Rolex Submariner 1680 Full set, thoughts?

[Mansell92]

Hi, what are your thoughts on this piece currently on offer? I have some concerns regarding the dial and hands.

[btinl]

Dial looks fake. Insert is AM. Avoid.

[Mansell92]

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VINTAGE-...59.m2763.l2649

[Mansell92]

Thanks, yes I had somes doubts as soon as I looked at it.

[TimeToGo]

.
This belongs in the Watchout section..

[Mansell92]

So its definitely a fake dial and hands? The seller is very adamant they are both authentic.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Mansell92

So its definitely a fake dial and hands? The seller is very adamant they are both authentic.

The dial is fake. If he’s adamant it’s not it’s either because he doesn’t know anything about red 1680 dial variants, or he does know and his hoping to fool some sucker.

[gasparantonio]

The serial number doesn’t match since it must be a case for meters first according to my experience with this watch and the many watches I have seen and the most accurate information is on the web where you can find it.

The dial is also very strange and the fonts I don’t see them also very clear to confirm, can you please send more photos moving the hands so I can see the crown and the alignment of the letter L With the crown.

And the last thing is that the patina also doesn’t match the white hands, so this is also a Point to take into account on the price.

Finally, how much are they asking for this piece so I can give you MHO.

BR

[J!m]

Interesting to note it still has a 700 crown but clearly has been polished based on the upper crown guard condition, and also wears a 93150 bracelet.

So, it was serviced at some point, and got a heavy polish and new bracelet, but the old 700 was put back on? No. I don't think so. It had a 703 most likely and a 700 crown and tube were installed. Not even a nice 700 crown...

Does the serial on the punched papers match the case serial?

It might be a decent collection of parts, but not a correct watch, and therefore, not worth the top dollar the seller is undoubtedly asking for it. Also back side of case, to examine any corrosion and bracelet wear.

A photo of the movement serial and inside the case back would help to determine if they are authentic/age appropriate.

I'd pay no more than five grand if I could verify the parts I suspect are genuine, to actually be genuine. Maybe a couple hundred more for the papers, assuming the numbers all match. If the seller is asking any more than that (and especially if you can't do most of your own work on it) just find another one.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by gasparantonio

The serial number doesn’t match since it must be a case for meters first according to my experience with this watch and the many watches I have seen and the most accurate information is on the web where you can find it.

The dial is also very strange and the fonts I don’t see them also very clear to confirm, can you please send more photos moving the hands so I can see the crown and the alignment of the letter L With the crown.

And the last thing is that the patina also doesn’t match the white hands, so this is also a Point to take into account on the price.

Finally, how much are they asking for this piece so I can give you MHO.

BR

Not that it really matters, because that dial is bad, but the 2.5 million cases were at the beginning of the feet-first red 1680 dials, so that part could be OK. The rest .... not so much.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by gasparantonio

The dial is also very strange and the fonts I don’t see them also very clear to confirm, can you please send more photos moving the hands so I can see the crown and the alignment of the letter L With the crown.

There's no reason to further check the alignment. Just look at the word SUBMARINER and how skewed to the right it is. All the printing is wrong. Compare it to any of the three feet-first variants.







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[Swearengen]

+1 Submariner alignment is the key tell for me. What little I can see of the L in Rolex looks too far to the left.

Originally Posted by Kingface66

There's no reason to further check the alignment. Just look at the word SUBMARINER and how skewed to the right it is. All the printing is wrong. Compare it to any of the three feet-first variants.







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[edtheaussie]

What's the value impact of the dial not being original? - or I guess what does a red sub dial go for these days?

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

There's no reason to further check the alignment. Just look at the word SUBMARINER and how skewed to the right it is. All the printing is wrong. Compare it to any of the three feet-first variants.







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Yep, it looks like the word Submariner agrees the dial is hideous and is attempting to run away.


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[Mansell92]

Originally Posted by southtexas

Yep, it looks like the word Submariner agrees the dial is hideous and is attempting to run away.


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lol, yes it looked off and terribly faint also.

The seller was asking $32,000AUD, so $23,000USD

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by Mansell92

lol, yes it looked off and terribly faint also.



The seller was asking $32,000AUD, so $23,000USD

I saw the listing was pulled. Maybe he finally realized dial was off, or someone reported him and got it pulled.


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[Mansell92]

Some more photos

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Mansell92

Some more photos

How did you get these additional photos after the listing was pulled? And you do understand that the dial is not authentic, yes?

[Mansell92]

Yes, a few of us noticed it and told him. This was an easy one to be honest, just the wonky font and off centre Submariner gave it away. During those discussions he sent me more photos as he was sure it was legit.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Mansell92

Yes, a few of us noticed it and told him. This was an easy one to be honest, just the wonky font and off centre Submariner gave it away. During those discussions he sent me more photos as he was sure it was legit.

Yeah, I understand that (I was the one who posted the pics of the correct dial variations) but after it was established as a fake dial (and a pulled auction) I wasn’t understanding why you’d bother posting more pictures

[Mr_A_Love_Rolex]

Any idea of value as is ?

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Mr_A_Love_Rolex

Any idea of value as is ?

The entire package appears to be put-together and so it is neither original or authentic as a Red-Sub.

The cost to put this watch "right" would be exorbitant; this is a classic Frankenwatch; something put together to appear as something it is/was not.

[Fredrik]

The newer band with Seadweller end links also suggests that this probably started as just a case and nothing else.

[Dangur]

Doing a mishmash of fake and original parts, whats the point?!

[cajuntiger]

Originally Posted by edtheaussie

What's the value impact of the dial not being original? - or I guess what does a red sub dial go for these days?

Its a huge red flag...imo it means do not even ask these questions.
The dial is the watch, the impact is significant and it only draws attention to many other issues with this watch. So why bother even considering this question?

My .02- if you cant tell the difference DO NOT BUY ON EBAY. If you have a hard time understanding the nuances of these pieces you are far better off long term buying from a reputable dealer and paying more for a solid example.

[Mansell92]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

Its a huge red flag...imo it means do not even ask these questions.
The dial is the watch, the impact is significant and it only draws attention to many other issues with this watch. So why bother even considering this question?

My .02- if you cant tell the difference DO NOT BUY ON EBAY. If you have a hard time understanding the nuances of these pieces you are far better off long term buying from a reputable dealer and paying more for a solid example.

I knew it was a fake dial as soon as I saw it. The seller didnt believe me. So I created this thread and forwarded him the link and told him to check it in a few hours.

He took the watch down pretty quickly after having my initial observations validated.

[Mansell92]

Originally Posted by Mr_A_Love_Rolex

Any idea of value as is ?

This is actually the owner of the watch. My mate told me he is chucking a white dial in it now which is confirmed by this post:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=651369

I guess we will wait watch and see what face this Frankenstein watch has in the coming weeks.

[Mr_A_Love_Rolex]

People that know me are very well aware I am no scammer. The watch I pulled down with an hour! As your title says Red Sub 1680 Full set, it will soon be. All period correct and 100% genuine. I have the number one expert in Australia helping me... I made a mistake sure I won't go into details. But so did you, you made me several offers on eBay for this watch when it had a fake dial. So much for someone that claims that it was so obvious and the font was so off!

[Mansell92]

My offers were 10k under your asking price as I took into account the fake dial

[1665fan]

Lol hilarious, when you get the new red dial show us pics lol