Do not buy from SwissWatchExpo

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by topcat28

...my bold...

New here, and no expert, but is it just me, or are these two points not somewhat at odds?

Sure are.

[Tridor]

How anyone can defend these guys is beyond me. Given what's been said here, there should be enough reason to dissuade anyone from purchasing from them. As a community and individually, we here at TRF are at risk of being boondoggled and misled. IMHO, anyone who purchases from this seller, knowing what they now know, does so at their own peril.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Tridor

How anyone can defend these guys is beyond me. Given what's been said here, there should be enough reason to dissuade anyone from purchasing from them. As a community and individually, we here at TRF are at risk of being boondoggled and misled. IMHO, anyone who purchases from this seller, knowing what they now know, does so at their own peril.

Equally amazing is the rational some have used to defend SWE.

[bewithabob]

Well this seems to be a mixed bag, with the total in the loss column.

The negative issues seem numerous with misleading advertising on free shipping, the satisfaction guarantee, the price match guarantee, the use of the word ORIGINAL, the non disclosure of missing links (claiming the photo evidence), the 'buyer beware' mentality, the YELLING (!) go beyond issues of misrepresentations to rudeness…all this adds up to proceed with caution when it comes to this seller.

It seems to me that when your radar as an experienced buyer, let alone as a courteous human being is sending you mixed messages, don't ignore it. Too many red flares on this transaction to ignore.

A seller who doesn't care enough about his reputation to let these things happen is not the kind of person I would choose to business with.

I think the lesson here for all of us is pretty clear: if you are getting mixed messages, call it off before it's too late. Don't let your desire fool you into overlooking the obvious. If you have suspicions that something is wrong and you proceed anyway…that is a bad situation but it's even worse if one knows that it could have been avoided.

Not long ago, I made inquiries of a seller on this forum about the condition and history of the piece he was selling. He was initially unresponsive, so I reached out a second time, and then he refused to answer all my questions. That is a serious red flag, and I don't care if he did have some history of selling to people that I do not know on other sites, I just walked away. Don't ignore bad signs, ladies and gentlemen. Just step away.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by 2th DR

Equally amazing is the rational some have used to defend SWE.

I can easily see both sides of this situation and I put it to you that the reason you're so amazed is that you are biased towards your point of view.

I have encountered many dozens of awful situations regarding buyers/sellers, many of which were behind-the-scenes only and many of which involved the total loss of $x,xxx.xx or more.

This isn't one of them yet your title is quite specific.

There's no "My experience with Seller", it's a straight in "Do not deal with Seller" damnation.

The key point is the seller specifying that the watch would fit a 7.5" wrist and a great big clear picture of the 11 link watch with a ruler measuring the watch length at 7.5" is shown.

You say that the seller should have specified "two links missing" in his description yet your 11 link GMT FS is stated as complete.

Can't have it both ways, not fairly at least. I also felt almost certain that a period full-linked example would have 12 links and fit an 8" wrist.

I'm also puzzled by the "premium" statement. Premium over what? It seems a fair price for a lovely example. Only $700 more than your asking price for your SS GMT.

I'm a little amazed that you are amazed that people can see the two sides of this argument with no clear "winner" on show.

I'm also a little amazed that the seller didn't just throw a link in the mail, just to kill this thread dead.

Stubborn, perhaps.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

I can easily see both sides of this situation and I put it to you that the reason you're so amazed is that you are biased towards your point of view.

I have encountered many dozens of awful situations regarding buyers/sellers, many of which were behind-the-scenes only and many of which involved the total loss of $x,xxx.xx or more.

This isn't one of them yet your title is quite specific.

There's no "My experience with Seller", it's a straight in "Do not deal with Seller" damnation.

The key point is the seller specifying that the watch would fit a 7.5" wrist and a great big clear picture of the 11 link watch with a ruler measuring the watch length at 7.5" is shown.

You say that the seller should have specified "two links missing" in his description yet your 11 link GMT FS is stated as complete.

