Grey market prices rising in the uk

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by peterpl

Let the suckers pay 11k pounds for a Hulk. You must be stupid as batshit to pay that.

oh but they do. I wouldn't but i personally know people who have bought watches at the top of the market. They knew they were doing it too.

[Banks]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

they offered me $20k USD less for a 5712 than they are selling one for and the one they have is 4 years older and not under warranty and yes the offer was quite a bit under retail. So no one in their right mind should actually sell for their offers. Just saying spreads are really, really, really bad so don't look at a selling price and assume you can get that much or anywhere close to that. FWIW that one is more in demand and astronomically harder to get than a hulk.

That’s a ridiculous spread. Hate watchfinder.

[bonsai-man]

I suspect the low offers may be seasonal, Dec can be a difficult month for many

[peterpl]

Originally Posted by Banks

Unfortunately people are consistently paying it and suckers are making the market.

The amount of new grey dealers that have popped up in the last year or so is unbelievable. Many operate just over social media and deal exclusively in Rolex, AP and Patek. They have spotted an opportunity, willingness to buy which has been perpetuated by social media and bought up the bulk of AD and circulating supply.

I know. A normal customer, heck even a repeat customer cant buy anything at all. Even some precious metal pieces are harder to get and rising in price.

ADs selling direct to Grays, markup 30-40% and onsell to the customer. Rolex need to fix their AD and supply chain. Its just like ticket scalping at concerts.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by bonsai-man

I suspect the low offers may be seasonal, Dec can be a difficult month for many

TBH that was my thought. Or their buying budget has run out for the year or a combination of both.

Just a warning to sit tight to anyone thinking of selling and don't have to sell. wait

Ive got a long history with them and this is particularly low

[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by Banks

That’s a ridiculous spread. Hate watchfinder.

They are fine and they have their place. You can actually get a good deal out of them. Most of their locations have tourists, so they make the best out of the weak pound and the lack of inventory in AD’s. As well as that they have lots of moneyed locals who will pay for what they want.


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[Banks]

Originally Posted by Stevec14

They are fine and they have their place. You can actually get a good deal out of them. Most of their locations have tourists, so they make the best out of the weak pound and the lack of inventory in AD’s. As well as that they have lots of moneyed locals who will pay for what they want.


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Not faulting them in terms of business model, but in my experience their prices are consistently the highest by quite a margin.

[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by peterpl

I know. A normal customer, heck even a repeat customer cant buy anything at all. Even some precious metal pieces are harder to get and rising in price.



ADs selling direct to Grays, markup 30-40% and onsell to the customer. Rolex need to fix their AD and supply chain. Its just like ticket scalping at concerts.

They are selling all of their watches. The clamour for them is if anything doing them a favour. WIs know what is going on and have a choice re wait lists or doing something with a grey. Those with lots of money go grey. Those less knowledgeable go to an AD, can’t find the one they want and buy something else in the Rolex line.

Believe me, I suspect they are fine.....


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[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by Banks

Not faulting them in terms of business model, but in my experience their prices are consistently the highest by quite a margin.

Ever looked at mark worthington? They are higher mostly.....

Watchfinder play on being the best known grey who advertise on telly. The extra monkey is ‘worth’ the assurance of dealing with a big firm I guess....


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[peterpl]

^ LOL - ok if you think that when your products are only available from scalpers or gray dealers is fine thats ok

You obviously have no sense of business and how people may perceive that. Its fine Rolex sell all their watches that is NOT the issue. Think about it for a minute.

[glamorama]

First time using tap talk so hope this end up in right place.

I was thinking of how greys are going to manage in the tightening of credit that we see now. I believe there are several out there that have loans with the watches as security. If creditors start to get nervous and demand repayment we could see a brutal fire sale at some point. Sort of like margin calls in the stock market.


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[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by peterpl

^ LOL - ok if you think that when your products are only available from scalpers or gray dealers is fine thats ok

You obviously have no sense of business and how people may perceive that. Its fine Rolex sell all their watches that is NOT the issue. Think about it for a minute.

