Concerned: Am I being scammed by a seller on TRF?

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by 116710er

When trying to recall a wire, every day counts.

I confess ignorance on this. I wire very seldom, and the few times I have, I've never needed to recall it. I am under the impression that wiring is like handing over cash - once it's out of the account, it's gone. Can banks recall wires in the event of suspected fraud? If so, I'm guessing they would attempt to retrieve the cash from the account to which they wired it, provided it's still there, in which case, I can see why time would be of the essence. If that's the case, I stand corrected, especially in light of another member's claim of being defrauded by the same seller.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by vlps

I was actually given a tracking number that showed it was being sent to me by the person named. and now after a couple of days that exact same tracking number updated to a different sender and a different person the watch was being delivered to in long island NY (I believe the OP). so it looks to be a fake courier site with one tracking number that he updates the sender name and receiver name from each time.

Uh oh. Sorry...I stand corrected. Considering the shipping is the one facially evident breach of the deal, and in light of the shady company and changing tracking information - combined with the information in the other threads - I think that's enough to move forward with a claim.

Best of luck, OP.

[Jim Smyth]

Not one good buyer transaction comment on keller in Whos who section. Lots of classic short one liner responses to build a post count by him/her. Hasnt been a member long. All negatives which is going to add up to a hard lesson learned. I hate thieves!

This type of scenario always freaks me out. I choose to go through a trusted seller at his location and always look at the item in person before forking over the funds. I wish you the best of luck but I think that will only be on your banks end.

[Al1969]

Originally Posted by PanosI

Hope that everything turn out good but I also found these 2 threads

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ghlight=Keller

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...ghlight=Keller

The above wouldn’t give me ‘a warm fuzzy’. Get your money back OP.

[116710er]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

I confess ignorance on this. I wire very seldom, and the few times I have, I've never needed to recall it. I am under the impression that wiring is like handing over cash - once it's out of the account, it's gone. Can banks recall wires in the event of suspected fraud? If so, I'm guessing they would attempt to retrieve the cash from the account to which they wired it, provided it's still there, in which case, I can see why time would be of the essence. If that's the case, I stand corrected, especially in light of another member's claim of being defrauded by the same seller.

You're right in that it's essentially like cash but from my understanding on how some of these scams work is that the first account is real account held by a real person who isn't necessarily in on the scam. As soon as it lands, that 1st person is suppose to forward it to another account (keeping a few dollars for their "work") which is usually a foreign account. The time urgency is that if you can catch the transfers in the process before it leaves the domestic account, you can possibly recall the wire. Even if it lands in a foreign bank, if the scammer doesn't quickly withdraw it (or transfer it once again to yet another account), you could possibly get it back even then.

You know those "work from home" ads you see on telephone poles (back in days), the internet, etc? Some of those are designed to pull in people who are essentially blind "money mules" for these scammers. The people who sign up for this usually aren't told anything other than "You're going to get wires from random people. You keep XX% and then wire the rest to this account." Usually under the guise of helping some legitimate business venture where they're limited by some "minor" bank restriction...tons of different stories and variations.

[teqp]

OP, I hope you get your money back. It doesn't look legit from my point of view.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Largely a bunch of one-liners. But at this point, we're prosecuting a guy in absentia. Some of his behavior may not be ideal customer service, but that doesn't automatically make him a scammer. Moreover, I'm not seeing any solid evidence he has scammed anyone. All of this "doesn't look good" feedback is causing OP to freak out and file a claim one day before the delivery date, which doesn't make much sense, imo. I don't see what he has to lose by waiting another day for the package to arrive. For all we know, his bank will tell him to do that anyway.

Did you see the two links posted above? I would be at my bank ASAP to try and save this the best I can. Not sure what can be done but completely stinks. Thieves suck.


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[Gotgolf52]

File a police report and take it to the bank asking the bank to withdraw the funds. Hopefully the money didn’t deposit into the scammer account. Good luck

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by V25V

Did you see the two links posted above? I would be at my bank ASAP to try and save this the best I can. Not sure what can be done but completely stinks. Thieves suck.

