Patek vs Audemars

[lapince]

Hi all, I have 2 Pateks, Nautiluses, and considered, still do sometimes, getting a Jumbo.

When I saw 2 AP in real, the 15400 and the SS skeleton watch, both felt very strange to me, very very light, even lighter than my 5712, which is quite a light watch.

It seems I had a little negative opinion about AP, to be honest the watches didn't seem up to the quality that I expected or that I found in PP.

The ceramic diver had a very good feel of very good quality, which I lacked to see in the 2 RO's, maybe I am wrong, I'm sure that I am, and it is great quality but I didn't feel it as with the diver or with a Patek.

Can you tell me if for you quality in AP is clearly below PP, or equal, or maybe superior to some…

I have yet to see the Jumbo in real but if it's built the same way as the 2 I saw, I suppose I will also have a problem with the impression of quality from it…

Do some of you prefer AP to PP? I'm not talking about sport watches as PP doesn't make any real sport watch IMO, whereas AP does and apparently pretty well..

Thanks for your answer guys

[redsubby]

I have handled the 15400 and the 5711 and I can tell you the 15400 is absolutely in par, if not better built, than the 5711. Not sure why you felt the RO quality wasn't there.

[AMCK87]

I think they both offer exceptionally well-made and high quality pieces, but like you said they are different. To me, when i compare the band and case of my ROC to the 5980, to me the ROC is just better looking and has more detailed finishing on the outside. The movement is obviously a different story but strictly from the exterior finishing and for sports models, I prefer AP. But really those are the only types of watches I'd buy from AP, Royal Oak or ROO. For anything remotely dressy or complicated, I find the quality and overall looks of PP to be much better.

[WJGESQ]

Originally Posted by lapince

Hi all, I have 2 Pateks, Nautiluses, and considered, still do sometimes, getting a Jumbo.

When I saw 2 AP in real, the 15400 and the SS skeleton watch, both felt very strange to me, very very light, even lighter than my 5712, which is quite a light watch.

It seems I had a little negative opinion about AP, to be honest the watches didn't seem up to the quality that I expected or that I found in PP.

The ceramic diver had a very good feel of very good quality, which I lacked to see in the 2 RO's, maybe I am wrong, I'm sure that I am, and it is great quality but I didn't feel it as with the diver or with a Patek.

Can you tell me if for you quality in AP is clearly below PP, or equal, or maybe superior to some…

I have yet to see the Jumbo in real but if it's built the same way as the 2 I saw, I suppose I will also have a problem with the impression of quality from it…

Do some of you prefer AP to PP? I'm not talking about sport watches as PP doesn't make any real sport watch IMO, whereas AP does and apparently pretty well..

Thanks for your answer guys

The APs strike me as average quality/feel at best. I think your comments are well stated.

[Islatate]

Here are my observations, based strictly on my personal experience of having owned (or currently own) the pieces listed below:

* AP's RG RO & ROC vs PP's RG Nautilus: quality and workmanship on AP's RG pieces are on par with PP's RG Nautilus models. I have owned the RG ROC 26320, RG 15300, RG 15450 and PP 5712gr. The only "negative" I can point to is that the fit of the plots and gator straps on the APs are not as "flush" as the gator on the 5712gr.

* PP 5711 vs AP 15202: the 5711 feels more solid than the 15202 Jumbo Navy due to the bracelet on the 5711 being slightly thicker, thus feeling sturdier. Dare I say, the Jumbo Navy bracelet feels borderline "flimsy"

* SS ROO on Bracelet vs 5980-1A - the fit and finish of AP's ROOs are right up there with the SS 5980. I would even say that AP's buckle is way better than the one found on the Nautilus bracelet.

* FC Diver vs 5164 Travel Time: both are outstanding pieces. Super comfortable on the wrist, and unique in their own right. No discernible difference in quality and finish.

Hope that helps.

[agsstructures]

Jumbo is amazing. Sold every other watch I had and I wear it everyday.

[yjfang]

I have the AP 15400 and the Patek Nautilus 5980 and my observation is that both are of very high build quality. The Patek bracelet is a little bit too thin towards the clasp side (thickness tapers from the watch head to the clasp) and I also do not care for the friction clasp. The Patek bracelet design makes the watch feel a little bit top heavy and the buckle less secure. AP bracelet on the other hand is very solid and has same thickness all the way around and the butterfly clasp clicks in and feels more secure. When worn, the AP RO feels more balanced but both bracelets are pretty comfortable.

