32xx movement problem poll and data thread

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by stevecv

Two timing runs for my new 124270 FWIW.

The best-fit rates (about -0.2 to -0.3 sec/day) look very good. Did you change resting position(s) to see if you can obtain an overall positive rate for your 3230 caliber?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Me neither, can’t see anything. Which watch Ref. you are testing inside the gray bag? You test all 5 positions after full winding?

that would be a 228206 fully wound dial up showing only 265 amp... I think this is the first 3255 on this thread. No i'm going to go nuts if the watch goes funny, otherwise i have more important things to do.

[stevecv]

Originally Posted by saxo3

The best-fit rates (about -0.2 to -0.3 sec/day) look very good. Did you change resting position(s) to see if you can obtain an overall positive rate for your 3230 caliber?

No the watch is always dial up. For the sake of comparison I could begin to do crown up if that is what is recommended. Also, the watch is worn every single day, actively.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by stevecv

No the watch is always dial up. For the sake of comparison I could begin to do crown up if that is what is recommended. Also, the watch is worn every single day, actively.

try resting it dial down overnight.

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amanbra

that would be a 228206 fully wound dial up showing only 265 amp... I think this is the first 3255 on this thread. No i'm going to go nuts if the watch goes funny, otherwise i have more important things to do.

A Day-Date 40 Platinum with Blue Dial? Your watch is which year?
Yes, I think it is the first 3255 in this thread; 265 degrees after full winding is not impressive in DU position ...

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

A Day-Date 40 Platinum with Blue Dial? Your watch is which year?
Yes, I think it is the first 3255 in this thread; 265 degrees after full winding is not impressive in DU position ...

Got it 2 days ago, arrived in the country 2 days before that to the AD... Have a feeling this will be a problem movement... I'll report back if it is.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

A Day-Date 40 Platinum with Blue Dial? Your watch is which year?
Yes, I think it is the first 3255 in this thread; 265 degrees after full winding is not impressive in DU position ...

Saxo you might know the answer, maybe Charles, I asked a question in the tech section,

If 2 movements has the same lift angle and same SPD but showing different amplitudes, how the hell does the timegrapher know? It's only listening to ticks?

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Saxo you might know the answer, maybe Charles, I asked a question in the tech section,

If 2 movements has the same lift angle and same SPD but showing different amplitudes, how the hell does the timegrapher know? It's only listening to ticks?

Yes, in (very) simple words a timegrapher has a microphone, which listens to the noise of a watch movement. The beat noise of the so-called Swiss lever escapement consists of three different pulses, which are detected by the microphone. By evaluating the sounds, one can measure or determine the properties of a mechanical watch, i.e. its rate, beat error, and amplitude.

The lift angle is given by the construction of the movement and is entered as a parameter to the timegrapher setting. One must know the lift angle to determine the amplitude correctly.

For an optimal transmission of sound, between the movement and the timegrapher microphone, normally the microphone should be in good mechanical contact with the watch crown.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Yes, in (very) simple words a timegrapher has a microphone, which listens to the noise of a watch movement. The beat noise of the so-called Swiss lever escapement consists of three different pulses, which are detected by the microphone. By evaluating the sounds, one can measure or determine the properties of a mechanical watch, i.e. its rate, beat error, and amplitude.

The lift angle is given by the construction of the movement and is entered as a parameter to the timegrapher setting. One must know the lift angle to determine the amplitude correctly.

For an optimal transmission of sound, between the movement and the timegrapher microphone, normally the microphone should be in good mechanical contact with the watch crown.

Right so multiple sounds within the tick. Makes sense.

Yes I understand for the best reading there would be not cloth or better yet not case back. That’s not happening with my dd I’m afraid.

Because of my concern I ducked up to the attic and did a check before I slept. This is at the 25 hour mark (25 hours and 15 mins from full wind to be precise) so the watch is in spec. Maybe it’s just a low amp example? I'll do more testing when I also do my exp 1 over the christmas break when i'm doing nothing else.






