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21 October 2019, 06:37 AM | #61 | |
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21 October 2019, 06:41 AM | #62 |
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With the advances of science there is reconstruction procedures these days. It's called Laser Welding Reconstruction "surgery". You can be a virgin as many times as you want.
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=704197 |
21 October 2019, 06:44 AM | #63 | |
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https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/a-...it-introducing Hell you may need to auction it to get your money back but there's a chance you won't lose 50% |
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21 October 2019, 06:46 AM | #64 |
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21 October 2019, 06:48 AM | #65 |
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I feel like there are a lot of misconceptions because of the recent price escalations on hot models. Historically Rolex and Patek has always performed better in resale but that doesn't apply to 90%+ of the lineup. Much of the lore imo is falsely perpetuated through vintage auctions making people today think buying a datejust or perpetual calendar is some sort of investment...... At the end of the day it's a luxury product and you buy in expecting losses. No one likes losing money but I think it goes with the territory buying luxury watches (much like exotic cars). If you want to speculate, you should be buying vintage and timing the market.
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21 October 2019, 06:48 AM | #66 | |
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21 October 2019, 06:49 AM | #67 | |
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21 October 2019, 06:53 AM | #68 | |
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This is significant below expectations. |
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21 October 2019, 06:53 AM | #69 | |
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So if you have done your homework? thoughts om the 5231? |
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21 October 2019, 06:55 AM | #70 | |
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When realized vs expected is that far off its disappointing. |
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21 October 2019, 06:59 AM | #71 |
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I have a true dog the 5930 which I.like very much. Bought in Dec 2016 at retail for £48000 and after VAT was £40300. At today's exchange rates that's about $52000. If I got $45-50k for it (ignore time value of money) I would be ecstatic for the annual cost of ownership.
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21 October 2019, 07:00 AM | #72 |
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21 October 2019, 07:01 AM | #73 | |
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21 October 2019, 07:11 AM | #74 |
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too early to tell but i think it will not be super appreciated by the market. the R model will probably do better. nevertheless i will take it, just to have a dress watch. i lost the 5170P to my wife:::)))
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21 October 2019, 07:13 AM | #75 |
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21 October 2019, 07:28 AM | #76 | |
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i am being offered a 5131P (AD, at retail obviously), but i won't take it. special application piece and all that, nevertheless it is kind of a dog IMHO, the 5231 is much nicer. i asked for a 5726A and they offered me the 5131P, think of that. it tells you something about the state of PP dress watches/special application pieces. |
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21 October 2019, 07:38 AM | #77 | |
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For everyone reading... that’s the secret sauce to get the world time Lol |
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21 October 2019, 07:39 AM | #78 | |
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Second, holding period does affect realized depreciation - it most certainly does, in nominal terms at least. If you hold for a while, Patek will likely raise prices (there have been years when they raised by a lot, actually), thus raising the resale prices of current/recent references along with them. For example, when I bought my 5035R back in the day, list price was 18k (and I paid much less than that at AD), but by the time I sold, list price for the replacement model 5146 had reached 28k and steadily increased after that as well, thus propping up the market value of the older 5035 along with it. Yes, those were the good old days. But even now, for sake of argument, even the current 5205 (in black or white dials, not the early 2-tone gray dials which are far less desirable) has seen its list price go up nearly 20% over the past 2 years (which saw 2 price hikes on it). So those that bought a 5205R 2 1/2 or 3 years ago with a 10-15% discount at AD and no sales tax (both of which can be readily achieved on "normal" references), are not facing the same depreciation as somebody who bought the exact same watch last month at AD full list price, as both watches in mint condition command rather similar prices in resale value. Also sometimes, if you hold for a while, you may get lucky and have your reference get discontinued, and if it's a reasonably well-liked reference, that will also help prop up the resale value (thus also lowering your depreciation). Of course, all this is in nominal dollars, nor real dollars (nor factoring in opportunity cost). That's a different ballgame altogether - that's investing. Here, I'm only talking about the expected "cost of ownership" for luxury watches, Patek in particular, which are not intended to be financial instruments and shouldn't be measured as such. Point is, you will likely take a hit if you're a quick-flip buy/seller on a new "normal" Patek. But if you're taking a 50% hit, the problem is likely something else in addition to the expected cost of ownership - there are probably other compounding factors involved as well (paying full AD dollar + sales tax on the buy, a short flipping period + convenience-sales-price on the sell, etc). |
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21 October 2019, 07:48 AM | #79 | |
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I love u buddy and I enjoy the debate... 1) But I have a 5930G I paid 75.3k it’s selling 55k roughly at greys... which means for me it would be 42k or -55%. This is the only data point I can offer. 2) not sure why it should go up in value from here. |
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21 October 2019, 07:53 AM | #80 |
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Yikes. Well, if you become poor after selling your Patek and want to buy another, I heard Tierry Stern say boutiques will start taking food stamps.