The Patek dial looks more refined and elegant and the AP dial looks more plain and less dramatic but I think the key design of the RO is the sharp octagonal bezel. I think the aesthetics is a matter of taste and not so much a quality differential.

I also like to add that the Patek 5711 / 5712 is too thin overall for my taste. I had the 5712 and it just felt small. It seriously felt like wearing just a bracelet without a watch head so I flipped it for the 5980 which is about the same size as the 41MM RO but a bit thicker and wears more sporty than the 5711/12.

[lapince]

Thanks for your answers guys and keep 'em coming, the history of AP is interesting to me, but can't really get over the "sensation" of medium quality that I felt, but in no way top notch like I was expecting or so it seems, to be honest the 15400 bracelet felt to me of a much lesser quality than my 5712 bracelet...

[lapince]

Originally Posted by yjfang

The Patek dial looks more refined and elegant and the AP dial looks more plain and less dramatic but I think the key design of the RO is the sharp octagonal bezel. I think the aesthetics is a matter of taste and not so much a quality differential.

Well it's not the problem of taste, I think the RO's look really cool, but when I has them in hand I was really disappointed because I really had this impression of not more than medium quality, as to the weight of the watch, feel of it and so on...

[CWIN]

I've purchased both a 15400 and 5711 new. IMHO, the quality, fit and finish of AP is on par with Patek for the most part. Not sure how heavy a 5712 is but I can tell you that my current 15300 feels heavier to me than my 5711 and I disagree that Patek doesn't make a real sports watch, as I consider the aquanaut and nautilus lines to be exactly that. Anywho, I'm obviously biased because I do quite love AP but YMMV. Sounds like you're not completely a fan of the brand. I'd give it some more time or avoid it all together. You already have a great pair of "sporty," Pateks!

[thomaspp]

Hi Arnaud. Glad to hear you are considering an AP. I own a 15400 and an aquanaut and have a 5711 on the way. I love my 15400 and think highly of the ROs as I find them to be excellent quality/value. The butterfly clasp is one of the best in the entire industry in my opinion. Best.

[GB-man]

I have never had that feeling when trying on an AP. They always ooze quality and the finishing on the case and dial and bracelet is always on par or better than PP IMHO.

Where PP surpasses AP, withing my realm, is the movements. I find my 324 to be better finished and more accurate than my 3120, although I prefer the AP rotor!

Also I can't ignore the fact that I love PP's history and direction as a brand. AP often leaves me but that won't stop me from buying what I like!

For reference I have a 15400 and 5167 but have sampled a variety from each brand on numerous occasions

[DaveBecker]

If you're worried it's too light buy one in platinum or rose gold. Problem solved.

[lapince]

Originally Posted by CWIN

I've purchased both a 15400 and 5711 new. IMHO, the quality, fit and finish of AP is on par with Patek for the most part. Not sure how heavy a 5712 is but I can tell you that my current 15300 feels heavier to me than my 5711 and I disagree that Patek doesn't make a real sports watch, as I consider the aquanaut and nautilus lines to be exactly that. Anywho, I'm obviously biased because I do quite love AP but YMMV. Sounds like you're not completely a fan of the brand. I'd give it some more time or avoid it all together. You already have a great pair of "sporty," Pateks!

Chris 10 months ago you told me that both were great but that PP had a better finishing, you think now that they are equal?

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Hi Arnaud. Glad to hear you are considering an AP. I own a 15400 and an aquanaut and have a 5711 on the way. I love my 15400 and think highly of the ROs as I find them to be excellent quality/value. The butterfly clasp is one of the best in the entire industry in my opinion. Best.

Thomas, slow down, I have AP in my sight for an eventual watch in the future but I need to understand the type of quality, because once again the feel I had was of a very weak one...

Originally Posted by GB-man

I have never had that feeling when trying on an AP. They always ooze quality and the finishing on the case and dial and bracelet is always on par or better than PP IMHO.

Where PP surpasses AP, withing my realm, is the movements. I find my 324 to be better finished and more accurate than my 3120, although I prefer the AP rotor!

Also I can't ignore the fact that I love PP's history and direction as a brand. AP often leaves me but that won't stop me from buying what I like!

For reference I have a 15400 and 5167 but have sampled a variety from each brand on numerous occasions

Tom I can just tell you what I felt, and for me it was really a lesser quality than PP, maybe it's not but I felt it like that...