Can't have it both ways, not fairly at least. I also felt almost certain that a period full-linked example would have 12 links and fit an 8" wrist.

I'm also puzzled by the "premium" statement. Premium over what? It seems a fair price for a lovely example. Only $700 more than your asking price for your SS GMT.

I'm a little amazed that you are amazed that people can see the two sides of this argument with no clear "winner" on show.

I'm also a little amazed that the seller didn't just throw a link in the mail, just to kill this thread dead.

Stubborn, perhaps.

My ad is the complete opposite of theirs. Although my photos show 11 links, it comes COMPLETE with 13. Just as it doesn't show boxes and papers in the photos but IT DOES come with them. If I had no intention of selling those, I would have stated that.

[2th Dr]

Oh, and my Pepsi is in much better condition that this Root beer, is a later series, AND comes with ALL the links. Also, we all know SS commands a higher resale price than TT.

[Tridor]

Let's just be clear here ... The buyer is the victim here, NOT the seller.

[gimpex]

Originally Posted by 2th DR

My ad is the complete opposite of theirs. Although my photos show 11 links, it comes COMPLETE with 13. Just as it doesn't show boxes and papers in the photos but IT DOES come with them. If I had no intention of selling those, I would have stated that.

Your advert does not say complete or 13 links - I for one would not expect it to include more than what you say and show . If I was the buyer , and it didn't fit , I sure would feel a little miffed once I found out that links were removed , but I am not sure I would expect you to send me the extra links. The only reason I can assume now that you would in fact include more than is mentioned is because you say so and due to your high score post and good standing with the rest of community here.

Originally Posted by 2th DR

Oh, and my Pepsi is in much better condition that this Root beer, is a later series, AND comes with ALL the links. Also, we all know SS commands a higher resale price than TT.

Having read the whole thread , you mention the premium you paid quite a few times , and you say it's not buyers remorse / unhappiness with the price , but you keep talking about how high the price was , and now you continue to justify that. If your watch is in much better shape AND a later series AND It is known that SS commands a higher resale price than TT , do you feel you have overpaid ? Alternatively why would you want to sell your watch at way below apparent reasonable value ? And why is it withdrawn a day after listing ?

Lastly , for the record , if it was me , I would have tried to fix you up when you first called. Either go 50/50 as suggested earlier or some other plan. Shouting would probably not be high on the list of things to do. Looking at it from the sellers side , damage is done now. Even if he drops a few $$ to buy you the links , those who have decided against the seller would probably not deal with him anyway.

Just my thoughts from a relative newcomer's perspective.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by gimpex

Having read the whole thread , you mention the premium you paid quite a few times , and you say it's not buyers remorse / unhappiness with the price , but you keep talking about how high the price was , and now you continue to justify that. If your watch is in much better shape AND a later series AND It is known that SS commands a higher resale price than TT , do you feel you have overpaid ? Alternatively why would you want to sell your watch at way below apparent reasonable value ? And why is it withdrawn a day after listing ?

I feel I overpaid for a watch that's missing two TT links, which are not cheap. And who said I was selling mine way below reasonable value? On the contrary, the price is fair market value... Do some homework. I don't need to explain why I withdrew the sale, but if you must know, my wife said I was crazy to sell a watch that is no longer in production and is in such pristine condition! And if you did your homework, you would see the watch was for sale longer than one day, not that that's at all relevant.

[DARK_KNIGHT]

I've certainly learned (thanks to this thread), that I should specifically ask the amount of links included when I buy a (used) watch. I had never thought of asking that before.

I actually took my sub off just now to count the links and sans clasp, there are 10 links. Odd how it takes something like this to learn things I should have already known (innate knowledge).

[gimpex]

Originally Posted by DARK_KNIGHT

I've certainly learned (thanks to this thread), that I should specifically ask the amount of links included when I buy a (used) watch. I had never thought of asking that before.

