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Old 21 April 2021, 08:29 PM   #31
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Not in my household. Nope. Never.
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Old 21 April 2021, 09:33 PM   #32
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No, with the permanent change to workplace/teleworking and the ever-growing casual world, so-called "dress watches" will remain a shrinking niche. But, that doesn't mean you can't enjoy yours.
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Old 21 April 2021, 09:42 PM   #33
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I would like them to promote a new niche—the rugged go anywhere dress watch.
For instance, 5205G AC on either a slender beautifully crafted metal bracelet or a water-resistant modern appearing strap. Or provide multiple straps/bracelets as options for each model and let the client decide when and where they’d like to modify the look and feel of their watch. Seems to me would be a very nice new revenue stream for PP. Just ask Ferrari and Porsche how much profit they garner from their option lists.
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Old 21 April 2021, 09:48 PM   #34
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Sadly these days most people are looking at watches as an investment / value retention instead of buying watches they genuinely enjoy to wear and own. Short term profit takers and latest trend style buyers will always go sport vs dress watches.
There are still a few keen collectors out there who appreciate manual wind and are in for the long haul. The good news is, there are plenty bargains to be had for fans of intricate manual wind and special pieces if buying pre owned. These pieces will go up a lot over time in my opinion. Patek 5170, 5270 for example plus the older 3940, 5196 calatrava etc.
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Old 21 April 2021, 09:56 PM   #35
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I would like them to promote a new niche—the rugged go anywhere dress watch.
For instance, 5205G AC on either a slender beautifully crafted metal bracelet or a water-resistant modern appearing strap. Or provide multiple straps/bracelets as options for each model and let the client decide when and where they’d like to modify the look and feel of their watch. Seems to me would be a very nice new revenue stream for PP. Just ask Ferrari and Porsche how much profit they garner from their option lists.
Yes, the Vacheron switchable strap system is really a good idea, makes the watch wear very differently depending on the situation.
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Old 21 April 2021, 10:18 PM   #36
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Are we also witnessing the revenge of the suit and tie fighting back against PJ’s and sweatpants?

Suits plus dress watch plus news that FPJ going boutique only makes for a small but fun inflection point.
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Old 21 April 2021, 11:10 PM   #37
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I like your style sir. As I'm still in my early thirties, the only point I differ in is that you would need to be a certain age to wear that.
I couldn't afford a PP when I was thirty, but thinking about it, if I'd had one then I'm sure I would have worn it, so you're right.

I think the dive watch craze as bling only took off in the last 15yrs, they've been around for a long time but they weren't considered hot or bling and in my experience it would have been very uncool to wear one with a properly tailored suit/tux before then, you might have gotten away with an Omega Speedy but a Submariner at a black tie event would have been frowned upon.

The Nautilus (in my opinion) always straddled the dress watch vs sporty dive watch gap, it's neither really and fits in both realms, that's why it's stood the test of time for so long, it simply looks great in any circumstances and any dress code.
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Old 21 April 2021, 11:23 PM   #38
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From where I live, the ultimate dress watches from ten years ago were the Grand Complications. Politicians and tycoons were frequently seen with those watches. Nowadays the same people are sporting RMs and hot Nautilus’ whether in their suits or casual wears. Younger generations are also more exposed to this trend, so I don’t think dress watches will make a comeback anytime soon.
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Old 21 April 2021, 11:35 PM   #39
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A little about my watch story ... I'm in my early 40's now, having started with Swatch in high school and then a Oris steel bracelet through university, and the same steel Rolex Datejust for the first 5 years after graduation. Then I bought a few more steel Rolexes (GMT, Explorer 2) and a few Panerai, JLC and IWC, all with steel bracelets. And then a VC Overseas, also with a steel bracelet. And a Royal Oak with a steel bracelet.

Somehow I convinced myself that living in Hong Kong, leather straps are a bad idea as it will be stinky in the humidity and sweat. How wrong I was ... and how much I had missed out by not considering any leather strap watch!

It wasn't until I bought the 5235G that I realised how light and comfortable leather strap watches could be. As I wanted something less stressful to wear on a daily basis (i.e. less expensive), for the past year or so my daily watch is the VC overseas date in blue dial (with a Camille Fournet matte dark blue strap).

