A $2 Tudor (trash or treasure?)

[mkruger311]

I've just skimmed these posts so have not fully read into the whole story. I am not an active eBay seller but have sold a few watches on there in the past.

It seems highly un-likely that eBay would have released funds back to the seller, along with requiring the buyer to return the watch. Does eBay know the original seller has the item as well?

OP, you should return the buyer's funds- regardless if he was a pain to work with. You now have your merchandise and the buyers funds. It's the morally correct thing to do. Give the guy his money back. I honestly cannot believe that eBay allowed you to keep the buyers money (could have been a administrative error on their end?)

I'm sure you have his PayPal address. A simple gifted payment of his money along with a sorry for your trouble would go a long way. Take the higher path.

My .02

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by JoJo78

Dude, I know! And there's nothing I can do at the moment as eBay rendered their decision. This wasn't your normal "return request" as I've handled many over my 12 years. This case was handled by eBay's High Value Claims Resolution Department themselves and not I.

I dont know man. You seem like a good guy. I understand he abused the system and tried taking advantage of you, the transaction, ebay's rules etc.. and he was also rude to you. You might have also had bad experience with scammers as buyers on ebay throughout the years... but not everyone is the same. I would just be a better person.
I would atleast email ebay and advise them that you have both the refunded money and resold the watch. It could be a 0.01% chance that ebay have refunded you without knowing you have received the watch back? A miscommunication somewhere?
I cant see myself getting paid twice for a watch, worst case scenario, I would donate the 1st seller's money to charity (but that's just me).

[77T]

Originally Posted by mkruger311

I've just skimmed these posts so have not fully read into the whole story. I am not an active eBay seller but have sold a few watches on there in the past.

It seems highly un-likely that eBay would have released funds back to the seller, along with requiring the buyer to return the watch. Does eBay know the original seller has the item as well?

OP, you should return the buyer's funds- regardless if he was a pain to work with. You now have your merchandise and the sellers funds. It's the morally correct thing to do. Give the guy his money back. I honestly cannot believe that eBay allowed you to keep the buyers money (could have been a administrative error on their end?)

I'm sure you have his PayPal address. A simple gifted payment of his money along with a sorry for your trouble would go a long way. Take the higher path.

My .02

It’s worth reading the whole thing from the $2 discovery, through the eBay listing and sale, plus the buyer’s subsequent scam attempt. Might not change your opinion - and not suggesting you do. I generally agree with “live and let live”.

If the buyer gets away with his behavior without a ban by eBay, I think giving him the money eBay confiscated just rewards a borderline criminal attempt.

Originally Posted by JoJo78

Dude, I know! And there's nothing I can do at the moment as eBay rendered their decision. This wasn't your normal "return request" as I've handled many over my 12 years. This case was handled by eBay's High Value Claims Resolution Department themselves and not I.

I’ve had similar cases where a seller “no shipped” and got some of the money back. Also where my race car PP payment was pilfered by a seller’s ex-wife.

And myriad buyer behavior…but never a case like this one. I began selling in 2004 and was Power Seller for part of the time.

I’ve been following from the beginning and am as gobsmacked as you are. Watch back plus the payment.

To ensure you aren’t debited out of the blue in the future, do you plan to get a settlement review to be sure they haven’t goofed in the back office?


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[Nick9]

This strikes me as a crazy and unexpected run of events.

If I was in the situation Jojo has described, at a minimum I would sit tight for whatever period of time it took me to conclude that no more surprises were coming my way from eBay, or from the first buyer.

As a wise man once said, “it ain’t over until it’s over”.

[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by Nick9

This strikes me as a crazy and unexpected run of events.

If I was in the situation Jojo has described, at a minimum I would sit tight for whatever period of time it took me to conclude that no more surprises were coming my way from eBay, or from the first buyer.

As a wise man once said, “it ain’t over until it’s over”.

EBay would only refund the seller the way they did if the case was closed. It's really weird tbh but this has left the buyer without the funds and the seller with the watch and 8k from two sales of the same watch.

