Taiwanese AP Collector got banned and sharing his story

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by APWorldTour

I don’t think he dislikes Royal Oaks any less, or else he wouldn’t even hesitate to sell off his collection. But would you still be interested in paying market price for watches knowing that the brand behind it cut off any direct relationship with you?

To further this point, there are people willing to pay msrp even when over market price just to purchase direct from the brand - for multiple reasons. For precisely that relationship with the brand, as well as peace of mind knowing what you’re buying is brand new coming straight from the manufacture.

Can you be more specific, what brand are people willing to pay MSRP for even when it's above market price?
I agree that there's a certain peace of mind that comes with knowing that one's watch is real because you bought it from the Boutique but, in this case, the rejected Sunny actually traded a watch he bought directly from AP for one in the Secondary market, so that must not be a concern of his.

[APWorldTour]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Can you be more specific, what brand are people willing to pay MSRP for even when it's above market price?
I agree that there's a certain peace of mind that comes with knowing that one's watch is real because you bought it from the Boutique but, in this case, the rejected Sunny actually traded a watch he bought directly from AP for one in the Secondary market, so that must not be a concern of his.

Lots of examples come to mind, but the most obvious would be Code 1159, ROO of which there have been many incomings lately here on TRF, most non Nautilus/Aquanaut PP (5205, 5212, grand comp, etc) most Lange (Lange 1, even 1815 chronos and Datographs)… anyways point being that even before all ROs were going over msrp people were still buying from boutiques/ADs for a reason.

Sunny stated I believe that he traded for those models on the market because they were discontinued, which personally is the only time I would buy secondary.

All that being said, just to be clear I don’t like the guy nor his attitude, I just don’t think AP is in the right in this case to blacklist.

[APWorldTour]

Update: China edition QP just posted on Moda… could it be?

[dmash]

Originally Posted by APWorldTour

Update: China edition QP just posted on Moda… could it be?

Hahahaha ‘Sunny Special’

[Mr.GL]

Originally Posted by APWorldTour

Update: China edition QP just posted on Moda… could it be?

Meant for his supporters to buy. This was sunny piece.

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[Mr.GL]

Originally Posted by Mr.GL

Meant for his supporters to buy. This was sunny piece.

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Maybe..... life is such a coincidence.

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[Mr.GL]

He is trying to justify his action and said he doesn't give a shit and a watch brand will not define who he is...blah. he sum up by saying, "Should I sell all my APs?

Just say the damn watches man.

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[Mr.GL]

Originally Posted by Mr.GL

He is trying to justify his action and said he doesn't give a shit and a watch brand will not define who he is...blah. he sum up by saying, "Should I sell all my APs?

Just say the damn watches man.

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Sell*

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[dauster]

Originally Posted by cascavel

Can you be more specific, what brand are people willing to pay MSRP for even when it's above market price?
I agree that there's a certain peace of mind that comes with knowing that one's watch is real because you bought it from the Boutique but, in this case, the rejected Sunny actually traded a watch he bought directly from AP for one in the Secondary market, so that must not be a concern of his.

Plenty of people buy codes or dress watches from Patek at over market price directly from AD/ salon to build relationship.

Other than that pretty much all other brands like omega , JLC or Grand Seiko - plenty of people buy them from boutiques but could go grey and save significantly


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[AgentDouble07]

Unfortunately I have to report an annoying “incident” during a purchase with Loupe This. I am a returning customer having completed previously 2 auctions without any issue.
My 3rd purchase, the most expensive of all, was an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak 15202ST, one of the most iconic and well know watches in the world, $50,600, not a small sum.

The watch was advertised as complete with box and blank guarantee, and 12 pictures. Was rated 9 out of 10 for conditions “near-mint”, their report also added “Cases exhibits crisp surfaces and sharp chamfered edges.” Watch was identified at “Circa 2000”.