Originally Posted by DaveBecker

If you're worried it's too light buy one in platinum or rose gold. Problem solved.

Dave, yeah that's a solution, the RG Jumbo sure looks sweet in pics...

[CWIN]

Originally Posted by lapince

Chris 10 months ago you told me that both were great but that PP had a better finishing, you think now that they are equal?

Perhaps not equal but the difference is negligible IMO. I feel that once you reach a certain level of craftsmanship, there's only nitpicking beyond that. Both manufactures put out a high quality product, which one is more high quality is an inconsequential argument for me

[dhermidar]

Well, you said the 15400 feels lighter than the 5712.. I think you need to try AP again, maybe you will have a different feeling.

I dont even like the 15400 (proportions), and sold an AP ROO to fund a 5711, I dont trust the 3120 (too much people I know and also myself with problems with that mechanism), prefer Patek overall as a brand, and the only AP that I will ever buy is the 15202st.

But I also think that the finish on AP watches is superb

[lapince]

Reading all of you, except one person who had the same impressions as me, I am thinking did I see the same watches as they are talking about?

Need to go back and see a few Ap's again, not to buy, just got a PP 5726 yesterday, but to see, maybe I will have a different opinion this time...

[Muzz]

I was the other way around, every time I held a Patek I purchased an AP instead. Wasn't quality for me it was the feel. In 10 years, I imagine I will dive into Patek as I mature but not right now.

Quality wise, felt comparable price points they were the same.

Just an opinion take it for what it is worth.

[benlee]

For PP, one pays a significant premium for the brand prestige and the "aura" of owning a Patek. In turns, it tends to make the owner feels good and this might be worth paying for. Quality wise, comparing equivalent models, from what I can observe, PP has a slight edge in finishing, a bit more refined but not by much. At the very top end, I believe PP watches are mostly un-comparable in quality and finishing.

If you don't like the AP ROs and you have tried and handled them, it just means the RO isn't for you. It does not mean the quality is subpar. In the end, watches are down to personal choice and taste and hard to apply subjective criteria. Just buy what you like.

[Cru Jones]

After picking up two Pateks, not sure why you think weight has anything to do with quality, Arnaud. Personal preference, sure, but "quality"?

From what I've seen and impressions I've read, if you think the 15400 isn't "solid" enough, you'll think the Jumbo is even more "flimsy".

[lapince]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

After picking up two Pateks, not sure why you think weight has anything to do with quality, Arnaud. Personal preference, sure, but "quality"?

From what I've seen and impressions I've read, if you think the 15400 isn't "solid" enough, you'll think the Jumbo is even more "flimsy".

It's not the problem of weight alone but a mix weight, feel, impression,, touch and I really had a feeling of not the same quality and feel as PP, but maybe it's just me...

[lapince]

Originally Posted by benlee

For PP, one pays a significant premium for the brand prestige and the "aura" of owning a Patek. In turns, it tends to make the owner feels good and this might be worth paying for. Quality wise, comparing equivalent models, from what I can observe, PP has a slight edge in finishing, a bit more refined but not by much. At the very top end, I believe PP watches are mostly un-comparable in quality and finishing.

If you don't like the AP ROs and you have tried and handled them, it just means the RO isn't for you. It does not mean the quality is subpar. In the end, watches are down to personal choice and taste and hard to apply subjective criteria. Just buy what you like.

I agree, I don't say the quality is not great, I don't believe that it's bad quality, just that I had this impression and I'm trying to understand why, I'm absolutely not saying it's not good quality, just that I don't feel the quality like I do in PP or even Rolex, I know it's very hard to explain what I felt but it wasn't the feel and impression of a top notch brand, just a good one, so really would like to understand this...

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by lapince

It's not the problem of weight alone but a mix weight, feel, impression,, touch and I really had a feeling of not the same quality and feel as PP, but maybe it's just me...

Aaah, ok, I misunderstood, sorry. As some say, there's Patek and there's everything else, so, it seems like you have a good thing going for you.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by lapince

I agree, I don't say the quality is not great, I don't believe that it's bad quality, just that I had this impression and I'm trying to understand why, I'm absolutely not saying it's not good quality, just that I don't feel the quality like I do in PP or even Rolex, I know it's very hard to explain what I felt but it wasn't the feel and impression of a top notch brand, just a good one, so really would like to understand this...