[JoJo78]

Originally Posted by 77T

It’s worth reading the whole thing from the $2 discovery, through the eBay listing and sale, plus the buyer’s subsequent scam attempt. Might not change your opinion - and not suggesting you do. I generally agree with “live and let live”.

If the buyer gets away with his behavior without a ban by eBay, I think giving him the money eBay confiscated just rewards a borderline criminal attempt.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

THANK YOU!

I'm just amazed at how some here so quickly forgot and became sympathizers of said subsequent scammer. Sympathizers to a person who they themselves have said tried to rip and ruin other reputable sellers on different sales platforms. I've somehow become the "scammer" in their mines because of eBay's rendered decision in which I had no control over. It just boggles my mind!

I can only come up with: these folks aren't sellers on eBay and have not a clue of what hell some sellers are going through from such scam buyers and eBay's favoritism towards buyers. How nearly 1/3 of sellers are being ripped by such buyers and many aloud to keep the item they purchased and be rewarded a refund atop of the sellers items. There's no outcry regarding that.............probably because they have not a clue this is what's going on? Now, a seller (me) has been awarded this same "privilege" as said buyers and now some are in shock and awe, ready to grab pitchforks as if I did something wrong. I'm just as gobsmacked as they are.

[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by JoJo78

THANK YOU!

I'm just amazed at how some here so quickly forgot and became sympathizers of said subsequent scammer. Sympathizers to a person who they themselves have said tried to rip and ruin other reputable sellers on different sales platforms. I've somehow become the "scammer" in their mines because of eBay's rendered decision in which I had no control over. It just boggles my mind!

I can only come up with: these folks aren't sellers on eBay and have not a clue of what hell some sellers are going through from such scam buyers and eBay's favoritism towards buyers. How nearly 1/3 of sellers are being ripped by such buyers and many aloud to keep the item they purchased and be rewarded a refund atop of the sellers items. There's no outcry regarding that.............probably because they have not a clue this is what's going on? Now, a seller (me) has been awarded this same "privilege" as said buyers and now some are in shock and awe, ready to grab pitchforks as if I did something wrong. I'm just as gobsmacked as they are.

Well, there is only one person in this entire thread who has claimed this buyer is a scammer. 'Alwayshere'. He has provided no basis or proof of these claims at all. Where are the screenshots of this individual actually defrauding people? Like the Salem witch trials, everyone just joined in base on his baseless comments. I am an outside on this one, but when another forum is listed in this thread, namely Watchuseek with the buyer being vocal about 'Alwayshere' and stating a prior relationship, well it makes you wonder does it?

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/1...5333183/page-3

I find that post most fishy of all, as the buyer was attacked on there by a group of brand new or unused dormant accounts. I mean what on earth is going on here?

If I was the seller, I would just refund the buyer and move on. I think the wool is being pulled over all of our eyes here. I think someone has had a revenge agenda and used this case to attack someone whilst hiding in the shadows. Pretty low if you ask me.

[MILGAUSS88]

I am guessing the returned watch was not received in time, to meet ebay's criteria for a refund.
And for those that are not sellers, ebay requires the seller to use their in house payment system instead of PayPal. It really is not set up to send money to people like PayPal was.

If a refund is not issued, I am not sure if you could send the buyer money.

I have a feeling this will not be the end of the story.
Even though the seller is not on Paypal, the buyer probably is, and he could still appeal to Paypal which could withhold money to ebay.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by snakeeyes

Well, there is only one person in this entire thread who has claimed this buyer is a scammer. 'Alwayshere'. He has provided no basis or proof of these claims at all. Where are the screenshots of this individual actually defrauding people? Like the Salem witch trials, everyone just joined in base on his baseless comments. I am an outside on this one, but when another forum is listed in this thread, namely Watchuseek with the buyer being vocal about 'Alwayshere' and stating a prior relationship, well it makes you wonder does it?

https://www.watchuseek.com/threads/1...5333183/page-3

I find that post most fishy of all, as the buyer was attacked on there by a group of brand new or unused dormant accounts. I mean what on earth is going on here?