Perhaps it's because I'm getting older, leather straps appeal to me more now. How easily it slides under tight shirt cuffs (no casual wear allowed for work and no working from home), how light it feels, and how easy it is to replace the strap with another Camille Fournet when it does get a bit ... um ... stinky.
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Old 21 April 2021, 11:35 PM   #40
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I’m so glad I don’t give a **** what people think of my clothing-watch choices. I have a group of friends with a lot of cash (Ferrari club) and not one of them cares about dress.
Jeans, Tommy Bahama pullover, and a nautilus or a 5205G (interchangeably) works for >95% of occasions in casual Florida. No one cares what watch you have when you roll off your private jet (not me, but several friends). (Better to have friends with jets than own one yourself LOL!)
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Old 22 April 2021, 02:06 AM   #41
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I agree with the OP.
When all go in one direction you make money by boldly going the other
I've bought 5 Langes in the past 6 mos, several VC, Patek etc etc

I don't believe sports watches will go out of favor but i strongly believe there will be a resurgence of the dressy sports watch...if not, oh well I love them!
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Old 22 April 2021, 03:09 AM   #42
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I don't predict that traditional 2-3 hand uncomplicated dress watches will appreciably rise because of the changes in workplace attire. I do think that hybrid-type dressy sport watches, like the new 4947/1A could really take off. For daily wear, I think a lot of us want complications like a date, day, chronograph, etc. I also think more people are looking at bracelet/rubber strap options because it is hard to keep leather nice for very long, especially in warm or wet climates.
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Old 22 April 2021, 03:32 AM   #43
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I'm actually dying to pick up a simple three hand calatrava, but I'm also still giving two little kids (3 and 5) baths regularly, and I don't feel like taking my watch on and off for that haha. Especially a $30k patek.

Now I understand that's not exactly what we're talking about here, but I still think there is and will always be a general overall "do anything, anywhere" attitude that makes sport watches incredibly appealing.

All that said, if you have a desk job and a nanny at home, I could totally see the dress watch taking off. Actually, not to make this about the "I" word (investment shhhhh lol), but someone just asked me, if the ship sailed on all these hard to get watches, which ones can still be had for retail or less. I said, the dress watches might be next.

The same way Rolex executed perfectly, making even gold watches now hard to get and demanding a premium, I'm sure Patek could easily figure out a way to make the calatrava the next hot watch.


If my Calatrava had a screw down crown I’d wear it daily.

Was purchased near the end of WW2 in Paris by a Colonel, I believe it’s like 37mm too with flared lugs. 1 of maybe 50 ever made(one article I read said 30)
Couldn’t imagine a better watch in the $10-15k region. Can’t believe I almost let it go
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Old 22 April 2021, 12:26 PM   #44
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For years the work dress code has been changing. The tie has all but gone for most businesses and with the “smart-casual” (I dislike the term) being the norm. The large internet and IT companies, have led this change from their CEOs down. With that the modern sports watch appeals to the office and the weekends. The dress watch will always have its place but I agree with most of the sentiments on this thread that it’s too early to call the end of the sports style watch. If anything I believe it will run for a long time.
I believe this also. Relaxing business dress codes are driving casual luxury watch sales and it not going to reverse any time soon. Consequently, I imagine watches that dress up and down well like Daytona and Nautilus are going to stay in demand for quite awhile.
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Old 22 April 2021, 03:14 PM   #45
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I've put my 5205g dress watch on a rubber strap and it looks great and sporty. There are some dress models with incredible value compared to the hyped sports model.
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Old 22 April 2021, 05:48 PM   #46
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I wear a 5196j as a daily beater, whether it's with my suit or with jeans and a polo shirt. I have done for about four years (not literally every single day for four years, I have other watches, but it's the watch I wear most) and it gets a lot more comments than any of my sports watches, including my Nautilus.

I wouldn't have done when I was thirty years old, but now I'm older a traditional watch looks fitting, even when I'm in a polo shirt and jeans. In fact especially when I'm casual, it looks great.

I think as this new breed of Instagram watch enthusiasts mature a bit they'll look for something different and with most things people tend to fall back on the traditional stuff.
All the cool kids are wearing brightly coloured Rolex OPs, a throwback watch if ever there was one.

In addition, sooner or later the Insta crowd will turn hipster and want retro, and it doesn't get much more classic and retro than a Calatrava, so I don't know when, but my hunch is that sooner or later the fashion will move to casual clothing with dress watches on traditional straps.

I do the same with my 5127j - I've got brown, black, and burgundy straps for it and I just love how it looks with jeans and tshirt.


More generally I don't think dress watches are making a comeback. They're just not showy enough for most people.
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Old 23 April 2021, 04:01 AM   #47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ97Kq1RZgU

...^^^...Check out John Mayer rocking with a Patek Philippe dress watch on youtube...^^^..







Are we witnessing a silent resurgence of the dress watch?

Possible..... Why not.....

If John Mayer, Ed Sheeran, & Conor McGregor could pull it off by wear a Patek Philippe dress watch with casual lifestyle clothes.... I'm sure other can do it too.....

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Old 23 April 2021, 04:46 AM   #48
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJ97Kq1RZgU

...^^^...Check out John Mayer rocking with a Patek Philippe dress watch on youtube...^^^..







Are we witnessing a silent resurgence of the dress watch?

Possible..... Why not.....

If John Mayer, Ed Sheeran, & Conor McGregor could pull it off by wear a Patek Philippe dress watch with casual lifestyle clothes.... I'm sure other can do it too.....

Great point, arguably Jay Z sitting by the basketball court in a plain Jane Nautilus is what really brought the steel sports watch craze to the masses. Until then, celebs were living it up Vladdy’s diamonds style with iced out 48mm Breitlings, Brad Pitt was smiling off the billboards with a Tag Heuer Link oddly spanning the palm of his hand and if you really wanted to be cool like Sly and the Rock, you would have got a Luminor. But as it became clear within the rap culture that there were flexing opportunities beyond badly set Avengers and everything Rolex, the tides changed significantly.

Incidentally, if the same were happen with Patek’s high complications, as your images would indicate, the circle of those with the means to follow the trend might be a lot narrower than for a steel watch which, back when it started, cost somewhere around 18k. So can see why these folks eventually graduate into this direction, but I don’t really see a bubble building as it has in this cycle. Simpler but iconic dress watches however, like the Journes, could be another story
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Old 23 April 2021, 04:48 AM   #49
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I've put my 5205g dress watch on a rubber strap and it looks great and sporty. There are some dress models with incredible value compared to the hyped sports model.
That manages to look right and wrong (as in just enough to be interesting) at the same time. Very intriguing. But in any event it’s very cool too! That a gorgeous watch that 5202g, love it.
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Old 23 April 2021, 04:56 AM   #50
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I believe this also. Relaxing business dress codes are driving casual luxury watch sales and it not going to reverse any time soon. Consequently, I imagine watches that dress up and down well like Daytona and Nautilus are going to stay in demand for quite awhile.
Yes, but at the same time, Silicon Valley probably has the highest Zeitwerk density of the world, whereas countless Nautili adorn the wrists of men dressed in very traditional thawbs across the Middle East.

Furthermore, we should not count out that everything gets boring at some point. No development is a one way street, especially if there is no inherent evolution of the object. Everything is cyclical, it’s just the frequency that varies.
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Old 23 April 2021, 11:00 AM   #51
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Yes, but at the same time, Silicon Valley probably has the highest Zeitwerk density of the world, whereas countless Nautili adorn the wrists of men dressed in very traditional thawbs across the Middle East.

Furthermore, we should not count out that everything gets boring at some point. No development is a one way street, especially if there is no inherent evolution of the object. Everything is cyclical, it’s just the frequency that varies.
profound!
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Old 23 April 2021, 01:21 PM   #52
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No, for practical reasons. The healthy, sporty lifestyle requires sturdy watches that can be worn in all circumstances. The Calatrava and the Saxonia and leader straps are not made for this. I am not saying there is no resurgence of dress watches; all I’m saying stainless sports models are here to stay and will continue to be in higher demand


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Old 23 April 2021, 02:07 PM   #53
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No, for practical reasons. The healthy, sporty lifestyle requires sturdy watches that can be worn in all circumstances. The Calatrava and the Saxonia and leader straps are not made for this. I am not saying there is no resurgence of dress watches; all I’m saying stainless sports models are here to stay and will continue to be in higher demand


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Sturdy watches? There is a lot more metal to scratch on a Nautilus than on a Calatrava. Would you feel better scratching your Calatrava or Nautilus?