I am an avid collector and among many other luxury timepieces, I own already a 15202ST, different dial color, and my guarantee papers are also unsigned/unnamed, although they do report the details of the watch, its serial number, dial code and reference.
My other watch is an F serial number, full set with original box and documents, this watch is also an F serial number, they are 81 serial numbers away, which means they were produced weeks apart.

As I receive my box and unpack the content and read the serial, I immediately realized that both the box and the documents included with this watch were not belonging to this AP. The box was from a previous era, it even included a completely different number/serial sticker on a side, the papers/warranty were also from a previous era, without any detail of the reference, dial code or serial number.

The watch was not in near mint conditions, it had a very deep scratch on the bracelet that was not reported and most importantly was heavily polished, with edges rounded and not sharp as they should be and were advertised.

I immediately contact Loupe This letting them know about these issues and giving them the benefit of the doubt of a mistake in packing the box/documents. In summary they limited their reply to “watch is sold as is” and did not confront me in any way on the multiple misleading and wrong information about this listing, and the box/paper that were most likely purchased on eBay by consignor and tied to this watch.

I asked to return the watch, as I collect only full sets, or to obtain a 20% credit, as that is the value on average of box and papers. I told them I could not pay for a mistake they made.

Their last reply was including their attorney, after I told them I had to inform the DCA and the watch community of what happened.

Be aware, they pride themselves as experts, vetting and guaranteeing their timepieces, this time the made a big mistake, and even worse customer care. They lost a wealthy client, and I just warn you, hoping you do not fall into the same trap.

[CactusTreeFiddy]

Originally Posted by AgentDouble07

Unfortunately I have to report an annoying “incident” during a purchase with Loupe This. I am a returning customer having completed previously 2 auctions without any issue.
My 3rd purchase, the most expensive of all, was an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak 15202ST, one of the most iconic and well know watches in the world, $50,600, not a small sum.

The watch was advertised as complete with box and blank guarantee, and 12 pictures. Was rated 9 out of 10 for conditions “near-mint”, their report also added “Cases exhibits crisp surfaces and sharp chamfered edges.” Watch was identified at “Circa 2000”.

I am an avid collector and among many other luxury timepieces, I own already a 15202ST, different dial color, and my guarantee papers are also unsigned/unnamed, although they do report the details of the watch, its serial number, dial code and reference.
My other watch is an F serial number, full set with original box and documents, this watch is also an F serial number, they are 81 serial numbers away, which means they were produced weeks apart.

As I receive my box and unpack the content and read the serial, I immediately realized that both the box and the documents included with this watch were not belonging to this AP. The box was from a previous era, it even included a completely different number/serial sticker on a side, the papers/warranty were also from a previous era, without any detail of the reference, dial code or serial number.

The watch was not in near mint conditions, it had a very deep scratch on the bracelet that was not reported and most importantly was heavily polished, with edges rounded and not sharp as they should be and were advertised.

I immediately contact Loupe This letting them know about these issues and giving them the benefit of the doubt of a mistake in packing the box/documents. In summary they limited their reply to “watch is sold as is” and did not confront me in any way on the multiple misleading and wrong information about this listing, and the box/paper that were most likely purchased on eBay by consignor and tied to this watch.

I asked to return the watch, as I collect only full sets, or to obtain a 20% credit, as that is the value on average of box and papers. I told them I could not pay for a mistake they made.

Their last reply was including their attorney, after I told them I had to inform the DCA and the watch community of what happened.

Be aware, they pride themselves as experts, vetting and guaranteeing their timepieces, this time the made a big mistake, and even worse customer care. They lost a wealthy client, and I just warn you, hoping you do not fall into the same trap.

They sound like an absolute bunch of scumbags, I checked their website, and would never go near them in my life

Sorry you had to deal with that

[draken1]

DCA is Department of Consumer Affairs?

Where are they based? California?

[VogelPhoenix]

That sounds unfortunate, although what did they say before their "last reply"? Just "sold as is" or did they offer any resolution at all?

Unfortunately, crisp and sharp is in the eye of the beholder to some extent - some pictures of the pair of 15202s would be helpful. The wrong papers and box should be an open-and-shut case, however. One of the LoupeThis founders, Eric Ku, is pretty well known in watch circles - I'm a bit surprised they are not more pro-active to protect their reputation (other than putting their attorney in cc).

