PANERAI brand direction thoughts

[Sublovin]

With the new SIHH releases...just sharing my thoughts on Panerai as a brand. I have been a fan and owner since the late 90’s! I am not bashing the business model, because they are in business to make money, not cater to a small group of enthusiasts.

That said, this brand has become Bell & Ross (maybe worse). I can’t imagine any of the new releases selling anywhere near retail price. They will likely be steeply discounted from the day they are released. Some of the new designs and variations resemble a brand that is really trying hard to create some sort of relevance. Dozens of divers with 100-300m water resistance, minor variations in colors and materials. Re-releases of re-releases that are “limited”. Some of these new releases look just like the fakes that were floating around a dozen years ago that everyone would laugh at! For those of you who have been around the brand for a while, you know exactly what I mean.

The good news is that there are many great deals to be found on some of the classics, thanks to the brand completely jumping the shark! I will hold on to my classics for now and enjoy them. Watches like 372, 000, 249, 232...even 201/a are a real bargain right now.

Wearing a Panerai used to mean something. It meant that you enjoyed a “less is more” style at times. If you saw someone else wearing one, it meant they “got it” just like you did. It meant you would scour the books and internet digging for more history and understanding of the minute differences in models. It was like being in a club.

This all appears to have gone away....now it’s a business that has to please the bottom line (not sure how that’s working out). $20,000 colorful watches made of carbon with very unsophisticated mechanics appear to be the new brand. Like a cross between a Luminox and Bell & Ross from 2005!

I will just keep wearing my old Panerai’s and from time to time take out a catalog or book from the earlier years and reminisce. They really had something special going for a while there, and it was fun!

[rambo99]

yes, using the cheap non inhouse movement on the new 42mm steel submersibles is just not acceptable. to me its definitely a step back considering even the 2017 pam 682 has an inhouse movement.

[psychokandy]

I agree with what OP said. I will hold on to my 000 for sure.


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[Cru Jones]

D@mned if you do (“Panerai has abandoned its DNA!”), d@mned if you don’t (“Panerai is a one trick pony mixing and matching stale parts”).

Personally, I prefer to see them trying new things, but they just went way way way overboard this year, throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks. For the first time since I started following Panerai in 2009, I made no effort to learn the new model numbers.

[hitman23]

Of course the models I do like are super limited and crazy expensive. Makes no sense really. The 983 would look good on my wrist.

[synequano]

This year Panerai is really losing their marbles

Even historically the "fat" market for Panerai is anything below 10k (usd or eur,I'll give some leeway here) but almost all their latest stuff are priced above that,I'm afraid this is the beginning of the end for the brand (or maybe Hublot-ization of Panerai?)

I'm echoing the others that I'm keeping my older pams and will probably comb the market for some more interesting goods

Btw,if there's someone buying the experience and don't wanna do it,tell me,I'll do it while wearing my Seiko diver

[fullcourt]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

D@mned if you do (“Panerai has abandoned its DNA!”), d@mned if you don’t (“Panerai is a one trick pony mixing and matching stale parts”).

Personally, I prefer to see them trying new things, but they just went way way way overboard this year, throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks. For the first time since I started following Panerai in 2009, I made no effort to learn the new model numbers.

cru i agree, although i'm still a fan of the brand there's nothing that blew me away this year. i'll keep my current collection and continue to love it, although i want to see the new cali dial itf.

[Dan2010]

Its a sad day for sure. I'm not quite sure what to make of things honestly. I may just buy a DSSD and say screw it and be done with watches...……….

[GoingPlaces]

It seems like many brands today are victims of their own success. Looking for ways to re-invent the wheel by coming out with newer and not-so improved versions of existing watches. Watering down the brand with basically repeats in different guises.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

D@mned if you do (“Panerai has abandoned its DNA!”), d@mned if you don’t (“Panerai is a one trick pony mixing and matching stale parts”).

Personally, I prefer to see them trying new things, but they just went way way way overboard this year, throwing everything at the wall and hoping something sticks. For the first time since I started following Panerai in 2009, I made no effort to learn the new model numbers.

I hear ya. It isn’t the trying new things that bothers me, it’s the flooding the market with 45 new watches that have no real demand. If you want to release one carbon submersible with no interesting depth rating, that’s fine, but we don’t need 20 of them.
Look at the catalog 10 years ago. They still had platinum watches, gold watches, and plenty of watches that didn’t have the DNA, but it was acceptable because they didn’t flood the market with too many of them.