I actually took my sub off just now to count the links and sans clasp, there are 10 links. Odd how it takes something like this to learn things I should have already known (innate knowledge).

Did the same pulled out the few watches I have and counted the links.

The forum is doing its job thou , educating the masses ;)

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by DARK_KNIGHT

I've certainly learned (thanks to this thread), that I should specifically ask the amount of links included when I buy a (used) watch. I had never thought of asking that before.

I actually took my sub off just now to count the links and sans clasp, there are 10 links. Odd how it takes something like this to learn things I should have already known (innate knowledge).

At least there are going to be people who will benefit from this thread, so no matter what, it won't be a total loss.

[gimpex]

Originally Posted by 2th DR

I feel I overpaid for a watch that's missing two TT links, which are not cheap. And who said I was selling mine way below reasonable value? On the contrary, the price is fair market value... Do some homework. I don't need to explain why I withdrew the sale, but if you must know, my wife said I was crazy to sell a watch that is no longer in production and is in such pristine condition! And if you did your homework, you would see the watch was for sale longer than one day, not that that's at all relevant.

I am not going to argue with you , I was just stating my thoughts and my reasoning based on my perception of the facts - if one watch is better it should be higher priced.

Of course you don't need to explain - it was again a question in my mind.

Ad was from 6th to 7th April ( hence my 1 day comment ) , but yes it was not 24 but some 45 or 46 hours - so technically you are right, but it's a bit like this whole affair - about perceptions/ technicalities etc.


Link inserted http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=226907

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by gimpex

I am not going to argue with you , I was just stating my thoughts and my reasoning based on my perception of the facts - if one watch is better it should be higher priced.

Of course you don't need to explain - it was again a question in my mind.

Ad was from 6th to 7th April ( hence my 1 day comment ) , but yes it was not 24 but some 45 or 46 hours - so technically you are right, but it's a bit like this whole affair - about perceptions/ technicalities etc.

Again, not that its relevant, but I posted my watch for sale April 2nd.

[Welshwatchman]

It does perplex me when a seller just does nothing when a little goodwill gesture will put the matter to bed.

We need to keep this on the straight and narrow in the meantime to avoid it hitting the bin and defeating the object of the OP.

If someone in the trade can send the seller a quick email, perhaps a little late action could save the day.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

It does perplex me when a seller just does nothing when a little goodwill gesture will put the matter to bed.

We need to keep this on the straight and narrow in the meantime to avoid it hitting the bin and defeating the object of the OP.

If someone in the trade can send the seller a quick email, perhaps a little late action could save the day.

Thank you Paul!

[Zirotti]

Obviously the moderators need to go through each thread in the FS section now and audit the number of links with each bracelet.

[2th Dr]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Obviously the moderators need to go through each thread in the FS section now and audit the number of links with each bracelet.

That kind of remark is exactly what Paul was talking about. Totally irrelevant and unhelpful.

[Zirotti]

Originally Posted by 2th DR

That kind of remark is exactly what Paul was talking about. Totally irrelevant and unhelpful.

I was actually being serious. They have the right to audit for tagged pics, etc.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

Obviously the moderators need to go through each thread in the FS section now and audit the number of links with each bracelet.

In truth we'd sooner close the whole FS section down and this one will also be redundant too.

I'm also being serious.

I'm all for give and take with a dash of reasonableness. I occasionally see it, very occasionally, sadly.

This one's an easy fix. Buyer and seller chat and compromise.

[gimpex]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

[COLOR="Blue"]
This one's an easy fix. Buyer and seller chat and compromise.

Given the time in your ( and my ) part of the world , best advice in the past few pages.

