Czapek

[Marinapark]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

Really? A special dial takes not weeks or months, but years? Give me a break!

I don't have to assume you're biased when it's self-evident from this nonsense. And your shot at me looks like a weak attempt to avoid responding to my other points. How convenient for you yet pathetically transparent.

But you're right. No need to continue to the discussion, and I truly hold no axe to grind against Czapek. I wish them the best. They obviously have many satisfied customers; others, not so much.

Go ask around how long it takes and then come back to me. Dont just assume. You don’t know the Swiss watch industry.

If you hold no axe to grind, why all the accusations on your original post? Why accuse Czapek of cash grabbing with limited editions while you have no industry knowledge whatsoever and above all no proof. Why single out Czapek regarding deposits when its an industry wide standard? Seems to me you have quite the axe to grind.

Edit: please go watch the Revolution interview on Youtube with Collective x Czapek Lanikai. Its clearly stated by Collective founder that the project which was introduced in mid 2023, had started 3 years prior to that and well before all the hype regarding the Antarctique. Ill save you some time, its around the 11 minute mark. That should end our discussion.

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[RolexSimon]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

These ^^ circumstances just make me shake my head in light of the intervening limited editions that Czapek is able to pump out. Czapek cannot timely satisfy orders despite substantial down payments made in good faith, yet they can dedicate resources to multiple limited editions over the same time period. Sounds like they've intentionally chosen a particular business model...

Czapek are not the only brand with supply issues. They were very open with me about my slipped delay from Jan to May 2023. Watch arrived in may - love it!
Another indie called me on friday - my delivery with them for a 50 watch LE has slipped from July to November and I've actually paid in full. My options are to get my money back (no way - the watches sold out in just a few days) or be patient and wait. Being an a-hole and shouting / complaining really doesn't get you anywhere in the watch industry. The indies talk to each other and word will get around that they're just better taking a deposit from someone else.
I've also paid a 30% deposit to one of the most famous indies with an expected build date of Dec 2024. No deposit - no place in the queue. Even to get offered a place in the queue took some doing.
I'm really happy with Czapek and their honesty and customer service. I suspect others will look and go elsewhere - that just gives he rest of us more chance to get our watches sooner.

[enjoythemusic]

Yes, the industry still has some supply issues. Take a look at the Christopher Ward Bel Canto C1 threads. My July delivery went to November.

[mikemargolis]

When we announced the Collective Lanikai in April 2023, we mentioned that the watch had been in development for three years.

That is not a lie, three years.

Three years ago, when we first opened discussions with Collective, the watch world was a vastly different place. We had not yet delivered our first Antarctique, and we were a very small company. A 50 piece order was HUGE for us.

Were the 50 pieces presold when we announced? Well, depends on how you define "presold." Collective, who was our customer for the Lanikai, had paid a healthy deposit upon committal, so in Czapek's eyes, yes, they were presold. Had Collective sold them all yet? Not, until the announcement, and then quite quickly.

So, Collective's customers are waiting from April 2023 until August or September 2023 for their watches. Is four or five months "fair" when others are waiting 18 months or more? Well, it depends on who you see as the customer in this transaction. Collective paid their deposit and has waited YEARS for their watches.

Same is true for our retailers. We are delivering watches that they ordered eighteen or twenty four months ago. If they happen to have a watch that is not presold or that their customer cancelled or bought something else, they may have a watch immediately available. Is that "fair" that an end user might wander into a retailer and find a watch ready to deliver without a wait? Well, the retailer did the waiting already.

And to answer a question, yes, it can take years for a special dial to delivery. I did say years. Remember, Czapek makes less than 1000 watches per year, so dials are an edition of let's say 1 to 100. When you go to Donze Cadrans, who are in fact owned by Ulysse Nardin, and you order 10 dials, do you think they prioritize Czapek in front of UN's dials? Or XYZ brand who orders dials 1000 or 10,000 at a time? Even when we prepay for the dials, we are still towards the end of the line.

And this is true not only for dials, but for hairsprings, jewels, cases, bracelets, etc...