Might also make more sense to create a separate thread, but probably too late for this.

[agsstructures]

Originally Posted by AgentDouble07

Unfortunately I have to report an annoying “incident” during a purchase with Loupe This. I am a returning customer having completed previously 2 auctions without any issue.
My 3rd purchase, the most expensive of all, was an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak 15202ST, one of the most iconic and well know watches in the world, $50,600, not a small sum.

The watch was advertised as complete with box and blank guarantee, and 12 pictures. Was rated 9 out of 10 for conditions “near-mint”, their report also added “Cases exhibits crisp surfaces and sharp chamfered edges.” Watch was identified at “Circa 2000”.

I am an avid collector and among many other luxury timepieces, I own already a 15202ST, different dial color, and my guarantee papers are also unsigned/unnamed, although they do report the details of the watch, its serial number, dial code and reference.
My other watch is an F serial number, full set with original box and documents, this watch is also an F serial number, they are 81 serial numbers away, which means they were produced weeks apart.

As I receive my box and unpack the content and read the serial, I immediately realized that both the box and the documents included with this watch were not belonging to this AP. The box was from a previous era, it even included a completely different number/serial sticker on a side, the papers/warranty were also from a previous era, without any detail of the reference, dial code or serial number.

The watch was not in near mint conditions, it had a very deep scratch on the bracelet that was not reported and most importantly was heavily polished, with edges rounded and not sharp as they should be and were advertised.

I immediately contact Loupe This letting them know about these issues and giving them the benefit of the doubt of a mistake in packing the box/documents. In summary they limited their reply to “watch is sold as is” and did not confront me in any way on the multiple misleading and wrong information about this listing, and the box/paper that were most likely purchased on eBay by consignor and tied to this watch.

I asked to return the watch, as I collect only full sets, or to obtain a 20% credit, as that is the value on average of box and papers. I told them I could not pay for a mistake they made.

Their last reply was including their attorney, after I told them I had to inform the DCA and the watch community of what happened.

Be aware, they pride themselves as experts, vetting and guaranteeing their timepieces, this time the made a big mistake, and even worse customer care. They lost a wealthy client, and I just warn you, hoping you do not fall into the same trap.

I can’t imagine Eric Ku wouldn’t make this right given who he is in the watch community. The descriptions match The Keystone, everything is pretty much described as barely been worn with the original finish which I find ridiculous given how overpolished some of there watches are.

Good luck either way I hope they make it right.

[fumanku]

Hi Guys-

Infrequent poster here (but not as infrequent as the OP) but many if you guys know me.

OP complains about the watch and papers he received when the listing on the site had no less than 13 unedited images showing exactly what he was getting- including the papers and box that were included. In the description, it even mentioned that the papers included were blank. Not "open", but completely blank.

In an email exchange at the conclusion of the auction and prior to him sending payment, we again reiterate that the papers are completely blank and he still proceeds to send payment.

Rude emails commence once the watch is received, with the buyer, demanding $10k in compensation, further threatening to report us to the "DCA" and share with hundreds of thousands of internet people about us, then throwing shade at my business partner and myself in the process while continually throwing subtle insults at the operation. At this point we cease communication and let our attorney handle further communication on our behalf.

The website says several times "All Sales Final" and he further agreed upon this when he clicks the disclaimers during the bidding process. It couldn't be more clear. While we have in the past made concessions to make customers happy or to right a perceived wrong, this OP chose the threatening route to approach us and of course we do not negotiate with terrorists.

With literally thousands of transactions with happy buyers and sellers, we are confident in our track record and have nothing to hide.

[Ichiran]

Hi fumanku, what does it mean when the description for papers was left blank? Does it mean it has no papers or does it mean anything else in an auction? Sorry I'm not too familiar with auction SOP and terminology. Not siding any party with limited info and this is just my question.