Yes. See further up this page.

[V25V]

I'm just wondering at this point why that posting hasn't been flagged or a Moderator hasn't asked for a photo with time/date/username to verify seller. That would be completely reasonable at this point given the info in this thread.



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[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by 116710er

You're right in that it's essentially like cash but from my understanding on how some of these scams work is that the first account is real account held by a real person who isn't necessarily in on the scam. As soon as it lands, that 1st person is suppose to forward it to another account (keeping a few dollars for their "work") which is usually a foreign account. The time urgency is that if you can catch the transfers in the process before it leaves the domestic account, you can possibly recall the wire. Even if it lands in a foreign bank, if the scammer doesn't quickly withdraw it (or transfer it once again to yet another account), you could possibly get it back even then.

You know those "work from home" ads you see on telephone poles (back in days), the internet, etc? Some of those are designed to pull in people who are essentially blind "money mules" for these scammers. The people who sign up for this usually aren't told anything other than "You're going to get wires from random people. You keep XX% and then wire the rest to this account." Usually under the guise of helping some legitimate business venture where they're limited by some "minor" bank restriction...tons of different stories and variations.

I hate it when I don't see bald-faced tactics for what they are. It seems pretty obvious now that the switcheroo on the shipping is designed to keep OP waiting long enough for the scammer to get the funds out of the account so they can't be recalled. In retrospect, the second OP saw that he wasn't getting the shipping as promised, he should have immediately gone to his bank to recall the wire. I totally fell for it, but then...I guess that's why I only deal with established sellers. I don't trust myself to see the tells far enough in advance.

Again, sorry OP. I hope this works out for you.

[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by V25V

I'm just wondering at this point why that posting hasn't been flagged or a Moderator hasn't asked for a photo with time/date/username to verify seller. That would be completely reasonable at this point given the info in this thread.

I just flagged it, and directed mods to this thread for further details.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by NJRolexFan

Can the forum Mods help out at all?

I've done an IP search and while it comes up as a network sharing type (not necessarily a problem), my gut feeling is just bad.

If it were me, I'd contact the bank and try to stop the payment ASAP. Then if it all turns out to be a miscommunication, make amends and continue.

Time is of the essence and all the "why did you feel this was a wise move?" type comments in the world aren't going to help.

I've flagged his account so that no further sales activity can happen but not banned it yet, allowing for him to be able to post in this thread.

[Welshwatchman]

Personally speaking, I'd never buy from the FS section.

Possibly with the exception of DavidSW and a smallest handful of others.

I'd be quite happy if it were no more. Too much heartache. Other mods/admins may disagree.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

Personally speaking, I'd never buy from the FS section.

Possibly with the exception of DavidSW and a smallest handful of others.

I'd be quite happy if it were no more. Too much heartache. Other mods/admins may disagree.

I think if you follow the simple rule of buying the seller and trusting your gut, things tend to work out. I have never had an issue buying from sellers here and been a seller myself several times now. I think it would be a terrible loss to not have a FS section.


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[JacksonStone]

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

I've done an IP search and while it comes up as a network sharing type (not necessarily a problem), my gut feeling is just bad.

Could that be a VPN?

[superstarmar]

Originally Posted by V25V

I think if you follow the simple rule of buying the seller and trusting your gut, things tend to work out. I have never had an issue buying from sellers here and been a seller myself several times now. I think it would be a terrible loss to not have a FS section.


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I agree. I'm on the same bandwagon if you will.

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by JacksonStone

Could that be a VPN?

My feeling that it is a proxy server and that the "seller" has already been correctly labeled as a miscreant.

[Fort Rolex]

I have anxiety reading this and am pulling for you to be made whole, so disheartening

Keep us posted

[CorradoBrit]

I would like to know who the references were and if established members. Did OP speak to these people in person ie on the phone?

[V25V]

Originally Posted by CorradoBrit

I would like to know who the references were and if established members. Did OP speak to these people in person ie on the phone?