Now, haters are gonna hate, and that's OK. People like to believe what they like to believe, and they're probably saying I am spinning the truth right now.

Here's the simple truth: We do take deposits, it helps us to pay for the parts that go into your watch, most of which we have to prepay for. If you decide the wait's too long, we refund your deposit less bank fees and a small handling charge, all explained before you pay your deposit.

We run the fine line of predicting the future demand and supplying today's demand. Things can change in an instant, we all remember how the industry suffered in 2008 and 2009.

We are doing our best to build each and every watch that is on open order as quickly and efficiently as possible, without compromising on quality. When one supplier fails to delivery his part, the whole process suffers, and watches sit in the safe uncompleted while we wait for the missing part(s). That is unrealized cash in the bank.

I am reminded of the 14 month wait I endured with my wife's new Toyota minivan. I ordered it February 2022, paid a deposit, and was told "two or three months." That turned into an April 2023 delivery, FOURTEEN MONTHS. Every time I would call the salesperson, he would say, "Hey, I am pushing Toyota, let me call again and see what they say." Finally after one year, and maybe six phone calls, he said to me, "Look Mr. Margolis, there's nobody in this world who want to deliver your car more than me. I don't make a dime until we deliver. I am pushing as hard as I can, but if they don't have the car, they don't have the car. You're welcome to keep calling, but I'm not sure it helps any. When your car's being built, you'll be my first phone call." Should I mention that I had to pay the 2023 price for the car, not the 2022 price?

Please be patient with us, we're doing the best we can.

[Marinapark]

Originally Posted by mikemargolis

When we announced the Collective Lanikai in April 2023, we mentioned that the watch had been in development for three years.

That is not a lie, three years.

Three years ago, when we first opened discussions with Collective, the watch world was a vastly different place. We had not yet delivered our first Antarctique, and we were a very small company. A 50 piece order was HUGE for us.

Were the 50 pieces presold when we announced? Well, depends on how you define "presold." Collective, who was our customer for the Lanikai, had paid a healthy deposit upon committal, so in Czapek's eyes, yes, they were presold. Had Collective sold them all yet? Not, until the announcement, and then quite quickly.

So, Collective's customers are waiting from April 2023 until August or September 2023 for their watches. Is four or five months "fair" when others are waiting 18 months or more? Well, it depends on who you see as the customer in this transaction. Collective paid their deposit and has waited YEARS for their watches.

Same is true for our retailers. We are delivering watches that they ordered eighteen or twenty four months ago. If they happen to have a watch that is not presold or that their customer cancelled or bought something else, they may have a watch immediately available. Is that "fair" that an end user might wander into a retailer and find a watch ready to deliver without a wait? Well, the retailer did the waiting already.

And to answer a question, yes, it can take years for a special dial to delivery. I did say years. Remember, Czapek makes less than 1000 watches per year, so dials are an edition of let's say 1 to 100. When you go to Donze Cadrans, who are in fact owned by Ulysse Nardin, and you order 10 dials, do you think they prioritize Czapek in front of UN's dials? Or XYZ brand who orders dials 1000 or 10,000 at a time? Even when we prepay for the dials, we are still towards the end of the line.

And this is true not only for dials, but for hairsprings, jewels, cases, bracelets, etc...

Now, haters are gonna hate, and that's OK. People like to believe what they like to believe, and they're probably saying I am spinning the truth right now.

Here's the simple truth: We do take deposits, it helps us to pay for the parts that go into your watch, most of which we have to prepay for. If you decide the wait's too long, we refund your deposit less bank fees and a small handling charge, all explained before you pay your deposit.

We run the fine line of predicting the future demand and supplying today's demand. Things can change in an instant, we all remember how the industry suffered in 2008 and 2009.

We are doing our best to build each and every watch that is on open order as quickly and efficiently as possible, without compromising on quality. When one supplier fails to delivery his part, the whole process suffers, and watches sit in the safe uncompleted while we wait for the missing part(s). That is unrealized cash in the bank.

