m

[cmr]

Originally Posted by warp_foo

I purchased both of my Rolex watches at a mall. Your point?

m

bought my gmt2c and ss daytona at a mall.

[Puffy]

Do not look Breitling at all. Far too blingy

[multimedia]

Originally Posted by Puffy

Do not look Breitling at all. Far too blingy

So, just look away then...




Cheers,
Joe

[crossplatform]

Personally they're both good, but the problem is marketing. Rolex is seen as the ultimate watch for success and wealth, if these other companies would attack that marketing with their own it could change. Omega was once the most popular brand before Rolex got marketed well.

[toddb]

Typically rolex seems 2 have higher resale and mystique
omega is down there with tag ......

[wisguy]

I own 2 Rolex and 1 Breitling, very different brands in my opinion and difficult to compare.

To each their own...

[Sixxgrand1]

Well after numerous Omega's, Breitling's, Rolex, Ulysse Nardin, SINN and IWC, the last four remaining watches in my stable are two Rolex and two Breitling's.
EXP I
EXP II
Aerospace
B-1

[tachif]

U know what?? Have them both !!! Amazing watches....

[stusrt]

I have a gmt iic, skyland, and planet ocean

I love all 3

Rolex has nothing to compete with the skyland
the gmt iic is the best investment
but the planet ocean is the most watch for your money

hope that settles the whole debate

[LuxuryWatchCollector]

Rolex remain the quintessential icon for success. We men turn 40 and flood into the Rolex and Mercedes dealers seeking the socially endorsed trappings of success.

I feel any well rounded collection must contain at least one Rolex piece just as surely as it should contain a Breitling piece. The Navitimer design has proven just as timeless as the Submariner.

All this is my long winded way of saying ..........buy both !

[Sponon]

Originally Posted by krlyuzh

With Breitling, it is one of the few brands in the world that puts EVERY watch they make through COSC certification, the ONLY company in the world to do it with quartz watches.

I was under the impression that Sinn also puts quartz movements through COSC.

Copy/paste from Sinn:

The most modern and precise chronometer quartz movement on the market, ETA 955.652-Movement, keeps the UX’s time, more than fulfilling the especially strict new Swiss chronometer norms for quartz movements. The temperature-stabilized movement is powered by a lithium ion battery, which not only has an exceptionally long life, but can also supply electricity at minus temperatures of up to -25° Celsius.

[clubbyjones]

I have spent far too much time in my life thinking about this exact question. Literally, I've spent days thinking about this (made me think I had OCD!!) I'm going to try to sum it up as directly and objectively as possible.

I've owned 13 different Rolex models and 9 Breitling models in the past four years.

First off, let's be clear that these are the two most recognized luxury watch companies in the US. Forget IWC, Tag, or even Omega, if you were going to open up a higher end watch store these would be the first two companies you would talk to in order to maximize the number of customers that would come in the store. This is why jewelers put pictures of Rolexes on billboards and have their name next to the giant Breitling ad in the magazines.

So after leaving out comparisons to other brands, lets leave out the marketing campaigns as well. Car and Driver does not post the commercials for the cars in their comparison tests, and as "watch nuts" we should do the same with our obsessions. It would be more appropriate to comment on the target audience OF the marketing rather than the marketing itself, similar to how Jeremy Clarkson and Richard Hammond comment on the typical drivers of the cars rather than the commercials and advertising styles of the companies.

Now, let's look at how exactly each company changes their watches over the years:




vs.





I picked these two models because these are, in my book, two "tool" watches. On the Breitling side, I see radical bracelet changes. On the Rolex side, I see the same bracelet (except the polish linked on the IIc, which many people have restored to the original brushed finish anyways). Both have a similar amount of facelifts over the years, which I don't think anyone thinks is a bad thing. I like the fact that the GMT IIc I'm wearing is quite similar to the original GMT designed for airline pilots in the 50s. This is probably because the bracelet design is not only sturdy, but TIMELESS. I don't think anyone can look at the earlier bracelets of the Breitling above and say it's "timeless". (If you disagree, I'd love to see a high-end watch company with a similar bracelet on a current model watch). Rolex comes ahead in this department due to their lack of changes over the years. "I don't mind a watch that constantly drastically changes" is a horrible argument; with drastic changes come 1) higher repair costs due to the lack of production of parts due to old products being phased out, 2) a less number of second-hand/used/extra parts on the internet from less years of manufacturing, and 3) a steep decline in value (will be mentioned more later).