If I was the seller, I would just refund the buyer and move on. I think the wool is being pulled over all of our eyes here. I think someone has had a revenge agenda and used this case to attack someone whilst hiding in the shadows. Pretty low if you ask me.

If you bothered to read prior posts, you will note he is banned on this site (actually under 3 different usernames) - why don't you ask the mods on the reason?

He is also banned on a number of watch groups including many of the Australia facebook groups.

if you haven't realised just by reading his old threads here and on watchuseek, he loves to personally attack, threaten and insult people, thats his MO. The OP experienced it first hand and she was being kind not posting exactly what he wrote to her. You'll be appalled if you read it. I haven't dealt with him directly but have been made aware of him via other members here and hence why i've connected the dots. Life is hard enough as it is so why risk dealing with him.

Anyway, lets not muddy this thread by further debating his character (or mine) otherwise this thread will get locked. Lets stay on course.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

I am guessing the returned watch was not received in time, to meet ebay's criteria for a refund.
And for those that are not sellers, ebay requires the seller to use their in house payment system instead of PayPal. It really is not set up to send money to people like PayPal was.

If a refund is not issued, I am not sure if you could send the buyer money.

I have a feeling this will not be the end of the story.
Even though the seller is not on Paypal, the buyer probably is, and he could still appeal to Paypal which could withhold money to ebay.

yeah that could actually be the case. Interesting to see how this plays out.

[snakeeyes]

*Slowly removes his glasses, gently folds them and squeezes the bridge of his nose with his thumb and forefinger*

I thought wristwatches would be the realm of learned likeminded adults. This has all of the drama of a Pokémon forum.

[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

If you bothered to read prior posts, you will note he is banned on this site (actually under 3 different usernames) - why don't you ask the mods on the reason?

He is also banned on a number of watch groups including many of the Australia facebook groups.

if you haven't realised just by reading his old threads here and on watchuseek, he loves to personally attack, threaten and insult people, thats his MO. The OP experienced it first hand and she was being kind not posting exactly what he wrote to her. You'll be appalled if you read it. I haven't dealt with him directly but have been made aware of him via other members here and hence why i've connected the dots. Life is hard enough as it is so why risk dealing with him.

Anyway, lets not muddy this thread by further debating his character (or mine) otherwise this thread will get locked. Lets stay on course.

"I haven't dealt with him directly" OK, he seems to know who you are? You see, this is what has gotten me hooked on this thread. Things just don't add up. Also, you say this person was banned from multiple forums, but you also called him a scammer on page 5? So what is the basis of that claim? My 2c is this guy is an abrasive a$$hat. Sure, but a scammer? We need to have proof of that right? I am just reading the Watchuseek thread. He said he has made two returns in three years, which includes this Tudor. So who did he scam? When/where? You have said it a few times and yet you dont know this person?

[77T]

Originally Posted by JoJo78

Now, a seller (me) has been awarded this same "privilege" as said buyers and now some are in shock and awe, ready to grab pitchforks as if I did something wrong. I'm just as gobsmacked as they are.

Do you plan to clarify the case with eBay? That is, to be sure the outcome was not an error which might be reversed by some future action?

The buyer may already be appealing the case via other channels. Maybe it’s just my “spidey sense” but he may be appealing to recover the watch.


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[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by 77T

Do you plan to clarify the case with eBay? That is, to be sure the outcome was not an error which might be reversed by some future action?

The buyer may already be appealing the case via other channels. Maybe it’s just my “spidey sense” but he may be appealing to recover the watch.


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The watch was sold, its long gone apparently. The seller has made 8k out of $2. Not bad hey, but still, half of that doesnt belong to her. The problem with ebay, especially where am in Kiwi land is when I contact them I always get South East Asia call centres and bro you never get anywhere with those guys. So it wouldnt surprise me if they screwed up here. If so, the seller has to do the right thing.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by snakeeyes

"I haven't dealt with him directly" OK, he seems to know who you are? You see, this is what has gotten me hooked on this thread. Things just don't add up. Also, you say this person was banned from multiple forums, but you also called him a scammer on page 5? So what is the basis of that claim? My 2c is this guy is an abrasive a$$hat. Sure, but a scammer? We need to have proof of that right? I am just reading the Watchuseek thread. He said he has made two returns in three years, which includes this Tudor. So who did he scam? When/where? You have said it a few times and yet you dont know this person?