I am reminded of the 14 month wait I endured with my wife's new Toyota minivan. I ordered it February 2022, paid a deposit, and was told "two or three months." That turned into an April 2023 delivery, FOURTEEN MONTHS. Every time I would call the salesperson, he would say, "Hey, I am pushing Toyota, let me call again and see what they say." Finally after one year, and maybe six phone calls, he said to me, "Look Mr. Margolis, there's nobody in this world who want to deliver your car more than me. I don't make a dime until we deliver. I am pushing as hard as I can, but if they don't have the car, they don't have the car. You're welcome to keep calling, but I'm not sure it helps any. When your car's being built, you'll be my first phone call." Should I mention that I had to pay the 2023 price for the car, not the 2022 price?

Please be patient with us, we're doing the best we can.

Great explanation Mike. But im afraid no matter what we say, some people just wont be convinced. Is it because they are ignorant to how things work in the industry? I would hope so. But im afraid they are not looking for the truth, but to rather hate and slander.


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[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by Marinapark

Great explanation Mike. But im afraid no matter what we say, some people just wont be convinced. Is it because they are ignorant to how things work in the industry? I would hope so. But im afraid they are not looking for the truth, but to rather hate and slander.


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Not true, guy. You're not an honest broker of information. We can see that in your silly allegation about maximizing profits by just pumping out Antarctiques. As an alleged investor, either you know little about the luxury goods market, maintaining demand, and artificial scarcity, or you're flat out dishonest (my guess is the latter). Same for your statements around use of customer deposits, which incidentally are controverted by Mike's own even-handed statements. Your BS responses only escalated the controversy since they were so obviously biased and wrong, and therefore shouldn't go unchallenged.

By the way, the Collective Lanikai is merely one example, yet there have been other limited editions, and Czapek along the way is deciding to release the editions in quantities it chooses and at times it chooses. This of course affects Czapek's ability to fulfill prior orders. To deny that is nonsensical.

I'm not looking to hate or to slander. But I guess you see any criticism or concerns as hate and slander. Too bad for you. Perhaps if you listened to instead of attacked enthusiasts you could help the business.

By the way, I was going to let Mike have the last word, but you obviously can't leave it at that, so neither will I.

[Marinapark]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

Not true, guy. You're not an honest broker of information. We can see that in your silly allegation about maximizing profits by just pumping out Antarctiques. As an alleged investor, either you know little about the luxury goods market, maintaining demand, and artificial scarcity, or you're flat out dishonest (my guess is the latter). Same for your statements around use of customer deposits, which incidentally are controverted by Mike's own even-handed statements. Your BS responses only escalated the controversy since they were so obviously biased and wrong, and therefore shouldn't go unchallenged.

By the way, the Collective Lanikai is merely one example, yet there have been other limited editions, and Czapek along the way is deciding to release the editions in quantities it chooses and at times it chooses. This of course affects Czapek's ability to fulfill prior orders. To deny that is nonsensical.

I'm not looking to hate or to slander. But I guess you see any criticism or concerns as hate and slander. Too bad for you. Perhaps if you listened to instead of attacked enthusiasts you could help the business.

By the way, I was going to let Mike have the last word, but you obviously can't leave it at that, so neither will I.

Again, your ignorance of how the industry works is only topped by your desire to be right. I clearly proved you wrong on your limited edition claims, yet here you are saying there are “other” examples, none which you can bring up. You cant just admit you were wrong, can you? I wont even discuss supply chain issues that LEs create with you because you are either ignorant to the topic, or you pretend to be. I insist deposits are there primarily to ensure clients are serious about their orders. I never claimed they are not used. Not to mention, this is perfectly standard for the watch industry. And if you knew a simple fact like that, you would have not singled out Czapek regarding the deposits.

So we have established you have very little knowledge of how things work in the industry and that you are not really willing to learn but rather trying to be right. So go ahead, have the last word.


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[GB-man]

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by Marinapark

I clearly proved you wrong on your limited edition claims, yet here you are saying there are “other” examples, none which you can bring up.

