The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Other (non-Rolex) Watch Topics > Patek Philippe Discussion Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 28 May 2016, 11:33 PM   #61
GB-man
2024 Pledge Member
 
GB-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: USA
Watch: addiction issues
Posts: 36,815
Quote:
Originally Posted by roma1280 View Post
I'm fine with being a lunatic, I own old cars that make no sense. But I guess I am seeking some validation that if I spend $135,000 on a new 5270 that three years from now I'm not going to have lost half my money because the president of the company has made silly comments that have spooked collectors.
Yes but old cars are no longer being produced. 5270s are. If you want that sort of security, buy a 5004,2499,5970,5070
GB-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 May 2016, 11:53 PM   #62
roma1280
"TRF" Member
 
roma1280's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Real Name: Mark
Location: New York / Rome
Watch: 5970g
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by GB-man View Post
Yes but old cars are no longer being produced. 5270s are. If you want that sort of security, buy a 5004,2499,5970,5070
Yes agree thank you. I'm leaning towards 5970 for a first purchase. Platinum with black dial.
Having bad thoughts about 5207p but really struggling to find out where they are trading. I'm obsessed with minute repeaters. Expensive watches make classic cars look like a transparent market! I think there is a 5207p coming up for auction this week.
roma1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 12:00 AM   #63
eco8gator
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Florida
Watch: 5060/a
Posts: 1,119
If they put that tourbillon was put in a classic looking Monaco and the Caliber 11 button configuration as maintained it would be a sports watch killer.

JB has shown that he is crazy enough to release a swiss made tourbillon at a good price (in comparison to others regardless of how well or who finishes it).

He needs to change his mind set a little because he is still stuck in Hublot land and is making funky looking watches....he needs to keep it classic but integrate the tourbillon.

Consider how Rolex does very little with their watches I tourbillon based Monaco with the classic Cal 11 button configuration and dial over a Rolex Ceramic Daytona.

Comparing this to anything haute is just silly...not even in the same league.
eco8gator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 01:29 AM   #64
Greenp
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 223
I think the the cheap TAG tourbillion legitimatizes the cheap tourbillion. The tourbillion becomes a commodity. To most people how can a high end tourbillion be worth $100K+ more than the TAG. People might scrutinize the prices of high end watches and find them lacking.
Greenp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 02:22 AM   #65
KarlS
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Real Name: Karl
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 5,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenp View Post
I think the the cheap TAG tourbillion legitimatizes the cheap tourbillion. The tourbillion becomes a commodity. To most people how can a high end tourbillion be worth $100K+ more than the TAG. People might scrutinize the prices of high end watches and find them lacking.
Doubt it!! You think Tag brought out a $10000 minute repeater PP would fall to its knees? Crumpets JLC / Breguet all have watches with alarms etc etc and they are all significant higher up the value chain than Tag!
KarlS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 02:50 AM   #66
andynj
"TRF" Member
 
andynj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: NJ
Watch: Rolex Daytona
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by beshannon View Post


And again I disagree.

There is a premium with a Patek for a reason. No point was missed at all.

Those who want a Tag should buy one. Those who want a Patek understand the difference.
Of course there is a reason for a Patek premium. Question is how wide should the premium be and will that premium be "re-priced".
andynj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 04:11 AM   #67
Socal to az
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by andynj View Post
Of course there is a reason for a Patek premium. Question is how wide should the premium be and will that premium be "re-priced".
No. It will not be repriced.

Curious- Those of you comparing Patek to a TAG- do you actually own a Patek?

I recall the iwatch was going to kill high end luxury watches as well. Guess not.
Socal to az is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 12:27 PM   #68
roma1280
"TRF" Member
 