[Sublovin]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

Its a sad day for sure. I'm not quite sure what to make of things honestly. I may just buy a DSSD and say screw it and be done with watches...……….

That certainly would not be a bad decision. It’s an amazing Watch

[Sublovin]

I think where the brand missed the mark and went sideways is by mistaking their following and success as something that could be scaled to appeal to the masses. Brands like Ferrari have stayed relevant for decades by recognizing they have a niche. They don’t just start churning out a million cars per year.
Increasing volume is not always the answer...

[ocwatching]

this years releases were shot to the system..ala Roger Dubuis...
these boutique pieces are $20K will be sitting around a bit...but then again..I am an old fart...
Says AP..the 19-30 year olds will snap these up

[nick c]

I agree with OP, I will enjoy my fantastic 5. For now LOL IMG_5022.jpg


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[Sublovin]

^^fantastic indeed! Ahhh...the good ole days!

[nick c]

Originally Posted by Sublovin

^^fantastic indeed! Ahhh...the good ole days!

[subzilla]

Totally agree with the OP, if Panerai had released a couple of these “new” models rather than flooding the market (excluding the faux limited editions), they may have captured their audience. The BMG has my attention bug they’ve done nothing special enough to warrant me parting with my money.
For all you ‘old farts’ out their like me, I’d have like to have seen a 47mm 1950’s case BMG with a nice movement, something simple and classy, hey I would have even accepted a me too blue dial.
Those carbon models look a little too Luminox for my money. I like watches all watches (within reason), however if spending big bucks you want to feel like you’ve invested in something special, these current models aren’t that special.
As for the limited editions with the experiences included, you can do a whole lot of crazy stuff for 20k.
I have a reasonable collection of Panerai watches all with great memories attached for one reason or another. The 422 is one of my go to watches and it gets plenty of comments when I wear it, I have a number of 47mm subs that I still get enjoyment from wearing. I remember when people were selling their first born to obtain the latest must have Panerai, those days are long gone for the time being at least, (although it has dipped for a number of years). I was a little excited by the carbotech models but again not special enough.
I think Nad should be made CEO of Panerai, although I’ve not seen him posting for a while, hope he’s still a fan.

To sum up for me another frustrating year for Panerai enthusiasts.
But just as my luck goes, the 2019 models will be the hottest time pieces of the year.

[synequano]

[bruinmd]

Originally Posted by sublovin

with the new sihh releases...just sharing my thoughts on panerai as a brand. I have been a fan and owner since the late 90’s! I am not bashing the business model, because they are in business to make money, not cater to a small group of enthusiasts.

That said, this brand has become bell & ross (maybe worse). I can’t imagine any of the new releases selling anywhere near retail price. They will likely be steeply discounted from the day they are released. Some of the new designs and variations resemble a brand that is really trying hard to create some sort of relevance. Dozens of divers with 100-300m water resistance, minor variations in colors and materials. Re-releases of re-releases that are “limited”. Some of these new releases look just like the fakes that were floating around a dozen years ago that everyone would laugh at! For those of you who have been around the brand for a while, you know exactly what i mean.

The good news is that there are many great deals to be found on some of the classics, thanks to the brand completely jumping the shark! I will hold on to my classics for now and enjoy them. Watches like 372, 000, 249, 232...even 201/a are a real bargain right now.

Wearing a panerai used to mean something. It meant that you enjoyed a “less is more” style at times. If you saw someone else wearing one, it meant they “got it” just like you did. It meant you would scour the books and internet digging for more history and understanding of the minute differences in models. It was like being in a club.

This all appears to have gone away....now it’s a business that has to please the bottom line (not sure how that’s working out). $20,000 colorful watches made of carbon with very unsophisticated mechanics appear to be the new brand. Like a cross between a luminox and bell & ross from 2005!

I will just keep wearing my old panerai’s and from time to time take out a catalog or book from the earlier years and reminisce. They really had something special going for a while there, and it was fun!

^^^^this^^^^

The only model I really like is the BMG big tech (as I'm fascinated by the materials used) with the carbo tech bezel. I would maybe/possibly consider one, but they offer it only in 47mm, instead of a dual 42mm/47mm option, like they did with their two carbotech models.
That watch, at a discount, might be an interesting buy.

[Travelller]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

D@mned if you do (“Panerai has abandoned its DNA!”), d@mned if you don’t (“Panerai is a one trick pony mixing and matching stale parts”)...

Plus One.