You know whats interesting? a new member coming in defending someone who has been banned 3 times here under different usernames and obligating the seller to do the right thing with such conviction.... you sure you're not Dempsey Warren aka DemoF1 ala the buyer here in question? Because you sure are fighting a good fight for him.

[Steve in SoCal]

Originally Posted by snakeeyes

*Slowly removes his glasses, gently folds them and squeezes the bridge of his nose with his thumb and forefinger*

I thought wristwatches would be the realm of learned likeminded adults. This has all of the drama of a Pokémon forum.

Agreed. Really unfortunate to see the bad behavior of the buyer and now potentially the seller too. In my line of work the gold standard is to act with high integrity even if no one is watching. Even when very large sums of money are involved. I have no interest in supporting anyone that doesn’t follow that rule.


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[snakeeyes]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

You know whats interesting? a new member coming in defending someone who has been banned 3 times here under different usernames and obligating the seller to do the right thing with such conviction.... you sure you're not Dempsey Warren aka DemoF1 ala the buyer here in question? Because you sure are fighting a good fight for him.

Bro, unlike you Aussies, lockdown over here means we cannot leave the house! Even if we are essential workers, so I have a lot of time on my hands here. I asked obvious questions that are being posed on each page of this ops post. You are coming after this guy and coming hard. With no proof? Then there is that other forum with him talking about you two having a history and you are like 'I dont know him'. Yeah. Fishy. Really fishy.

Oh yeah and my account predates all of this, so what are you suggesting? Please, someone else has already been accused of being the buyer or a relative of the buyer on page 8 #oldnews.

MOD NOTICE: Goodbye Dempsey Warren, etc.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by snakeeyes

Bro, unlike you Aussies, lockdown over here means we cannot leave the house! Even if we are essential workers, so I have a lot of time on my hands here. I asked obvious questions that are being posed on each page of this ops post. You are coming after this guy and coming hard. With no proof? Then there is that other forum with him talking about you two having a history and you are like 'I dont know him'. Yeah. Fishy. Really fishy.

Oh yeah and my account predates all of this, so what are you suggesting? Please, someone else has already been accused of being the buyer or a relative of the buyer on page 8 #oldnews.


MOD NOTICE: Goodbye Dempsey Warren, etc.

Your "stunts" are embarrassing.... Seriously... just stay on watchuseek where they tolerate your lies and deceptive behaviour.

Ironic isn't it? he had the audacity to accuse others of creating new accounts.... whats that? 4 usernames now banned here...

Thanks Mods for looking out for us

[interestedwatcher]

I have sold to Warren on Ebay with no issue. I also know a number of people who have had bad experiences with him - but none of the stories are entirely one sided either.

Surely it's time to back off a little - for him to lose both the money and his ebay account is pretty steep...

Both sides could have dealt with this in a far better fashion.

[77T]

Originally Posted by snakeeyes

Oh yeah and my account predates all of this, so what are you suggesting? Please, someone else has already been accused of being the buyer or a relative of the buyer on page 8 #oldnews.

MOD NOTICE: Goodbye Dempsey Warren, etc.

Thanks Mods
Those pesky IP addy’s get them every time.

This continued behavior using alias sleeper ID’s further supports the concept that the buyer was (and still is) a jackwagon x2.


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[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by interestedwatcher

I have sold to Warren on Ebay with no issue. I also know a number of people who have had bad experiences with him - but none of the stories are entirely one sided either.

Surely it's time to back off a little - for him to lose both the money and his ebay account is pretty steep...

Both sides could have dealt with this in a far better fashion.

Yikes, why even bother defending him.

If you saw how he behaved on WUS and even on here, sounds like he deserved it. That's karma.