Well, you are applying a subjective criteria ( ie your feelings ) to make an objective assessment like in this thread and moreover request others to agreed with you, that premise and context in itself is already heavily flawed.

For example, I do not really like RM watches, I feel that most of them are too "plasticky" for my taste. Most likely I will never want to own one. But this is just just my own personal subjective opinion and in no way imply RM watches are not of good quality or not a top-notch brand regardless of my personal feeling and assessment. And I will certainly not go around telling others why I feel so and wanting others to explain to me why I feel that way.

Why some people like Red color? Some people blue, some people black. Why some people prefer oranges to apples? Does it means Red is better? Or oranges taste better than apples? It's just a subjective opinion and matter of personal taste. So are the watches we like or don't like.

[sturgeon123456]

I think that at this level we are splitting hairs.....the case finishing and brushing as well as intersecting angles on the AP look better to me and almost dare I say that they put more time into it?

The Patek movement I dont know enough about but I am sure it is probably of better finish and possibly more accurate? (21000hz vs 28000?)

I will say from handling both they are so close in overall quality and fit and finish that it should come down to what sings to you

[tomcorkery]

There is a large price difference between pp and a 15400. Get it????

[lapince]

Originally Posted by benlee

Well, you are applying a subjective criteria ( ie your feelings ) to make an objective assessment like in this thread and moreover request others to agreed with you, that premise and context in itself is already heavily flawed.

For example, I do not really like RM watches, I feel that most of them are too "plasticky" for my taste. Most likely I will never want to own one. But this is just just my own personal subjective opinion and in no way imply RM watches are not of good quality or not a top-notch brand regardless of my personal feeling and assessment. And I will certainly not go around telling others why I feel so and wanting others to explain to me why I feel that way.

Why some people like Red color? Some people blue, some people black. Why some people prefer oranges to apples? Does it means Red is better? Or oranges taste better than apples? It's just a subjective opinion and matter of personal taste. So are the watches we like or don't like.

I'm not letting a subjective feeling to make an objective criteria, I'm just saying that I had a feeling of lesser quality than Patek, didn't say I thought it was the case, just that it was the feeling that I had and wanted to know what other people thought about this, I never asked anyone to comfort me in this impression that I've had… And this impression was just for the RO models, the ceramic diver I felt a very good level of quality...

[benlee]

Originally Posted by lapince

I'm not letting a subjective feeling to make an objective criteria, I'm just saying that I had a feeling of lesser quality than Patek, didn't say I thought it was the case, just that it was the feeling that I had and wanted to know what other people thought about this, I never asked anyone to comfort me in this impression that I've had...

Precisely. It's your own subjective feeling. And we are not you. So how can we attempt to duplicate or understand how you "feel"? You started a thread with a rather bold statement that AP RO watches are clearly inferior compared to PP and can only cite your own personal feelings as justification. So we can only tell you we agreed or disagree with your assessment based on what we think. And that's the point, everyone's taste and feeling is different. No right and wrong and that makes this whole thread rather pointless to put it bluntly.

Anyway, guess I made my point. It's perfectly OK if RO doesn't sing to you. Just enjoy your Nautilus. They are awesome watches.

[Time Collector]

Originally Posted by lapince

Reading all of you, except one person who had the same impressions as me, I am thinking did I see the same watches as they are talking about?

I feel that this is a personal preference thread with no wrong or right answer, because all of the true technical information on both brands are on the internet or booklets. There are going to be some members who feel exactly like you do and some that don't, based on were they are at with there collections. I once thought the world of Tags and Omegas until my taste changed, but that doesn't mean that there is anything wrong with them.

As far as your impression of the watches before you seen them and then the let down that followed, I'm quite sure we have all felt that way about a brand or two on our journey.

So since AP didn't intentionally set out to go up against PP in a head to head market grab, with certain watches. I think that by offering different products, they offer something for everyone.

"To me" the question would be different if AP had said that the watches you mentioned were put out to compete with one of PP watches, then the strong comparisions of implied differences in quality would be warranted. Hopefully, non of us makes major watch purchases based on what is popular or what others like. Surely not, because in the end ( we all buy what we like and are drawn to.)

[lapince]

Anyways thanks to all for your opinions, like a few said some watches just don't sing to us and that's what the RO line did to me, really liked the feel and finish of the ceramic diver though, but it's clearly not a watch that I can put, too big on my wrist, in fact not so bad as if I buy a sport watch it will be a basic sub no date, much cheaper...