roma1280's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Real Name: Mark
Location: New York / Rome
Watch: 5970g
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socal to az View Post
No. It will not be repriced
Really? Not at all? I understand there is a natural tendency to be defensive about Patek for those invested in the marque either emotionally or through ownership. But do you honestly think there will be no impact? Please take this question at face value. I value the opinions here.
I have one Patek but love the brand and want to buy much more. I know prices are somewhat softer in line with other collectibles, but I'm just trying to figure out if a more significant adjustment might be coming.
Could a 5970p drop from $180k to $100k?
Could other significant watches drop?
roma1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 01:03 PM   #69
KarlS
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Real Name: Karl
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 5,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by roma1280 View Post
Really? Not at all? I understand there is a natural tendency to be defensive about Patek for those invested in the marque either emotionally or through ownership. But do you honestly think there will be no impact? Please take this question at face value. I value the opinions here.
I have one Patek but love the brand and want to buy much more. I know prices are somewhat softer in line with other collectibles, but I'm just trying to figure out if a more significant adjustment might be coming.
Could a 5970p drop from $180k to $100k?
Could other significant watches drop?
No because people who want a Patek want a Patek. They don't want a Tag!! So they are not going to do a Tag irrespective of the complication! So as long as there is a demand for PP exceeding supply prices won't drop
KarlS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 01:25 PM   #70
Socal to az
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by roma1280 View Post
Really? Not at all? I understand there is a natural tendency to be defensive about Patek for those invested in the marque either emotionally or through ownership. But do you honestly think there will be no impact? Please take this question at face value. I value the opinions here.
I have one Patek but love the brand and want to buy much more. I know prices are somewhat softer in line with other collectibles, but I'm just trying to figure out if a more significant adjustment might be coming.
Could a 5970p drop from $180k to $100k?
Could other significant watches drop?
I don't know what the market will do with regards to prices. What I can tell you is that a tag is not going to have any affect on the price of a Patek.


If you are going to drop 180k on a watch, are you really concerned about a tag? Really?
Socal to az is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 02:13 PM   #71
KarlS
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Real Name: Karl
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 5,228
I think it may change Tag's game in its own price range...so if you looking for a decent $ 15k watch will this make you choose a Tag versus say Oris?
KarlS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 02:26 PM   #72
GMT13
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: LA
Posts: 165
At $15k, you can get a Hublot (less Tourb) which is something to think about because materials, movement, etc...yes can still give you the animation provided with the Tourb.

I personally think this is a Marketing gimmick to 1) increase publicity of Tag and 2) showcase the "value" offerings of the brand.

It would not be surprising to see a $15k split seconds, or a $15k minute repeater next.
GMT13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 02:38 PM   #73
el1125
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 3,578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socal to az View Post
No. It will not be repriced.

Curious- Those of you comparing Patek to a TAG- do you actually own a Patek?

I recall the iwatch was going to kill high end luxury watches as well. Guess not.
This must be the dumbest thread on TRF
el1125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 05:30 PM   #74
KarlS
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Real Name: Karl
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 5,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by el1125 View Post
This must be the dumbest thread on TRF
However it's a toss up with the one on why AP might be more expensive than Rolex...very close to call
KarlS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 May 2016, 06:05 PM   #75
Socal to az
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Arizona
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by el1125 View Post
This must be the dumbest thread on TRF
Haven't read all the threads but yeah- this one is super dumb.
Socal to az is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 01:41 AM   #76
roma1280
"TRF" Member
 
roma1280's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Real Name: Mark
Location: New York / Rome
Watch: 5970g
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by el1125 View Post
This must be the dumbest thread on TRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socal to az View Post
Haven't read all the threads but yeah- this one is super dumb.
I think the defensiveness I'm seeing here makes me feel more strongly that prices will be impacted.
Patek is known for its complications. A competitor (however inferior) has come out with a complication that is priced at a fraction of the price that Patek charges. Conventional wisdom is that Pateks are expensive/valuable because of the work that is required to make them. TAG (and presumably other will follow), has called BS and Patek owners only resort to name calling. Interesting.
roma1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 01:58 AM   #77
KarlS
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Real Name: Karl
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 5,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by roma1280 View Post
I think the defensiveness I'm seeing here makes me feel more strongly that prices will be impacted.
Patek is known for its complications. A competitor (however inferior) has come out with a complication that is priced at a fraction of the price that Patek charges. Conventional wisdom is that Pateks are expensive/valuable because of the work that is required to make them. TAG (and presumably other will follow), has called BS and Patek owners only resort to name calling. Interesting.
I am hoping you are not being serious in your comments but rather contentious in order to get the debate going. Very simple Patek are not only known for their complications. They are known as haute horology in all their models. They churn out 12000 Quartz watches a year that people prefer to pay a premium for versus the hundreds of millions of Quartz watches being churned out in the rest of the world. Tag or Oris or Sinn bringing out a tour billion, repeater, perpetual at $15000 is not going to make one iota of difference to Patek as has been explained in numerous posts above
KarlS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 02:11 AM   #78
martinr
"TRF" Member
 