This has been an amazing topic. I love his quote trying to get his money back pretending to be some outsider.

If I was the seller, I would just refund the buyer and move on.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Yikes, why even bother defending him.

If you saw how he behaved on WUS and even on here, sounds like he deserved it. That's karma.

This has been an amazing topic. I love his quote trying to get his money back pretending to be some outsider.

Knowing all of this I still don’t believe it’s the right move to keep the guys money.

That being said, OP, I apologize for being rude. I quit selling on eBay when they decided to leave PayPal and move to their own payment system. Therefore, the idea eBay would be the arbiter for the funds and not you was foreign to me. I do however stand by my initial comment regarding keeping the funds. Your juju is not my fight though, so I digress. Best of luck on your future finds, I look forward to seeing more interesting items you’ll find.


Sent from my Apple privacy invasion product

[Nick9]

A gripping tale, this thread.

It still seems to me that eBay may or may not be done with this. Apparently they have already made some unusual (unpredictable) decisions. Anybody’s guess if there’s more to come.

Once again, if I was the OP, I’d absolutely sit tight for now. To me that’s just common sense.

[interestedwatcher]

Originally Posted by Wahlberg

Yikes, why even bother defending him.

If you saw how he behaved on WUS and even on here, sounds like he deserved it. That's karma.

This has been an amazing topic. I love his quote trying to get his money back pretending to be some outsider.

Defending him? I would ask you to reread what I said and tell me how I am defending him.

He's lost big style here (some would argue deservedly so), at this point the gloating from the seller and the gang bashing is just a bit excessive.

[tripleC]

send that to zimmerman watch great guy works wonders .....great find

[linesiders]

Originally Posted by tripleC

send that to zimmerman watch great guy works wonders .....great find

Meh. Not a great find. It is a ridden hard, not financially worth restoring piece except for the most simple and cheap restore. Zimmerman is great, but this piece is not deserving of it.

While I don't have issue with lousy sellers or buyers being deservedly dragged around, buyer should get refunded. Send it in all pennies ;) . The proper solution is to check with Ebay and ask HOW you can be protected by sending money back . So yeh, Karma.

[miccro]

WTF is this thread on about - this is pure garbage now

if you Won the case and got your money back that was on hold- it means the original transaction IE the sale of the watch was valid. Therefore you owe him the watch!!

The fact that you received the watch and resold it before the case was ruled on, means you invalidated the whole thing.

there for you 100% owe him the money back!

madness

and this is from bragging about finding a 2$ watch... you've managed to scam someone out of 3.7K and resell the watch again.

im not sure why you haven't been banned from here either ...

[alwayshere]

For the TLDR guys, I think the below sums up the current situation.

1) we can confirm the seller (OP) has the watch as well as the funds now.
2) eBay likely to continue to investigate as the buyer will fight for a reversal of the decision
3) OP likely to just wait it out for eBay. Think about it. If OP refunds buyer separately and then eBay decides to also refund, it'll be a bad outcome for OP also. So the smart thing to do is to just wait and see.

I'm all for fairness too but you can't blame the OP for sitting on her hands atm as the risk is just as high for her. As you may or may not know, the new eBay payment platform doesn't allow you to simply refund after they intervene with the transaction. There is likely no function to do so other than OP wiring funds or sending via paypal which are both risky options in the event eBay reverses their decision once again.

Best to just let this play out in the coming weeks.

[Oyster Perp]

JoJo. I supported your side of this both here and on the other side from the start (and took a degree of public flak from the P.O.S buyer for it too) . The buyer, in my opinion, was trying it on. Ebay came to what I considered an unfair decision in finding for the buyer. That said., I dont think its at all right for you to keep his money after having had the watch returned. We all know what he tried to do, just give his money back and move on.

[BDII]

No way I would go around eBay and refund the money. Give it time, they may reverse their decision again and you’ll be the one out $8k.


Jojo, I would sit tight, leave that money in a account and wait at least 6 months.


I had this happen once before and it tooks months to resolve.

What a mess. Good luck.