Really? You obviously have no sense of politeness. Maybe you can think about that.

But yes - I don’t actually think Rolex care. The scarceness of their popular watches if anything drives customers to the less popular lines that are available.

Sorry if that view differs from yours.


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Stevec14

Really? You obviously have no sense of politeness. Maybe you can think about that.

But yes - I don’t actually think Rolex care. The scarceness of their popular watches if anything drives customers to the less popular lines that are available.

Sorry if that view differs from yours.


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i agree with you totally here. Af far as the populars scarcity creates demand which creates more scarcity ... repeat, repeat, repeat.

For the others they, become more attractive than normal. Like the people still at the bar at 2am after everyone else went home already. If thats the choice then one will work.

[AK797]

WF have 4 blue Nautiluses at the moment unsold, most I've ever seen so maybe we are finally reaching a plateau, and so WF are trying to squeeze every last bit of margin while the going is still good. Brexit gets resolved in just a few months and a hard no deal Brexit is looking more likely and the markets won't like that. Or will the EU come to the Grey's rescue with a deal on the infamous backstop? Place your bets...

[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by AK797

WF have 4 blue Nautiluses at the moment unsold, most I've ever seen so maybe we are finally reaching a plateau, and so WF are trying to squeeze every last bit of margin while the going is still good. Brexit gets resolved in just a few months and a hard no deal Brexit is looking more likely and the markets won't like that.

Maybe, and it’s certainly interesting re the inventory, but if the pound tanks again in a poor brexit then I expect they will be sold to those from outside the uk. I suspect WF will be ok whatever happens with either the tourists or locals being in the driving seat albeit I get the markets issue.


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[Banks]

Originally Posted by AK797

WF have 4 blue Nautiluses at the moment unsold, most I've ever seen so maybe we are finally reaching a plateau, and so WF are trying to squeeze every last bit of margin while the going is still good. Brexit gets resolved in just a few months and a hard no deal Brexit is looking more likely and the markets won't like that. Or will the EU come the Grey's rescue with a deal on the infamous backstop? Place your bets...

If / when Brexit does finally occur, it will be very interesting to see how the UK watch market reacts medium term.

There has been a significant uptake in the purchasing and storing of gold in Ireland by UK buyers as a hedge.

I personally hope the EU does not roll back on the already agreed backstop arrangements.

[TheSearcher]

Watchfinder offered me a higher price online and then when I went into the shop I felt they was quite rude and came up with any and every excuse under the sun to lower their offer. They certainly profile you and try to take advantage of customers who may not understand the ins and outs of a Rolex watch. They also offered me a DJ41 for allegedly £1k below what they should have said before hiking the price back up when I was close to committing. The whole experience just seemed too sharkey to me. Sold my sub to a smaller local independent for £700 more than WF offered for a part ex and now buying a DJ41 from an AD as there isn’t too much difference in price from the greys. With hopefully a much better buying expierance.

Side note - I am surprised at how cheap/ no security WF “shops” are. When buying something luxury I expected a shop with more security and better set out than what seemed to be almost a cabin in Avery row

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Stevec14

Maybe, and it’s certainly interesting re the inventory, but if the pound tanks again in a poor brexit then I expect they will be sold to those from outside the uk. I suspect WF will be ok whatever happens with either the tourists or locals being in the driving seat albeit I get the markets issue.


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True the weak pound will get foreign buyers in but overall I think the economic mood will change for the worse with a hard Brexit.

Originally Posted by Banks

If / when Brexit does finally occur, it will be very interesting to see how the UK watch market reacts medium term.

There has been a significant uptake in the purchasing and storing of gold in Ireland by UK buyers as a hedge.

I personally hope the EU does not roll back on the already agreed backstop arrangements.

No one wants a hard border so I think the backstop is actually just posturing. I'd like to think a deal can be made, or Brexit will hurt Euro economies as well.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by AK797

No one wants a hard border so I think the backstop is actually just posturing. I'd like to think a deal can be made, or Brexit will hurt Euro economies as well.

think of british drinking culture when all the booze is now an import minus the british beer which they insist on serving sort of warm for some weird reason.