martinr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: California
Posts: 3,097
roma1280, we need to know why you want to buy a 5970P for $180K. Are you going to wear it or are you buying for investment? A couple weeks ago in another thread you were a complete novice regarding Patek and now you're going to base your decision to buy a 180K Patek on a Tag tourbillion price? JLC has a perpetual calendar for under 25K and that hasn't killed the price of the 5970 so why would you think the Tag price would? As far as Thierry Stern making comments about the Tag, who knows what motivated him to say anything, maybe he had a few glasses of champagne and was asked leading questions or maybe everyone has made more of his remarks then then he intended. I seriously doubt he's concerned about Tag pricing having an effect on Patek and their position in the market.
martinr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 02:11 AM   #79
Hollister
Banned
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Real Name: James
Location: UK
Watch: 114300
Posts: 1,750
Quote:
Originally Posted by roma1280 View Post
I think the defensiveness I'm seeing here makes me feel more strongly that prices will be impacted.
Patek is known for its complications. A competitor (however inferior) has come out with a complication that is priced at a fraction of the price that Patek charges. Conventional wisdom is that Pateks are expensive/valuable because of the work that is required to make them. TAG (and presumably other will follow), has called BS and Patek owners only resort to name calling. Interesting.
The current watch won't impact Patek at all. If TAG could get rid of the oafish and unimaginative Biver, and design a tourbillon watch which looks even remotely presentable in polite company, I'd quite like one.
Hollister is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 03:19 AM   #80
roma1280
"TRF" Member
 
roma1280's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Real Name: Mark
Location: New York / Rome
Watch: 5970g
Posts: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlS View Post
I am hoping you are not being serious in your comments but rather contentious in order to get the debate going.
Yes of course. Trying to get a lively debate going! I love Patek, I was just curious when pressed what afficandoas would say about the pricing. I appreciate all the comments and feedback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinr View Post
roma1280, we need to know why you want to buy a 5970P for $180K. Are you going to wear it or are you buying for investment? A couple weeks ago in another thread you were a complete novice regarding Patek and now you're going to base your decision to buy a 180K Patek on a Tag tourbillion price?
I would buy it and wear it everyday. Just like I drive my old cars as much as possible. I want to enjoy the watches as much as possible. What I would like to do is do what I have done with cars, which is to be knowledgable about what I am buying and buy only iconic, desirable cars that have good history and limited production. This gives you the best of both worlds, you can have unlimited enjoyment and in the long run you are unlikely to lose money and most likely you will make money.
I am a Patek novice but thanks to the helpful comments here and by talking to a couple of friends who know a lot more than me, I think I am starting to get an idea of what to do.

These are my thoughts so far:
For investment I think iconic watches that are no longer in production are the place to start. The exception to that are premium pieces made in very limited numbers.

As is generally the case with cars, I think the more you spend, the safer your money is. But if you have a collection concentrated in a limited number of very important pieces, you really need to know what you are doing and what you are buying.

I think the combination of complications is important. I was admonished in another thread for suggesting that the combination of complications in the 5208 for example seemed illogical; perpetual calendar and minute repeater are great, but then adding a chrono seemed illogical as that is more for sports watches that traditionally would be waterproof. It's one of those "just because they can doesn't mean they should" sort of things.

I think the really vintage, extremely limited, super expensive watches are a category unto themselves and something I know nothing about at present (e.g. platinum 2499 etc).