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21 October 2019, 07:56 AM | #81 | |
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Lol I grew up in the ghettos buddy. It’s not beneath me... can u imagine me walking into an AD with $75k worth of pennies... it’s not beneath me. Lol |
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21 October 2019, 08:12 AM | #82 |
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Dress watches get you access to the tough stuff, which end up covering the losses on the dress watches.
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21 October 2019, 08:20 AM | #83 | |
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Looks like you might have paid list for your 5930G, plus maybe sales tax, would that be a safe assumption? Also that model was launched just 3 years ago, so obtaining a discount 2-3 years ago may have been difficult (but not unheard of). Buying it new today at AD probably would get a better discount than when it was launched (Jomashop has it new at $59.8, which gives an idea of what an AD discount could approximate now). Also, you might be able to get more than 42k for it now (assuming it's mint, which I'm sure yours is). Point is, on your 5930G, it seems there may have been additional compounding factors (buying at full-load on a newly/recently introduced reference) which put you in an unusually wide spread between the buy/sell price for that particular reference. It's also an expensive, complicated piece for which the potential market is rather limited to begin with. Had you bought a 5205R for say $38k at AD 3 years ago, I bet you could get over $19k (over 50%) back today. Same for a 5146, or several of the calatravas (assuming an aggressively priced purchase at AD, of course). Either way: your 5930G is a stunning watch. And your 5711/1R is straight-up awesome. Enjoy and savor them, those are truly special pieces. |
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21 October 2019, 08:33 AM | #84 |
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BTW, if I'm understanding your statement correctly, a $42k sell price on a $75.3k buy = -45% depreciation (not -55%). So I just saved you 10%. You can thank me later :-).
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21 October 2019, 08:34 AM | #85 | |
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Actually I’m been responding in between work today as I read up on this Brexit thing. Actually the 5930G was bought in the summer... no taxes, no discount. I only bought it to secure the 5711a for my self. The bundle left a bad taste in my mouth TBH. Asking VIP’s to bundle really irked me. |
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21 October 2019, 08:35 AM | #86 |
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21 October 2019, 08:43 AM | #87 | |
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21 October 2019, 08:53 AM | #88 | |
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Well, in that case, part of the unusually wide spread you're experiencing on the 5930G should probably be attributed to the cost of your 5711a (rather than taken solely as deep depreciation on the 5930G). Seems like you were coerced into a full-load buy price on the 5930G in order to obtain the 5711a, when otherwise you might have been able to secure a decent discount on the 5930G if purchased alone. So the depreciation isn't really all depreciation...if you think about it, part of it is actually hidden/transferred purchase price on the nauti. Excessive depreciation mystery solved. :-) |
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21 October 2019, 08:53 AM | #89 | ||
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I once paid a $40 parking ticket in pennies. Bastards ticketed me in a paid lot. Quote:
Until the high flying sports pieces return to sanity then the VIP are left holding the bag.
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21 October 2019, 09:30 AM | #90 |
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In.the UK you definitely cant get "offered" a 5131P or a 5231 and if you are able to get both, your standing with Rhone is such that a 5726 is a piece of cake!!! The 5131P has unofficially been discontinued so they not taking any new names. You can request either watch and Rhone will decide but as for the dealer having them to allocate, def not as far as I know. The 5131R is still strong. Look at the latest Sotheby Hong Kong sale prices. The 5131P has always been weaker due to its price point and of course the bracelet which splits desirability. I think it can be bought at circa $145k on the grey market.
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