5513 over polished?

[Bbbpoint]

Hi all,

Apologies in advance if this seems too obvious. I've only very recently been dipping my toes into vintage watches. I have been offered a 1967 5513 for around 10k USD from an AD, pictures attached...

It's obvious that the case has been polished and parts have been replaced. Any thoughts as to whether this is a good deal or not?

Any information/opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks

[Dan S]

The lugs look very thin (the lower left lug in particular), which would be the end of the discussion for me. The bezel insert appears to be a service replacement or aftermarket. The dial looks like it could be original but the hands might be later. Hard to say from those photos. Not a buy for me at any price because of the case, and definitely not at $10k.

[Bbbpoint]

Thank you for the response. I tend to agree with regards to the lugs (and crown guards, in particular the lower one) having been polished to death, but the AD is offering a 24 month warranty and says they have the service history. I will view the watch and papers next week in person in any case.

[VonSlingshot]

All the warranty in the world isn’t going to help a thinned case.....

[Crown & Shield]

No way, those lugs are scary.
But the striped stickers should look smart with a Regimental necktie

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Bbbpoint

Thank you for the response. I tend to agree with regards to the lugs (and crown guards, in particular the lower one) having been polished to death, but the AD is offering a 24 month warranty and says they have the service history. I will view the watch and papers next week in person in any case.

Since you seem to understand how badly the case has been degraded, I have no idea why you would waste your time considering this watch.

[Bbbpoint]

As long as the structural integrity remains intact it's not the absolute deal breaker for me. But I understand it is for some. The problem is I have no experience with the degree to which over polishing affects structural integrity. These are also quite rare to find in the UK without paying significantly more so I half an hours inspection before work next week is ok for me. Thanks for the input though.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Bbbpoint

As long as the structural integrity remains intact it's not the absolute deal breaker for me. But I understand it is for some. The problem is I have no experience with the degree to which over polishing affects structural integrity. These are also quite rare to find in the UK without paying significantly more so I half an hours inspection before work next week is ok for me. Thanks for the input though.

Structural integrity is not the issue ... the concern is value in the context of collectibility and desirability. If you consider the condition of the case and the service insert, this watch is simply not a good value. The insert can be replaced, but that will cost you roughly $2k for a decent one. And the condition of the case may eventually reduce your enjoyment of the watch as your collectors "eye" develops.

I understand the emphasis on price, everyone is price conscious. However, I would encourage you to take your time and to also view some good examples before purchasing this watch. That will give you a more nuanced perspective. $10k is still a lot of money in absolute terms, and I'm afraid you might regret this purchase in the future.

[Subspecies]

Lume appears to be missing from the 3 o'clock marker and possibly elsewhere, pics aren't good enough to gauge. Vintage hands can be found but getting a shade matching the plots will not be easy. You are right, mf dials are not common in the UK but even if you source hands and insert the case is still thin.

[goldfixer21]

Thin lugs can be repaired

[stmoore]

It’s never easy justifying a bad watch, so don’t.
Spend $20 and get an amazing one.

Many chips on the dial. I can’t completely tell, but those hands might be aftermarket - either way they’ve been changed. .
I don’t like the crown guards. Insert can get pitched. Lume is inconsistent. Case is thin.

[SunTzu]

Originally Posted by Dan S

The lugs look very thin (the lower left lug in particular), which would be the end of the discussion for me. The bezel insert appears to be a service replacement or aftermarket. The dial looks like it could be original but the hands might be later. Hard to say from those photos. Not a buy for me at any price because of the case, and definitely not at $10k.

Perfect synopsis. That bottom left lug, ooph!

The the poster, there will be another one. Take your time. If you have questions and are waffling, you know it's time to move on. You'll know when the right one will come along. It'll be almost instantaneous when you see it once you know what you're looking for. They're out there. It's too expensive to rush and end up making a bad move. I did it once and I still have it, don't wear it, and haven't the heart to not get back what I have into it.

[1watch]

Way overpriced. Don’t settle for something in this condition.

[Bbbpoint]

Tried the piece on today at my AD. Despite it's obvious flaws, the dial in particular is quite alluring in person. Serviced by Rolex 3 weeks ago. Rolex confirmed the insert as a service replacement.

[stmoore]

So don’t listen to us and buy it. ?!!!

[Bbbpoint]

I will listen in that I’ll try to view some other examples before making a decision. MF dials are quite rare to come by in UK so may be difficult

[bluered]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink You guys tried !!

[Dan S]

A MF dial is just a matte dial variation. Hard to understand why someone would make such a big deal over it that they would overlook major flaws that make the watch very unattractive. I'm sorry, but that is not an appealing watch overall. The OP will take a bath if he ever decides to unload it.

[SunTzu]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I'm sorry, but that is not an appealing watch overall. The OP will take a bath if he ever decides to unload it.

That toothpick of a lug kills it!

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Dan S

A MF dial is just a matte dial variation. Hard to understand why someone would make such a big deal over it that they would overlook major flaws that make the watch very unattractive. I'm sorry, but that is not an appealing watch overall. The OP will take a bath if he ever decides to unload it.

Precisely.
Because the day will come when you decide to sell it and, believe me, I’ve been there with watches that had fewer issues than this one, and STILL the scrutinizing, the bazillion questions about it, and all the low-ball offers from buyers will make you regret ever buying it. I’m telling you this as the learning experience that I had to suffer through, but, thanks to the insight and wisdom from this forum, you can learn without the suffering...and at the (over)priced tag of $10K.

And I can appreciate the craving to get a vintage Rolex on your wrist. It’s like a drug. I get it. BUT, it’s not worth rushing into.

And, lastly, whatever you feel comfortable with paying for one, add a couple thousand more dollars.

[subtona]

Pass

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Dan S

A MF dial is just a matte dial variation. Hard to understand why someone would make such a big deal over it that they would overlook major flaws that make the watch very unattractive. I'm sorry, but that is not an appealing watch overall. The OP will take a bath if he ever decides to unload it.

Totally agree. Perfect example of how MF dials are hyped to the point of buyers being irrational. I would never, ever pay a premium for an MF dial over a FF dial, everything else being equal. The order of the depth rating always seemed like such an insignificant detail.

[spoilsofwar01]

Hello Bbbpoint, welcome to the forum,

you've done the right thing and posted photos so the experts can comment, if you hang around 5513's come up for sale on the forum and this will offer a better place to find a good example. I do recall a post some time ago in regards to hand finishing lugs / case's that were done in the 60's, so these can be out by a few mil's, factor in 50 years of wear and tear, polishing etc etc, you will find some lugs that are thinner on most of them, good hunting all the very best "H"

[77T]

Originally Posted by Bbbpoint

I will listen in that I’ll try to view some other examples before making a decision. MF dials are quite rare to come by in UK so may be difficult

Why limit yourself to poor examples just because you’re UK-based? The one you’ve shown has thus far fetched zero suggestions to buy.

RSC surely noted the hands have been replaced as well as the insert?

This is a global forum, there are great trusted vintage sellers on TRF and they offer more properly presented 5513s.

Patience and perseverance will avoid remorse at a later time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro