What is an end link stamp "IX" (or "XI") for?

[dszpiro]

Hi,

I am looking at a president bracelet for my 1803 DD on eBay. The listing comes with eBay's Authenticity Guarantee. The vendor says that the only stamping on the end links is "IX" (see attached photo).

Will this fit my watch? I am under the impression that I should be looking for end links stamped 53.

Thanks,
Danny

[CTech]

That end link looks very suspect to me and is reminiscent of aftermarket Rolex-style or Presidential-style bracelets from Italy. They are generally good quality but are obviously not original Rolex items, even though many sellers on e-bay advertise them as such.

It would be best for you to post more details of the e-bay auction as there is a lot more information to be found by looking at the clasp markings, shape of links, method of manufacture, surface finish, etc.

You are trying to enter an absolute minefield that is full of questionable items with a wide range of problems such as fakes/counterfeits, aftermarket clasps or other modifications, badly worn, misrepresented, mismatched parts, etc.

A lot of President bracelets have been worn loose on the wrist and they are now so badly worn that they are only worth scrap value, but still they appear on e-bay with high BIN prices.

In my opinion there is no such thing as a good, reasonably priced, used President bracelet and I'm almost certain you won't find one on e-bay, as that is where most of the poorer examples end up.

If you really want a good President bracelet you need to talk to some of the jewelers, dealers and watch repair shops who have contacts within the wholesale jewelry business network and see if they can find something for you.

It is going to take a lot of time, research and heartache before you find anything worthwhile, which is one of the reasons why there are so many older Day-Dates for sale on leather straps and also why a lot of people go for the aftermarket replacements.

With respect to e-bay, bear in mind that the authenticity check only takes place after the item is sold, not prior to listing, so it doesn't verify the listing in any way, it just prevents you having to pay for obviously fake items.

[MorningTundra]

@ctech, that’s an excellent response and sound advice. You’re a credit to this forum

[lupus66]

yeah its fake. could be a x from rolex service center

[Dan S]

That is not a stamp. Someone just scratched something inside the end-link. Moreover, the end-link looks modified in an amateurish way.

[dszpiro]

Originally Posted by CTech

It would be best for you to post more details of the e-bay auction as there is a lot more information to be found by looking at the clasp markings, shape of links, method of manufacture, surface finish, etc.

CTech, thanks very much indeed for this detailed response and advice! Very much appreciated!

As you suggested, I have attached several more photos of the bracelet. Any further observations would also be very much appreciated.

Thanks again,
Danny

[MorningTundra]

No Swiss Assay hallmarks? Helvetia or Bernard?

[oysterfisher]

bracelet is a typical "GENEVE" - Style fake one ... Its mostly between 14 and 18ct and not massive. The quality of this straps isn´t good as well. The stamp inside the clasp element is not from Rolex!

Normally the older 1803 bracelets should have a "classic" Rolex box clasp and the newer ones do have the hidden one...
The stamp / engraving of the classic one should be like a standard older clasp marked and the hidden president clasp like the one attached.


Not every bracelet has the endlinks marked with numbers... Normally a 20mm President bracelet -if genuine Rolex- should match your watch!
Furthermore I know a 55 Endlink matching a 1803...

Sadly it´s not quite easy to find a "good shape" President nowadays at a affordable price. Try to look a bit more around the bay and if you think its a legit one, just post new pictures here, to get a right one...

Good luck ...

[dszpiro]

Originally Posted by oysterfisher

Not every bracelet has the endlinks marked with numbers... Normally a 20mm President bracelet -if genuine Rolex- should match your watch! Furthermore I know a 55 Endlink matching a 1803...

Sadly it´s not quite easy to find a "good shape" President nowadays at a affordable price. Try to look a bit more around the bay and if you think its a legit one, just post new pictures here, to get a right one...

Good luck ...

Thanks very much for your detailed response!

Quick follow-up: am I reading your note correctly that it is 55 endlnks for an 1803? I have read elsewhere that the 55 endlinks are for the 18038 and that an older 1803 needs 53 endlinks. Any thoughts?

Thanks again,
Danny

[oysterfisher]

Have just used a bit of google and found out that both are legit... 53 mostly on older classic clasps and 55 on hidden ones.

Definitely the 55 is working and matching!

[dszpiro]

Originally Posted by oysterfisher

Have just used a bit of google and found out that both are legit... 53 mostly on older classic clasps and 55 on hidden ones.

Definitely the 55 is working and matching!

Thanks very much oysterfish!

[antrolexsub]

The bracelet is genuine. It’s a South American variant.

[dszpiro]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

The bracelet is genuine. It’s a South American variant.

Ahh...very interesting. Any thought on those end links?

[dszpiro]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

The bracelet is genuine. It’s a South American variant.

I found more about these South American Rolex certified bracelets in an older thread here called "Value of a 1970s president bracelet made under license in south america?"

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=287257

It looks like the hallmarks on the bracelet with the "XI" stamped end links does match the authorized South American manufacturer.

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by dszpiro

Ahh...very interesting. Any thought on those end links?

They’re original to the bracelet. I’ve no idea what the IX stamp stands for though. It appears factory stamped. Crowncollection may know.

[dszpiro]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

They’re original to the bracelet. I’ve no idea what the IX stamp stands for though. It appears factory stamped. Crowncollection may know.

Thanks. I sent Crowncollection a note.

[oysterfisher]

Originally Posted by antrolexsub

The bracelet is genuine. It’s a South American variant.

If so, I have to say sorry! I do know the south american style DD bracelets just with a fat Logo crown and this type of clasp elements... similar than the oval 6251´s with mexican or south american elements and different font of the outer clasp.

See picture:


But with google I could find some more like the style of the OP one...

Thanks @antrolexsub for learning something more!

Here in europa, many "geneve" style fakes do have similar styled bracelets with very thin produced endlinks... similar the one in pictures. Thats why I though it´s the same stuff.

One more time: Sorry for my fault!

[antrolexsub]

Originally Posted by oysterfisher

If so, I have to say sorry! I do know the south american style DD bracelets just with a fat Logo crown and this type of clasp elements... similar than the oval 6251´s with mexican or south american elements and different font of the outer clasp.

See picture:


But with google I could find some more like the style of the OP one...

Thanks @antrolexsub for learning something more!

Here in europa, many "geneve" style fakes do have similar styled bracelets with very thin produced endlinks... similar the one in pictures. Thats why I though it´s the same stuff.

One more time: Sorry for my fault!

It’s an easy mistake to make, they’re seldom seen and look somewhat odd in comparison to the Swiss made versions.

[oysterfisher]

Definitely!
As same as the mexican jubilees....
But thanks anyway.