To be fair, I do understand that Breitling has watches like the Navitimer which have not changed as much, but then again I didn't bring it up because I can easily bring up the Rolex Submariner which even with a ceramic improvement still looks nearly the exact same. There is a link right here that has tons of shots of the different Breitlings over the years. Take a look at Rolexes over the same time period and compare for yourself.




Moving on, let's talk about what's inside these watches. Breitling uses lots of outsourced movements. Is that a bad thing? No. Is it a good thing? Yes, but not for Breitling. It's great for Swiss Army, etc, who also use the ETA/Valjoux movements and can say "Some Breitlings use the same movement". However, Breitling does not advertise "we tinkered a movement available in a $200 watch". When I bought a Lexus, I never heard the salesman tell me that the same engine is used in a current Toyota model. Infiniti used the same G35 engine in the FX35 and M35, and now uses the G37 engine in the M37. Also, swing by the Nissan dealer to see that those engines are in new models too.

Again, I'll stress THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. Go with what works right? Nissan/Infiniti and Toyota/Lexus make reliable cars. But people buy the Lexus and Infiniti over the lower lines because of the added features and different exteriors: just like Breitling owners over other swiss brands. Leave cost and status out of it, it's irrelevant.

Now, go check out a BMW dealership- they advertise that every part of their car is BMW and BMW only. To those who say this is not a good thing or "it doesn't matter", well I disagree. I was watching a thing on the BBC comparing bakeries in London...and the narrator expressed her anger at how a local bakery was taking pre-mixed bread from a grocery store, cooking it, and selling it for an exponential multiple of the cost. Does that not appall you? How about Aquafina using tapwater in their bottled water? When the majority of people pay good money for something, they like to feel like it was worth it. I don't feel that way when I pay thousands of dollars for a Breitling or Panerai or any other watch with a widely distributed movement. This is because there is really no different in outcome. If there was a difference in quality/reliability of the movements, then this whole argument would be shot.

In the Lexus/BMW argument, I am really starting to prefer Lexus because its my experience that my Lexus cars are more reliable. My BMWs seem to have more problems, despite everything being "in-house". But Rolex and Breitling are different...both are COSC certified and incredibly reliable. Therefore, I think the edge in this argument also goes to Rolex.




I realized I said "money" a lot in that last point. To me, long-term value IS important in a watch. Look on ebay or any watch forum...how come Breitling value as a percentage of MSRP is significantly lower than the Rolex value? Part of it is the company itself and their policies, but the majority is the result of the points I highlighted above. I just mentioned BMW's keep their value more over time than any other company. Is this a coincidence? No, it's the combination of a less drastic change in models over the years and a history of universal, all in-house construction. No one likes depreciation, some people just care less about it than others. Therefore, Rolex wins in this department as well.


To me, Rolex is all around a better watch. After all this thought, there is almost no comparison at all. So in the answer to the argument "Breitling vs. Rolex", Rolex is a CLEAR winner when you look at it objectively. When you take in subjectivity, such as "Breitling is too blingy" or "everyone has a Rolex" or "______ advertises too much or too lame", then everyone has their own opinions. Status should be irrelevant too; we are watch nuts, not socialites. Either of these watches on your wrist signifies you have either a) some discretionary income or b) asinine priorities. With these companies, the "status" is in the cash value, i.e. a Breitling Bentley is "better" than a datejust and a Daytona is "better" than a Colt GMT. I feel this is common sense whatever your social circle may be.

So while I love my Rolexes, I bought my dad a Breitling Bentley GT and my mom a Chrono Cockpit. They both loved the look of each one and I feel that it was money well spent. So while they don't care for the Rolex product line, they will never say Breitling is a better watch. Because it's not.

[moby33]

Wow...I would hate to think what it would look like if you didn't sum it up so "directly"!

Originally Posted by clubbyjones

I have spent far too much time in my life thinking about this exact question. Literally, I've spent days thinking about this (made me think I had OCD!!) I'm going to try to sum it up as directly and objectively as possible.

I've owned 13 different Rolex models and 9 Breitling models in the past four years.

First off, let's be clear that these are the two most recognized luxury watch companies in the US. Forget IWC, Tag, or even Omega, if you were going to open up a higher end watch store these would be the first two companies you would talk to in order to maximize the number of customers that would come in the store. This is why jewelers put pictures of Rolexes on billboards and have their name next to the giant Breitling ad in the magazines.