Wrong. You provided merely a single example which doesn't prove wrong that intervening LEs have delayed deliveries of other models. Are you denying that there have been other LE dials? Even regarding your single example, was it a 50 edition run to begin with? That would be a huge proportion of overall production to commit to at a time when the watch had not yet even been released. Or perhaps was the LE increased in number after the original conception? This would seem very sensible from a business perspective given popularity. Regardless, there have been other LE dials and you know it. I need not cite them with specificity unless you're trying to induce a continued fight.

Originally Posted by Marinapark

I insist deposits are there primarily to ensure clients are serious about their orders. I never claimed they are not used.

Originally Posted by Marinapark

Deposits are in place to ensure the client is serious about their order. Its not to finance the business.

Your words, buddy. As I said, you're not an honest broker of information. Of course the deposits fund the business. This is a cornerstone of the independent business model.

Originally Posted by Marinapark

Not to mention, this is perfectly standard for the watch industry. And if you knew a simple fact like that, you would have not singled out Czapek regarding the deposits.

I do know this. This happens to be a Czapek thread, not a general thread about independents. Czapek isn't the only independent that has been criticized for releasing LEs while longsuffering customers wait for their orders. But this is a Czapek thread.

Originally Posted by Marinapark

So we have established you have very little knowledge of how things work in the industry and that you are not really willing to learn but rather trying to be right. So go ahead, have the last word.

Meh. Thanks for giving me the last word. I'll take it.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by GB-man

this post should have been left as the last word

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by dchang81

this post should have been left as the last word

In retrospect, I agree. Mea culpa.

[usmc_k9_vet]

Just went over their website again and I could build a collection around an Antarctique, Quai Des Bergues, and Faubourg De Cracovie. Would absolutely love an Antarctique split seconds chrono and Antarctique Orion Nebula. Absolutely stunning stuff!


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[szabo_martin]

I think its easy to lose sight of the difficulties of starting a premium swiss watch brand from scratch. They utilized some of the top suppliers in the industry, have excellent customer support and I do feel they try and be as transparent as possible. In all honestly not sure why people are so upset about the wait times, you can buy any model for close to MSRP on the preowned market...

[hassantg]

Just received my Antarctique S and love it so far!!
For what it is worth, the process was pretty smooth for me, and I had no QC issues with the watch!IMG_20230811_161213.jpg

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[enjoythemusic]

Beeeeee-you-teeeee-ful!

Congrats!

[uscmatt99]

Is the 11 off center? Just kidding, beautiful piece, enjoy!

[usmc_k9_vet]

Originally Posted by hassantg

Just received my Antarctique S and love it so far!!
For what it is worth, the process was pretty smooth for me, and I had no QC issues with the watch!Attachment 1385027

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Looks very nice. Congrats!


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[charger_vital]

Originally Posted by hassantg

Just received my Antarctique S and love it so far!!
For what it is worth, the process was pretty smooth for me, and I had no QC issues with the watch!Attachment 1385027

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Perfect fit. Good choice!


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[Bug04]

Compliments! Very beautiful!

[hassantg]

Thanks all! One thing I wish it had: micro-adjustment perfect watch otherwise!

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[chumbleflea]

Congrats! Stunning watch. I’m still in the patiently waiting for 2025 to arrive group��

[magicman]

Originally Posted by hassantg

Thanks all! One thing I wish it had: micro-adjustment perfect watch otherwise!

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Is the micro adjustment not offered on the 38mm models? Seems like a similar design would be possible?

[Yobrooks]

I thought there is a micro adjustable bracelet.

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[seehoo]

Originally Posted by Yobrooks

I thought there is a micro adjustable bracelet.

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That’s what I thought also…I was expecting it when I received my Antarctique S last month.

[hassantg]

Originally Posted by Yobrooks

I thought there is a micro adjustable bracelet.

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I might be dumb but i cant find it!

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[chumbleflea]

Isn’t it at the clasp? Basically gives you like 1.5 mm for those hot days when the wrist swells? Don’t think it’s a micro adjustment for pure sizing on the wrist

[dpap]

I have the S and I was told the micro-adjustment clasp would ship separately sometime in the fall.