[Htab]

I feel for the buyer that he didn't get all the links. But at the end of the day i think it's the buyers responsibility to do his due dilligence and ask all necessary questions. I have bought many watches on the forum and that is one of the first questions I ask. I have asked the same question to all the trusted sellers here on the forum. I guess the moral of the story is to ask as many questions as possible. However I do think the seller should have just sent a link and handled it a lot better then he did. Good luck

[Rjwareagle]

It is frustrating when your expecting a complete bracelet and it's not. When I sell, I list what wrist size it will fit and also link count. I do not want any questions so I list both. I also included the illum on the dial, insert and hands. I would want to know that if I was buying. It's the little details that a big!!! Good luck with all of this

[Z-Sub]

Hi Mark,

I just saw this link and I feel your pain. I experienced the exact same thing a few months ago with 2 missing links but I'm jealous that you're getting more love from the forum than I did!! I'm not going to bring that thread up but it's there.

I didn't think to count the links last time I purchased a 16613 right here on TRF. The pictures provided were even harder to see than the ones for your GMT. Not only that, the watch was and still is running 15+ seconds fast a day and the AD said within COSC. I've brought it to 2 watch makers who states it needs full service and to RSC at Beverly Hills and RSC (just recently) thinks the watch was dropped or had a significant shock and something is off and needs full service.

When I contacted the seller, I was only asking for one link sent to me. I was thinking that I didn't ask about the # of links and he did not disclose that there are 2 missing links. I never asked to have 2 links sent and he refused. He also said I could have counted the links. In one of the email he sent, he also accused me of trying to extorting him as well. I could not wear the watch without one more link. Thanks to Greg ( Mosco) at least I can wear the watch now with the extra link Greg sent me.

Personally when I sell watches, I do and unless I overlooked, include either "full length bracelet" or 12 links (if one is missing for a standard oyster bracelet) to let the buyer know that. To me it's important to disclose and help the buyer who may or may not know as much about what's included when the watch came out of the factory.

As a seller, I will not and do not expect they buyer to count the links from the picture. to me the picture is to give a general idea of the cosmetic condition of the watch, no more.

I know that bad taste is like in your mouth and you have my full support.

[sherwin]

Originally Posted by Zirotti

I was actually being serious. They have the right to audit for tagged pics, etc.

does the watch have to be sent to the mod for clarification as well? afterall we have heard of people using one photo for the sale, and sending something else.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by sherwin

does the watch have to be sent to the mod for clarification as well?

I'm OK with that.

I promise to validate and return the watch within 24 months.

[Roley]

I'll Bump this thread to keep it on page #1 .. Do not buy from SwissWatchExpo.

[Gaijin]

Originally Posted by bewithabob

Well this seems to be a mixed bag, with the total in the loss column.

The negative issues seem numerous with misleading advertising on free shipping, the satisfaction guarantee, the price match guarantee, the use of the word ORIGINAL, the non disclosure of missing links (claiming the photo evidence), the 'buyer beware' mentality, the YELLING (!) go beyond issues of misrepresentations to rudeness…all this adds up to proceed with caution when it comes to this seller.

It seems to me that when your radar as an experienced buyer, let alone as a courteous human being is sending you mixed messages, don't ignore it. Too many red flares on this transaction to ignore.

A seller who doesn't care enough about his reputation to let these things happen is not the kind of person I would choose to business with.

I think the lesson here for all of us is pretty clear: if you are getting mixed messages, call it off before it's too late. Don't let your desire fool you into overlooking the obvious. If you have suspicions that something is wrong and you proceed anyway…that is a bad situation but it's even worse if one knows that it could have been avoided.

Not long ago, I made inquiries of a seller on this forum about the condition and history of the piece he was selling. He was initially unresponsive, so I reached out a second time, and then he refused to answer all my questions. That is a serious red flag, and I don't care if he did have some history of selling to people that I do not know on other sites, I just walked away. Don't ignore bad signs, ladies and gentlemen. Just step away.

Yea Bob, but them yelling at a customer on the phone who is calling swayed it for me. You bark at me when I am a customer and you have lost my business forever.

[Zirotti]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

I'm OK with that.

I promise to validate and return the watch within 24 months.

LOL. I like your style.