So after leaving out comparisons to other brands, lets leave out the marketing campaigns as well. Car and Driver does not post the commercials for the cars in their comparison tests, and as "watch nuts" we should do the same with our obsessions. It would be more appropriate to comment on the target audience OF the marketing rather than the marketing itself, similar to how Jeremy Clarkson and Richard Hammond comment on the typical drivers of the cars rather than the commercials and advertising styles of the companies.

Now, let's look at how exactly each company changes their watches over the years:

I picked these two models because these are, in my book, two "tool" watches. On the Breitling side, I see radical bracelet changes. On the Rolex side, I see the same bracelet (except the polish linked on the IIc, which many people have restored to the original brushed finish anyways). Both have a similar amount of facelifts over the years, which I don't think anyone thinks is a bad thing. I like the fact that the GMT IIc I'm wearing is quite similar to the original GMT designed for airline pilots in the 50s. This is probably because the bracelet design is not only sturdy, but TIMELESS. I don't think anyone can look at the earlier bracelets of the Breitling above and say it's "timeless". (If you disagree, I'd love to see a high-end watch company with a similar bracelet on a current model watch). Rolex comes ahead in this department due to their lack of changes over the years. "I don't mind a watch that constantly drastically changes" is a horrible argument; with drastic changes come 1) higher repair costs due to the lack of production of parts due to old products being phased out, 2) a less number of second-hand/used/extra parts on the internet from less years of manufacturing, and 3) a steep decline in value (will be mentioned more later).

To be fair, I do understand that Breitling has watches like the Navitimer which have not changed as much, but then again I didn't bring it up because I can easily bring up the Rolex Submariner which even with a ceramic improvement still looks nearly the exact same. There is a link right here that has tons of shots of the different Breitlings over the years. Take a look at Rolexes over the same time period and compare for yourself.




Moving on, let's talk about what's inside these watches. Breitling uses lots of outsourced movements. Is that a bad thing? No. Is it a good thing? Yes, but not for Breitling. It's great for Swiss Army, etc, who also use the ETA/Valjoux movements and can say "Some Breitlings use the same movement". However, Breitling does not advertise "we tinkered a movement available in a $200 watch". When I bought a Lexus, I never heard the salesman tell me that the same engine is used in a current Toyota model. Infiniti used the same G35 engine in the FX35 and M35, and now uses the G37 engine in the M37. Also, swing by the Nissan dealer to see that those engines are in new models too.

Again, I'll stress THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. Go with what works right? Nissan/Infiniti and Toyota/Lexus make reliable cars. But people buy the Lexus and Infiniti over the lower lines because of the added features and different exteriors: just like Breitling owners over other swiss brands. Leave cost and status out of it, it's irrelevant.

Now, go check out a BMW dealership- they advertise that every part of their car is BMW and BMW only. To those who say this is not a good thing or "it doesn't matter", well I disagree. I was watching a thing on the BBC comparing bakeries in London...and the narrator expressed her anger at how a local bakery was taking pre-mixed bread from a grocery store, cooking it, and selling it for an exponential multiple of the cost. Does that not appall you? How about Aquafina using tapwater in their bottled water? When the majority of people pay good money for something, they like to feel like it was worth it. I don't feel that way when I pay thousands of dollars for a Breitling or Panerai or any other watch with a widely distributed movement. This is because there is really no different in outcome. If there was a difference in quality/reliability of the movements, then this whole argument would be shot.

In the Lexus/BMW argument, I am really starting to prefer Lexus because its my experience that my Lexus cars are more reliable. My BMWs seem to have more problems, despite everything being "in-house". But Rolex and Breitling are different...both are COSC certified and incredibly reliable. Therefore, I think the edge in this argument also goes to Rolex.




I realized I said "money" a lot in that last point. To me, long-term value IS important in a watch. Look on ebay or any watch forum...how come Breitling value as a percentage of MSRP is significantly lower than the Rolex value? Part of it is the company itself and their policies, but the majority is the result of the points I highlighted above. I just mentioned BMW's keep their value more over time than any other company. Is this a coincidence? No, it's the combination of a less drastic change in models over the years and a history of universal, all in-house construction. No one likes depreciation, some people just care less about it than others. Therefore, Rolex wins in this department as well.


To me, Rolex is all around a better watch. After all this thought, there is almost no comparison at all. So in the answer to the argument "Breitling vs. Rolex", Rolex is a CLEAR winner when you look at it objectively. When you take in subjectivity, such as "Breitling is too blingy" or "everyone has a Rolex" or "______ advertises too much or too lame", then everyone has their own opinions. Status should be irrelevant too; we are watch nuts, not socialites. Either of these watches on your wrist signifies you have either a) some discretionary income or b) asinine priorities. With these companies, the "status" is in the cash value, i.e. a Breitling Bentley is "better" than a datejust and a Daytona is "better" than a Colt GMT. I feel this is common sense whatever your social circle may be.