So what to buy?
As trivial as this may sound, I think size is an important consideration. I believe the largest Patek is 42mm and this will be too large for some. The smaller pieces can be difficult to wear too, unless you have a very small wrist. For example I love the 3970 but I tried one on the other day and for me at least, it would be unwearable at 36mm.
So what size will stand the test of time? This is a Rolex forum so let's use the Daytona at 40mm as a benchmark size. I think 1 or 2 mm either side is a size that will stand the test of time.
I think the 5970p is a gem, it seems to be almost perfect and to check all the boxes.
I think 5207p is great. It's limited production, has great combo of complications, I think you can wear it every day. It's understated - only a watch person would know what it is. It's not a traditional design with the honey dial and decorated lugs but it talks to me and I'm obsessed with the minute repeater complication. I ask my kids to tell me the time in minute repeater gongs and dings. There is one other principle from car collecting that I think applies too - buy what you love.
After this I think I would add a split second chrono. But I don't know much about those yet. Maybe a 5004g, I hear too many 5004p were made. Need more reaearch. That would be the best part of $1m and probably a good place to take a breath.
Those are the thoughts so far.
roma1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 03:20 AM   #81
roma1280
"TRF" Member
 
roma1280's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Real Name: Mark
Location: New York / Rome
Watch: 5970g
Posts: 115
Ps I don't think TAG will affect Patek prices
roma1280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 03:46 AM   #82
KarlS
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Real Name: Karl
Location: Kuwait
Posts: 5,228
Quote:
Originally Posted by roma1280 View Post
Ps I don't think TAG will affect Patek prices
a relief....I was struggling at the end
KarlS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 04:58 AM   #83
jon_jon
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,340
It seems like there is a lot of speculation going on here and it is all good banter.

AFAIK Patek was never a big player in the "simple" tourbillon market. None of Patek's tourbillons are visible on the dial side. It was only included in a watch with other complications, whether it be a minute repeater, perptual calendar, a 10-day PR, or something else. I don't think there has been a Patek tourbillon produced within the past 10 years that was priced under $300K USD and many of them list for close to $1mil USD.

However there was a thread on the watches (non-Rolex) section here on TRF about Frederique Constant introducing a perpetual calendar at Basel 2016 for under $10K USD ($8350 CHF according to Hodinkee's article). I would legitimately ask the question of whether a perpetual calendar under $10K USD would challenge a traditional powerhouse like Patek. I recently started a thread mentioning the JLC perpetual calendar in SS for under $20K USD. I personally think these watches target different price brackets and do not compete head on with each other, but that is just my humble opinion.
jon_jon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 06:37 AM   #84
Alford78
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Western KY
Posts: 501
Wow. I'm a realitively noob but this is like saying Rolls Royce will be concerned about BMW, Cadillac, Audi etc... You pay for the name along with its past reputation in the market. No watch should be bought as an investment to begin with. Same as classic cars. They shouldn't be bought as an investment. To each their own but I think Tag did well even though it's a far cry from well detailed Tourbs even though it would still be cool to watch it go round and round.
Alford78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 06:44 AM   #85
Alford78
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Western KY
Posts: 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_jon View Post
It seems like there is a lot of speculation going on here and it is all good banter.

AFAIK Patek was never a big player in the "simple" tourbillon market. None of Patek's tourbillons are visible on the dial side. It was only included in a watch with other complications, whether it be a minute repeater, perptual calendar, a 10-day PR, or something else. I don't think there has been a Patek tourbillon produced within the past 10 years that was priced under $300K USD and many of them list for close to $1mil USD.

However there was a thread on the watches (non-Rolex) section here on TRF about Frederique Constant introducing a perpetual calendar at Basel 2016 for under $10K USD ($8350 CHF according to Hodinkee's article). I would legitimately ask the question of whether a perpetual calendar under $10K USD would challenge a traditional powerhouse like Patek. I recently started a thread mentioning the JLC perpetual calendar in SS for under $20K USD. I personally think these watches target different price brackets and do not compete head on with each other, but that is just my humble opinion.
If you compare any of the dial layouts with Pateks Perp Calendars to the cheaper ones you'll quickly notice why they are so much cheaper. The small grouping of the sub dials really kills the look and is far easier to produce (from my limited knowledge) than the larger further spaced out dials that are also are true sub dial and not just a circle painted on the dial. Take a look at the differences and then ask yourself if you would really wear a perp that looks like the majority of the cheaper ones.

I myself could purchase the cheaper ones today no loss or struggle but would never be happy with any of them after awing over the higher end models. There is just too much difference between them and would rather have a simple complication in the $10k-$25k range that really speaks to me that would be worn very often. The perp calendar is my second favorite complication behind a repeater so that speaks volumes about my opinion. But like everything it's just my opinion and everyone has one.
Alford78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 07:20 AM   #86
jon_jon
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 4,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alford78 View Post
If you compare any of the dial layouts with Pateks Perp Calendars to the cheaper ones you'll quickly notice why they are so much cheaper. The small grouping of the sub dials really kills the look and is far easier to produce (from my limited knowledge) than the larger further spaced out dials that are also are true sub dial and not just a circle painted on the dial. Take a look at the differences and then ask yourself if you would really wear a perp that looks like the majority of the cheaper ones.