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[saxo3]

If you want to bring a touch of systematics into your measurements then you need to do a full winding of the caliber and measure rates and amplitudes in 5 positions. This gives you a reference data set for this new watch. If you are a Pro then you would repeat this whole process 24 hours later.

After, or better before, you could concentrate on taking some good photos of your setup, maybe switching lights on would help and focussing your camera may help a bit too.

It’s important to see what the setup is, the settings, and obviously the results. Not clear how you concluded that the watch you tested is within specs.

You could also write the results on a piece of paper and keep it for a later comparison. Good luck!

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

If you want to bring a touch of systematics into your measurements then you need to do a full winding of the caliber and measure rates and amplitudes in 5 positions. This gives you a reference data set for this new watch. If you are a Pro then you would repeat this whole process 24 hours later.

After, or better before, you could concentrate on taking some good photos of your setup, maybe switching lights on would help and focussing your camera may help a bit too.

It’s important to see what the setup is, the settings, and obviously the results. Not clear how you concluded that the watch you tested is within specs.

You could also write the results on a piece of paper and keep it for a later comparison. Good luck!

Yes when I do this over the christmas break it won't be in the attic, and it will be 5 positions at full and 24.

What I normally do is when i get a new watch I slap it on the machine at full wind DU and just see where it's at. for the DD as the DU amp was low I did a test the next day just to see if it was in spec. For me this is in spec as for CU and CD after 24 hours it's still above 200. Yes i'd need to check all other vert positions to be 100% sure but at the moment this is fine for me to not immediately take it back to the AD.

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by amanbra

how the hell does the timegrapher know? It's only listening to ticks?

Yes, listening to ticks.
Then applying a basic mathematical equation that's overseen by software to display real time results.
Don't forget, for any given frequency of an individual movement design there are ideally X amount of ticks over a given period of time and the mic hears when the escapement locks and unlocks.
The rest of it comes down to the algorithms in the machine.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Dirt

Yes, listening to ticks.
Then applying a basic mathematical equation that's overseen by software to display real time results.
Don't forget, for any given frequency of an individual movement design there are ideally X amount of ticks over a given period of time and the mic hears when the escapement locks and unlocks.
The rest of it comes down to the algorithms in the machine.

Yeah the issue was i thought there were only two ticks per full oscillation. Seems like with in the tick there are two other sounds that give away the velocity of the balance wheel...

I love learning this stuff...

[Onequik135i]

Here’s a quick reading of my 126610LN purchased new April of this year. I realize the L/A is set at 52 but if I’m not mistaken you simply add 7 degrees to the ampltitude shown.


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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by Onequik135i

Here’s a quick reading of my 126610LN purchased new April of this year. I realize the L/A is set at 52 but if I’m not mistaken you simply add 7 degrees to the ampltitude shown.


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Measure all 5 positions after full winding using 53 degrees lift angle, crown towards the microphone ...

[502 to Right]

I just found this thread. I don't have data to share but my Rolex 126200 watch with the 3235 movement had to be serviced under warranty as my AD watchmaker said it was running under warranted amplitude. It was also losing about 6 seconds a day on wrist. I bought it new from my AD in March of 2020 and it had to be serviced in February of 2021.

I have since sold the watch and will not buy another 32XX watch until this s*** gets figured out.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

I just found this thread. I don't have data to share but my Rolex 126200 watch with the 3235 movement had to be serviced under warranty as my AD watchmaker said it was running under warranted amplitude. It was also losing about 6 seconds a day on wrist. I bought it new from my AD in March of 2020 and it had to be serviced in February of 2021.

I have since sold the watch and will not buy another 32XX watch until this s*** gets figured out.

don't blame you, I moved a 126655 that started showing issues... The one beauty of Rolex is it's super easy to move...