So while I love my Rolexes, I bought my dad a Breitling Bentley GT and my mom a Chrono Cockpit. They both loved the look of each one and I feel that it was money well spent. So while they don't care for the Rolex product line, they will never say Breitling is a better watch. Because it's not.

[sleddog]

Boy oh boy this is an old thread that won't die....

So many varying opinions on the topic...and understandable!! A huge following for both examples with a deep history on both sides!!

That said,and as I said in post 44,it's apples and oranges people!! Both make a great watch,but that's where it ends....Each brand is in their own league with different tastes and asthetics....let's agree to disagree!! and co-exist together.

[C. Davidson]

Could be wrong, but I think this is a general breakdown of points of sale in the US: (this keeps the exclusivity angle in perspective)

Breitling = 300
Rolex = 800

I love both brands.

And thanks to clubbyjones for your post, very informative.

[BarkMaster]

I've always liked the Breitling line for large, agressive looking watches.

I wouldn't mind owning one or two, for sure.

But in the end, I saved my money for a Rolex.

[Sixxgrand1]

I own both. Love them both. Different approaches - both winners. Owned 5 Omega's - fell out of love with them all.

[bannedalso]

Originally Posted by clubbyjones

Moving on, let's talk about what's inside these watches. Breitling uses lots of outsourced movements. Is that a bad thing? No. Is it a good thing? Yes, but not for Breitling. It's great for Swiss Army, etc, who also use the ETA/Valjoux movements and can say "Some Breitlings use the same movement". However, Breitling does not advertise "we tinkered a movement available in a $200 watch". When I bought a Lexus, I never heard the salesman tell me that the same engine is used in a current Toyota model. Infiniti used the same G35 engine in the FX35 and M35, and now uses the G37 engine in the M37. Also, swing by the Nissan dealer to see that those engines are in new models too.

Again, I'll stress THIS IS NOT A BAD THING. Go with what works right? Nissan/Infiniti and Toyota/Lexus make reliable cars. But people buy the Lexus and Infiniti over the lower lines because of the added features and different exteriors: just like Breitling owners over other swiss brands. Leave cost and status out of it, it's irrelevant.

A lot of Breitling movements are BASED on ETA or Valjoux but are actually PRODUCED in house to meet the demand and quality control demanded by Breitling...most people don't know that.

[James M]

My Superocean feels more substantial than my Sub but doesn't have that special feel the Sub does and I never wear it now.

I miss my Navitimer, I had a Montbrillant Datora for a few years and that was a beautifully made watch.

[007Sub]

I just bought a Breitling I've always been fond of: a 2002 Blackbird Special Edition. Its the one with the particularly sharp angled bracelet links and grooves in the bezel.

In many ways, its very much like my sub: Matte black dial, Brushed Stailess Steel. Sporty yet refined. BUT in many ways its very different. I love my sub and do beleive that its the worlds perfect watch, however, i find the breitling filling a different type of watch owning experience. First; im enjoying the fact that it has a chronometer function. Also, i like how heavy it is. The watch feels substantial; and looks very masculine. I like that.

Though the sub in actuality is probably a tougher watch, the Breitling gives off the appearance and feel of being stronger and more durable. I also like the anti-reflective coating Breitling puts on their crystals.

Still, at the end of the day, the Rolex Submariner... is ... well the Rolex Submariner; An icon... A watch that has been copied and emulated for over 50 years. Moreover, like Porsche, I like the fact that Rolex took one design and more or less stuck with it, making only slight adjustments through the years (though i hate the gloss dials on the new watches). I admire the fact that they respect their heritage and tradition.

This Breitling model was only made for 2 years in this particular (angular) form. A shame that they didn't stick with it. The new Blackbird is pretty ugly in my oppinion.

Anyway, here are some photos of these two matte dial, SS titans:

[Navitimer]

I own many Breitling watches, used to be 15,5 Omegas and 3 Tags. I tried hard to buy Rolex, just could not buy even one because Rolex Replica looks as good as the real Rolex. I respect Rolex, but when Rolex dealer complemented my replica Rolex as a great watch, I just could not spend a few thousands on that brand....

If Rolex offer varieties of designs I may consider Rolex, but after all, Rolex are well respected Brand