I myself could purchase the cheaper ones today no loss or struggle but would never be happy with any of them after awing over the higher end models. There is just too much difference between them and would rather have a simple complication in the $10k-$25k range that really speaks to me that would be worn very often. The perp calendar is my second favorite complication behind a repeater so that speaks volumes about my opinion. But like everything it's just my opinion and everyone has one.
Your comments about the subdials are quite interesting I must say.

I went back and looked at online photos of the Frederique Constant PC and the Montblanc PC and the subdials do look somewhat "crowded" towards the center of the watch. Part of that may be FCs large 42mm case, but Montblanc PC is not that huge at 39mm.

I do feel JLC's new PC, although at a higher price range than the FC and Montblanc, has nicer spacing of the subdials and they have incorporated a new movement in their PCs since 2013.

I do feel the Patek 3940, 5140, 5327 series are a special grouping and they really stand apart from PCs from other manufacturers. But then I may be a little biased since I am an owner
jon_jon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 08:01 AM   #87
Racerdj
2024 Pledge Member
 
Racerdj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Indianapolis
Watch: Patek-Philippe
Posts: 16,832
Well written!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_jon View Post
I doubt Patek is worried about Tag's tourbillon. Patek makes very few tourbillons and all of them come with other complications, putting them in a totally different market.

I actually applaud Tag for trying out new things like the Smart watch and I am more curious to how that will affect the rest of the Swiss watch industry, meaning if others will jump in.
__________________
Rolex and Patek Philippe
Racerdj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 08:20 AM   #88
Alford78
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Western KY
Posts: 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by jon_jon View Post
Your comments about the subdials are quite interesting I must say.

I went back and looked at online photos of the Frederique Constant PC and the Montblanc PC and the subdials do look somewhat "crowded" towards the center of the watch. Part of that may be FCs large 42mm case, but Montblanc PC is not that huge at 39mm.

I do feel JLC's new PC, although at a higher price range than the FC and Montblanc, has nicer spacing of the subdials and they have incorporated a new movement in their PCs since 2013.

I do feel the Patek 3940, 5140, 5327 series are a special grouping and they really stand apart from PCs from other manufacturers. But then I may be a little biased since I am an owner
I like JLC as a brand and would own many of their watches but their Perp Cal dials just lack detail compared to the ones that speak to me. It's like the sub dials are just a plain circle with no other thought put into them. Even some sort of detail around the edge or markings would really improve the look to me. But I'm also an engineer and architect so the little things stick out to me much more than they do to some others I would think.

As far as the smaller grouping being easier to produce I don't remember where I read it but I was reading an article somewhere that mentioned it.
Alford78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 08:27 AM   #89
Alford78
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Western KY
Posts: 501
As far as smart watches. We will be limited to battery capacity for quite some time most likely but when users aren't required to constantly recharge their watches daily things should change I would think.
Alford78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30 May 2016, 10:41 PM   #90
enjoythemusic
2024 Pledge Member
 
enjoythemusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Real Name: Steven
Location: Glocal
Posts: 19,265
You guy do know there are ~$20k repeaters and obviously the Tag Tourbillion. I have a feeling the point being these very old technologies are not that expensive to implement nowadays. As for the quality of implementation or perceived value of using that technology within a timepiece, that is another matter entirely. There is quite a bit of perception that seems to go into the pricing of luxury goods. If the confidence of perceived value is reduced it can negatively affect the pricing of a luxury goods manufacturer's products on both the new and used market.

Think of it like the assumed value/buying power of goods and services of a FIAT currency, there is a known factor of keeping the confidence game going to the masses. Perhaps this is why some manufacturers like to bid quite highly on their used pieces. It keeps the perception going.
__________________
__________________
“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming 'Wow! What a Ride!'” -- Hunter S. Thompson

Sent from my Etch A Sketch using String Theory.
enjoythemusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

Asset Appeal

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.