And I've seen a Nautilus broken crystal from a guy putting it down too hard on a boat console, didn't even know he'd done it until he picked it back up again, he was devastated.

I'm pretty keen on both styles, especially the Nautilus, but I'm equally as careful with both because both are easily damaged.
It would be a brave man that chose a Nautilus over a Calatrava because he had some physical work to do and he didn't want to damage his Calatrava.

I think people are right, dress watches have some way to go before they eclipse the sporty watches, but it's because of fashion not function.
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Old 23 April 2021, 02:38 PM   #54
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I agree with the OP.
When all go in one direction you make money by boldly going the other
I've bought 5 Langes in the past 6 mos, several VC, Patek etc etc

I don't believe sports watches will go out of favor but i strongly believe there will be a resurgence of the dressy sports watch...if not, oh well I love them!
This i strongly agree. I am in my early 30s and I found my choice of watches became more included to a mix of dressy and sporty ones: I currently got an Odyeusses WG with leather strap to go with formal, casual smart and sport wears. now im eyeing on the 5524 for pateks which in mind view goes well with either occasions. but deep down still have soft spot for pure dressy watches like the old 5227 and the new 6119
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Old 23 April 2021, 03:51 PM   #55
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Sturdy watches? There is a lot more metal to scratch on a Nautilus than on a Calatrava. Would you feel better scratching your Calatrava or Nautilus?

And I've seen a Nautilus broken crystal from a guy putting it down too hard on a boat console, didn't even know he'd done it until he picked it back up again, he was devastated.

I'm pretty keen on both styles, especially the Nautilus, but I'm equally as careful with both because both are easily damaged.
It would be a brave man that chose a Nautilus over a Calatrava because he had some physical work to do and he didn't want to damage his Calatrava.

I think people are right, dress watches have some way to go before they eclipse the sporty watches, but it's because of fashion not function.

It’s not just about scratches. Would you wear a Calatrava to the beach? You will take it off even when you take a shower or go for a bike ride


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Old 23 April 2021, 05:12 PM   #56
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Aside from water resistance Patek dress watches have the same moments as the sports watches.

So is durability really that much different?
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Old 23 April 2021, 05:30 PM   #57
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Furthermore, we should not count out that everything gets boring at some point. No development is a one way street, especially if there is no inherent evolution of the object. Everything is cyclical, it’s just the frequency that varies.
This. And it is funny how people keep forgetting it all the time.
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Old 23 April 2021, 11:35 PM   #58
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Great thread. Lockdown made me reconsider my watch collecting and wearing as everything I wore was only seen by me. Out went a couple of Rolex and a Panerai and in came a semi-vintage Speedmaster, a Seamaster 300 and finally an old-school Franck Muller, which is as close as I'm gettting to a dress watch in a 34mm cushion case with triple date and chronoraph complications. It makes my collection complete (I also have a couple of Gshocks, an early Seiko Bellamatic and a 60s skin diver). I've defintely seen more traditional 'dress' type watches appearing on social media, but is this just analytics showing you more of what you've already been looking at?
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Old 24 April 2021, 12:24 AM   #59
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That manages to look right and wrong (as in just enough to be interesting) at the same time. Very intriguing. But in any event it’s very cool too! That a gorgeous watch that 5202g, love it.
It looks great in person surprisingly.

The profile of the case for this model is very modern looking, making it look good on a more casual strap. Was pleasantly surprised that it actually looks pretty decent.
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Old 24 April 2021, 01:39 AM   #60
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I'm not sure if the pendulum has swung away from sport watches to dress watches. And although "influencers" do have some sort of impact on the market, I think there is a little bit of a discrepancy between what they are espousing and what the average person is consuming. For example, celebrities are able to wear and "pull off" much more avant garde clothing styles than the average Joe; I suspect that for us regular folk, sport style watches (to accompany our more pedestrian fashion) will be the go to for some time.

That being said, influencers/celebrities/elites will gravitate toward that which is new and exclusive. I can definitely see that amongst that cohort Royal Oaks/Nautiluses/RM have enjoyed their time in the spotlight, and it's possible that the cohort will move on to something new and exclusive in a different way. Wouldn't be surprised to see FPJ and others in that vein popping up on social media more often.
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