[saxo3]

Originally Posted by 502 to Right

I just found this thread. I don't have data to share but my Rolex 126200 watch with the 3235 movement had to be serviced under warranty as my AD watchmaker said it was running under warranted amplitude. It was also losing about 6 seconds a day on wrist. I bought it new from my AD in March of 2020 and it had to be serviced in February of 2021.

I have since sold the watch and will not buy another 32XX watch until this s*** gets figured out.

Sorry to hear but interesting … Another sick 3235 movement in a Datejust 36 which was sold in 2020, i.e. 4 years after the launch of this caliber in 2016.

[Mellow-Yellow]

Respectfully, is it interesting?
I'm sure there were plenty of 31xxs that had issues at the four year point... and the fifth, sixth, seventh etc. etc.
before the 32xx was released I saw, 'My watch is running slow, fast... My watch has been returned to RSC...' type threads regularly.
Anyway, just a thought.

[subcsteve]

Recently bought a Weishi timegrapher and put 4 watches on:

all the 31xx movements were -1 with an amplitude of 290-300 and my recent (purchased March) 32xx is -1 but max amplitude of 260 and drops to -2/3 and sub 250 amplitude after a couple of hours not on the wrist.

If I had a choice I would go 31xx every time as the additional power reserve doesn't interest me in the slightest.

I'll keep monitoring the 32xx over the next year to see if stays in spec.

[amanbra]

Back from warranty. Let’s see how it goes this time. Never scene this watch with such a high amp before so this is a good start. Also I asked them to set it a tad fast so that’s great also.




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[Annan]

Hope this time the fix is permanent. I'd like to buy another new DJ but after having two that had the 3235 issue I'm still very hesitant to take another chance.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by Annan

Hope this time the fix is permanent. I'd like to buy another new DJ but after having two that had the 3235 issue I'm still very hesitant to take another chance.

This movement is running so differently to before i wouldn’t be shocked if they just swapped the movement out. Like it’s very different… after the first warranty service it came back 260 amp dial up 0spd which was how the watches brand new. Now sometimes it’s hitting 290 plus.


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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amanbra

Back from warranty. Let’s see how it goes this time. Never scene this watch with such a high amp before so this is a good start. Also I asked them to set it a tad fast so that’s great also.




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Which watch Ref.?
Date of purchase?
First or second repair?
Warranty was done where?
Rate, Amplitude, Beat Error of all 5 positions?
For comparison, data before warranty?

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by saxo3

Which watch Ref.?
Date of purchase?
First or second repair?
Warranty was done where?
Rate, Amplitude, Beat Error of all 5 positions?
For comparison, data before warranty?

126200

Sept 2019 purchase

Second warranty Sydney rsc

-6 amp 240 dial up and -12 amp 190 crown up full wind before warranty 2.

Now +3 at 280 dial up 0 at 240 crown up.

Might do all five positions over Christmas as I am worried the issue will return on this one.


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[saxo3]

Originally Posted by amanbra

126200

Sept 2019 purchase

Second warranty Sydney rsc

-6 amp 240 dial up and -12 amp 190 crown up full wind before warranty 2.

Now +3 at 280 dial up 0 at 240 crown up.

Might do all five positions over Christmas as I am worried the issue will return on this one.


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Good summary.
I do recommend the 5 positions:
(1) after full winding and 15 min wait.
(2) after 24 hours at rest in dial up.

[saxo3]

For everbody who wants to join this thread with systematic 32xx measurement data.

A detailed step by step timegrapher measurement procedure one can find in this thread in posts #1425 and #771

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1425

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...&postcount=771

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by saxo3

For everbody who wants to join this thread with systematic 32xx measurement data.

A detailed step by step timegrapher measurement procedure one can find in this thread in posts #1425 and #771

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1425

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...&postcount=771

Essential reading and long overdue for a refresher

[vesnyder]

New to this thread, but wanted to post so that I am seeing the same issues.

[amanbra]

Originally Posted by vesnyder

New to this thread, but wanted to post so that I am seeing the same issues.

Tells about the watch, what model and when did you purchase?