[hassantg]

Originally Posted by dpap

I have the S and I was told the micro-adjustment clasp would ship separately sometime in the fall.

That makes sense cause my clasp does not have it

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[mikemargolis]

Originally Posted by dpap

I have the S and I was told the micro-adjustment clasp would ship separately sometime in the fall.

We ship without, We will retrofit in 2024 when we have the micro adjusters for the S size Antarctique.

[John Doyle]

Originally Posted by mikemargolis

When we announced the Collective Lanikai in April 2023, we mentioned that the watch had been in development for three years.

That is not a lie, three years.

Three years ago, when we first opened discussions with Collective, the watch world was a vastly different place. We had not yet delivered our first Antarctique, and we were a very small company. A 50 piece order was HUGE for us.

Were the 50 pieces presold when we announced? Well, depends on how you define "presold." Collective, who was our customer for the Lanikai, had paid a healthy deposit upon committal, so in Czapek's eyes, yes, they were presold. Had Collective sold them all yet? Not, until the announcement, and then quite quickly.

So, Collective's customers are waiting from April 2023 until August or September 2023 for their watches. Is four or five months "fair" when others are waiting 18 months or more? Well, it depends on who you see as the customer in this transaction. Collective paid their deposit and has waited YEARS for their watches.

Same is true for our retailers. We are delivering watches that they ordered eighteen or twenty four months ago. If they happen to have a watch that is not presold or that their customer cancelled or bought something else, they may have a watch immediately available. Is that "fair" that an end user might wander into a retailer and find a watch ready to deliver without a wait? Well, the retailer did the waiting already.

And to answer a question, yes, it can take years for a special dial to delivery. I did say years. Remember, Czapek makes less than 1000 watches per year, so dials are an edition of let's say 1 to 100. When you go to Donze Cadrans, who are in fact owned by Ulysse Nardin, and you order 10 dials, do you think they prioritize Czapek in front of UN's dials? Or XYZ brand who orders dials 1000 or 10,000 at a time? Even when we prepay for the dials, we are still towards the end of the line.

And this is true not only for dials, but for hairsprings, jewels, cases, bracelets, etc...

Now, haters are gonna hate, and that's OK. People like to believe what they like to believe, and they're probably saying I am spinning the truth right now.

Here's the simple truth: We do take deposits, it helps us to pay for the parts that go into your watch, most of which we have to prepay for. If you decide the wait's too long, we refund your deposit less bank fees and a small handling charge, all explained before you pay your deposit.

We run the fine line of predicting the future demand and supplying today's demand. Things can change in an instant, we all remember how the industry suffered in 2008 and 2009.

We are doing our best to build each and every watch that is on open order as quickly and efficiently as possible, without compromising on quality. When one supplier fails to delivery his part, the whole process suffers, and watches sit in the safe uncompleted while we wait for the missing part(s). That is unrealized cash in the bank.

I am reminded of the 14 month wait I endured with my wife's new Toyota minivan. I ordered it February 2022, paid a deposit, and was told "two or three months." That turned into an April 2023 delivery, FOURTEEN MONTHS. Every time I would call the salesperson, he would say, "Hey, I am pushing Toyota, let me call again and see what they say." Finally after one year, and maybe six phone calls, he said to me, "Look Mr. Margolis, there's nobody in this world who want to deliver your car more than me. I don't make a dime until we deliver. I am pushing as hard as I can, but if they don't have the car, they don't have the car. You're welcome to keep calling, but I'm not sure it helps any. When your car's being built, you'll be my first phone call." Should I mention that I had to pay the 2023 price for the car, not the 2022 price?

Please be patient with us, we're doing the best we can.

That's typical of every single industry, nothing surprising here. Does not excuse extensive delays in deliveries. If you ask me, producing 1000 watches a year is equivalent to "limited editions" from omega for instance or other big brand. Independents really should not label any watch a "limited edition" when they anyway make such a small amount a watches, especially when it impacts the regular production models delivery dates.