[Foxiness]

Agree

[carlhaluss]

Originally Posted by Dan2010

Its a sad day for sure. I'm not quite sure what to make of things honestly. I may just buy a DSSD and say screw it and be done with watches...……….

I looked at all the new 2019 offerings. Very baffled at the insane number of Submersible models. Normally, I don't discuss prices, because I feel it's up to each individual what a watch is worth to them. But in this case, I have to make an exception.

Very happy I have 4 of the traditional styles, including one California dial. And I have a titanium 562 which is rated at 300m water resistance so, in my book, I have just as good as a Submersible.

The pricing has gone beyond ridiculous. I was thinking today, as well as you, if I want an excellent diver - the best, in fact - for less money and best quality, I will get a Rolex Sea Dweller. And my AD will put me on a waitlist, and I will be much happier with the watch than I would ever be with a Submersible. And I will have paid less. I have felt for a long time that Rolex is one of the best value of any quality timepiece (note: not cheapest, but best VALUE), and I am more than happy to pay full MSRP. Matter of fact, with some of the prices I have seen for these Panerai, a Rolex seems like a bargain.

Cheers,
Carl

[Uppersouth]

I understand there’s a press embargo that prevents certain pieces from being discussed until the open day at SIHH. Perhaps we’ll see some comforting models in the next 24 hours. I saw the bootleg pics on another thread. I’m holding out for those before passing judgment.

[nigelUK]

Agree with the OP. It's a shame but totally understandable. It's a business . .

From a business point of view ..I have always thought they should have concentrated on a smaller watch with all the 'DNA' but without the size. Like it or not 'fashion' is a big dictator of demand on luxury goods and 47mm has been loosing it's popularity in a mass market. Please don't say they did this with the Due

The 372 is the best watch I've ever owned and Panerai got me proper into watches. If someone asked what my favorite watch brand ... I'd still say Panerai and I don't care for any of the new references and don't even own one ..

[rambo99]

I was planning to buy the 42mm submersible 682, but decided to hold it after SIHH. hoping that some interesting pieces will be announced. then I saw the blue ceramic 959 and the black ceramic 683, at first i think they are the better one and i should get one of them instead of the 682. but after i learnt that they have non inhouse movement and much higher price tag, I think I should buy the 682 as planed. a local grey dealer offer 20% discount on a new 682. should I go for it?

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by rambo99

I was planning to buy the 42mm submersible 682, but decided to hold it after SIHH. hoping that some interesting pieces will be announced. then I saw the blue ceramic 959 and the black ceramic 683, at first i think they are the better one and i should get one of them instead of the 682. but after i learnt that they have non inhouse movement and much higher price tag, I think I should buy the 682 as planed. a local grey dealer offer 20% discount on a new 682. should I go for it?

Yes, for sure, great watch. I’d just double-check that it still has a 9010 movement (I wouldn’t put it past Panerai to make the un-announced switch... to be clear, I have no idea if Panerai will change the 682, but if I wanted one, I’d get one now just in case).

[Foxiness]

Originally Posted by carlhaluss

I looked at all the new 2019 offerings. Very baffled at the insane number of Submersible models. Normally, I don't discuss prices, because I feel it's up to each individual what a watch is worth to them. But in this case, I have to make an exception.

Very happy I have 4 of the traditional styles, including one California dial. And I have a titanium 562 which is rated at 300m water resistance so, in my book, I have just as good as a Submersible.

The pricing has gone beyond ridiculous. I was thinking today, as well as you, if I want an excellent diver - the best, in fact - for less money and best quality, I will get a Rolex Sea Dweller. And my AD will put me on a waitlist, and I will be much happier with the watch than I would ever be with a Submersible. And I will have paid less. I have felt for a long time that Rolex is one of the best value of any quality timepiece (note: not cheapest, but best VALUE), and I am more than happy to pay full MSRP. Matter of fact, with some of the prices I have seen for these Panerai, a Rolex seems like a bargain.

Cheers,
Carl

Feel the same way that's why I moved on to Rolex.

[rambo99]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

Yes, for sure, great watch. I’d just double-check that it still has a 9010 movement (I wouldn’t put it past Panerai to make the un-announced switch... to be clear, I have no idea if Panerai will change the 682, but if I wanted one, I’d get one now just in case).

thanks for your advice.

[Panerol Forte]

Originally Posted by rambo99

thanks for your advice.

I second Cru Jones advice, go for it, it's a great watch, you will really enjoy it..