My guess is email. I recall a seller from TZ trying to get me to buy a Hulk from him with references that were all email. As soon as I saw that, I knew it was a scam. Make up a bunch of fake names/emails and respond to them yourself . Brilliant!


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[jonnyz1245]

Sorry to hear of this OP. I hope you can get your funds back and I really hope this POS scammer gets what they deserve. Karma, its a B****

[CorradoBrit]

Originally Posted by V25V

My guess is email. I recall a seller from TZ trying to get me to buy a Hulk from him with references that were all email. As soon as I saw that, I knew it was a scam. Make up a bunch of fake names/emails and respond to them yourself . Brilliant!


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Yep, its that simple. Case in point was a listing for an omega 3572.50 (hesalite sandwich) on Chronocentric that caught my attention from a Val Anthony.

His one reference when I asked was this

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...47#post8868547

Closer inspection of the back showed that some of the photos were of the newer sapphire sandwich. He even faked his name and the date on a crumpled post-it to try and give it the flavor of authenticity.

The scammer then asked for my references. What a nerve.

[116710er]

CorradoBrit & V25V mention great points.

All this is probably common sense and already known method but it's always worth mentioning IMO.

You have to thoroughly check the references as much as the seller. I never trust random references. Limited email history, phone numbers that come back as IP numbers, etc. are all red flags. Also, the sellers asking where you're located is always a little red flag for me. The scammers want to know in case you ask for a face to face, so they always pick a state that's far from you.

A easy flushing method for that to have a friend or use a different email address to send the seller an message regarding the ad as if you're another buyer and when they ask you what city/state you're in, pick one that is close to the place they told you previously. Then see if they come back with a different city/state. Scammers will always pick a different state. Remember, this is a social engineering game so let the scammers "pull" you in, don't be to upfront with them (and play a different character/buyer...don't use the same form, syntax, wording, etc.)

Also, most of these scam ads have their emails plainly written out. Most real people with real "in-use" emails don't do this because of bots that scan forums for emails and put you on a spam list (unless they're old ads before people got savvy...but this works for you because it gives you a nice confirmation point for the email) Scammers openly post emails because they obviously don't care as once they complete a scam or two (remember, they might have had multiple marks going at the same time), they ditch the email account anyways.

Another thing you can do is look for the same username or email (once you've made email contact with them) on multiple forums. Many people are on multiple watch forums plus non-watch forums. If you're not on the same forums, I would sign up just to send them a PM to verify that they are selling the watch in question. I've caught several scam ads using this method which is good for catching compromised "real" accounts (via hacking/guessing/phishing/etc.)

There are plenty of other things you can do but I feel this is probably already passed TL:DR...

OP, I really do wish you luck on this. I despise scammers.

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by hoppes-no9

We have very different definitions of "established history and post count."

124 posts since joining a year ago? Multiply either of those numbers by ten and I begin to have some trust.

Post count doesn't mean anything unfortunatley. There are some great buyers and sellers who don't "chat" all day on the forums.

[freefly]

Originally Posted by jbk45

I am fairly concerned that I may have been scammed. Although i have our email correspondence, texts, and bank wire info - i know none of those are safeguards for me and I’m feeling very frustrated and helpless.

And I'd bet the number he gave you comes back as a VOIP/Google Voice number as well (red flag #1 in most cases, and the first thing I check).
Hoping your bank can get in front of this and get your money back.

[SG56]

Best of luck, op.
I hate thieves more than anything.

[rouxeny]

Good luck, i’m Pulling for you!

[jvmartin]

6 pictures of a $17,000 watch? 4 references? Light Pace Courier Service? This didn't even come close to passing the basic sniff test and got worse and worse as it got along... I think I remember the car accident excuse being used in a different scam on this same forum... in any case... the For Sale section is not to blame here...

[MinMay]

sigh...

I think it's too easy for scammers to come on this forum and post a for sale ad. :(

Maybe only allow members to post a sale ad with proof? (picture of watch with member screen name with current date) and eBay or verified PayPal account?

Most scammers do not own the watch...using someone's else pictures.