[fumanku]

The papers are completely blank meaning nothing is on them. "Open" papers would mean that the watch information is printed on the papers but no date or buyer name.

The images in the sale show 13 pics of the watch and include the papers and box as well. Had the buyer had issue with either one the could have not bid or asked any further questions.

[vliberman]

Probably should be a separate thread… too important to not discuss… why even put it here????? Needs more info… damage to reputation is done… not cool if u ask me

[HMHM]

I think we have to give credit for Eric Ku for taking the proactive step in engaging publicly with OP and also defend his business and reputation. Many times a lot of companies or personalities hide behind corporate lingo and attorneys while avoiding having an open discussion about issues.

That being said, it’s also important for both sides to share their stories. OP clearly has an issue with the watch hence why he decided to air his grievances on TRF. While Eric is a huge personality in the watch world, it’s also important that OP’s view is not neglected in the process.

[VogelPhoenix]

I assume everybody knows that the listing can still be found on LoupeThis under recent results. So one can look at the pictures and form their own opinion on whether the watch looks crisp and sharp, and whether one could have identified the type of box from the pictures. I for one don't know know if the box could possibly era-correct or not, so will refrain from comments. Most of the watch does look quite crisp to me, except maybe the case chamfer on the 7 o'clock side.

[Willyjo]

This does sound dodgy. Thanks for sharing so others can avoid an unfortunate situation with LoupeThis.


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[huncho]

Originally Posted by vliberman

Probably should be a separate thread… too important to not discuss… why even put it here????? Needs more info… damage to reputation is done… not cool if u ask me

there is a separate thread, it's in the who's who section. not sure why he randomly posted in here

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

I assume everybody knows that the listing can still be found on LoupeThis under recent results. So one can look at the pictures and form their own opinion on whether the watch looks crisp and sharp, and whether one could have identified the type of box from the pictures. I for one don't know know if the box could possibly era-correct or not, so will refrain from comments. Most of the watch does look quite crisp to me, except maybe the case chamfer on the 7 o'clock side.

yeah have to agree with you, imo the photos aren't hiding anything regarding scratches or it being polished. condition looks pretty good to me but i'm not much of an expert on that era of APs to talk about how polished it is (if it is noticeably polished even?)

[drrd]

Originally Posted by Willyjo

This does sound dodgy. Thanks for sharing so others can avoid an unfortunate situation with LoupeThis.


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Dunno, seems more like an expensive how-to on reading an auction listing than actually ‘dodgy’.

I looked at the pics and description and I’m sure they’re sure that that would all stand up.

[dauster]

If this is it, it looks like a clean watch unless it did come with a bunch of scratches that are not visible here then I would understand OPs frustration. Unsure about correct era of the box but if it’s important to OP probably wise to check before buying it.

https://loupethis.com/auctions/audem...-jumbo-15202st


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[dauster]

Originally Posted by dauster

If this is it, it looks like a clean watch unless it did come with a bunch of scratches that are not visible here then I would understand OPs frustration. Unsure about correct era of the box but if it’s important to OP probably wise to check before buying it.

https://loupethis.com/auctions/audem...-jumbo-15202st


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If this is the scratch OP is talking about it’s clearly visible even though it took me a few times to check it out - scratch on the clasp next to AP logo




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[huncho]

Originally Posted by dauster

If this is the scratch OP is talking about it’s clearly visible even though it took me a few times to check it out - scratch on the clasp next to AP logo




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i think it was the big one at the top of your photo (2nd visible link from the top in the original pic). either way he's banned now so...

[CactusTreeFiddy]

Wonder why he was banned

[dauster]

Originally Posted by huncho

i think it was the big one at the top of your photo (2nd visible link from the top in the original pic). either way he's banned now so...

Interesting good eyes didn’t even catch that oh wells can’t blame the seller if it’s visible even if it takes a bit of zoom


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[conkers]

I have done multiple transactions with LoupeThis and have had an excellent experience on all occasions.

[trackingtime]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02JLFwOL-iQ

he sold all his AP for an RM67-01