They will figure out a deal just based on that.

[R!$]

thats the "UK watch" phenomenon. I'm not buying it

[AK797]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

think of british drinking culture when all the booze is now an import minus the british beer which they insist on serving sort of warm for some weird reason.

They will figure out a deal just based on that.

If we did have a hard Brexit that precipitated a market decline then that would have some symmetry to it all as the unexpected referendum choice kickstarted this all off in the first place.

[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by AK797

True the weak pound will get foreign buyers in but overall I think the economic mood will change for the worse with a hard Brexit.







No one wants a hard border so I think the backstop is actually just posturing. I'd like to think a deal can be made, or Brexit will hurt Euro economies as well.

Yep - no disputing that at all, and it will be interesting to see what happens. I would maybe guess that the top 20% who are in a position to buy many of the luxury watches will be less impacted that those below however so whether that filters through remains to be seen.

Of course this is only my view and speculative.


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[Stevec14]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

think of british drinking culture when all the booze is now an import minus the british beer which they insist on serving sort of warm for some weird reason.

They will figure out a deal just based on that.

Now there is an inflammatory comment.....(there was supposed to be a
Laughing emoji here but I can’t bloody edit the post properly)


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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Stevec14

Now there is an inflammatory comment.....


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not complaining... there are 7 pubs i can throw a rock at and hit from my house. I like them all but so does everyone else

[Jacobson]

WF offered me £8K for a 2016 BLNR 5 weeks ago, was a very tempting offer.

In the end I sold it to a friend for the current RRP price.

[VicLeChic]

Originally Posted by AK797

. I'd like to think a deal can be made, or Brexit will hurt Euro economies as well.

The deal on the table won't be changed and won't pass the House of Commons. A no deal would be worse in terms of immediate GDP decline (-8% expected with possible loss of companies and EU workers fleeing abroad). I think the UK is heading towards a second referendum and will remain in the EU, eventually. Whatever happens I hope it's the best solution for both, all things considered. We kind of need each other, let's face it.

the world is your perpetual oyster

[Jackumi]

With regards to comments about tourists visiting the UK to take advantage of the weak pound. I am a Brit and reside in Japan and I have bought 3 Rolex watches there. During a visit to the UK last August I popped into a well know Rolex AD in Bluewater shopping centre to enquire if they had a 116613LB, but they had not. I asked when and if they might get one in and was told possibly in a few months' time, so I gave my name and contact information as I was planning a return trip back in November. In October I got an email informing me that they had the watch and that they would hold it for me for two weeks, they agreed to wait three weeks which was the earliest I could pick it up, so I sent 10% deposit. I picked up the watch in November and they provided me with the VAT rebate paper work. The VAT rebate was not the full 20% but 16% after they deducted their fee for providing that service and others in the rebate chain. So I got the Sub Bluesy for GPB 1,400 below list price. My point being that most tourists coming to the UK for high end watches are drawn by the lower prices due to the Sterling depreciation but also importantly the Vat rebate. Compare that to the same secondhand 2018 116613LB advertised today at WF which is GPB 1,100 over list price. From a tourist point of view I would not buy watches from greys in the UK, as I cannot get the VAT off, without that I can get a better deal in Japan.

[The Sub-lime One]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

their offers tanked recently like this month. I would check again. Multiple people have reported the same thing about december offers coming in way way low for Rolex... my only personal data point the 15.5k GBP buy/sell spread i mentioned and its a harder to source watch than the Rolex's

£8300-£8500 for the BLNR and £8100-£8300 for the LVc.

[james.l]

Originally Posted by The Sub-lime One

£8300-£8500 for the BLNR and £8100-£8300 for the LVc.

Interesting they are offering slightly more for blnr vs lvc. The lvc used to be higher

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[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by The Sub-lime One

£8300-£8500 for the BLNR and £8100-£8300 for the LVc.

man... i guess im the only one getting hosed on offers.

They always have a lot of stock of those two as well. They don't even list them all on the website most of the time for appearances.